Can someone explain to me how Nasus and Illao Aren't OP?

MirrorU·Dec 20, 2017·3 votes·1,810 views

Now I've had occasion to play against pretty much every champ in the game, and while most of us can agree there are some champs we do better or worse against based on who we're playing I can't for the life of me figure out how these 2 champs aren't considered broken. Ususally there's a push and pull, assassins are 1 shot damage but squishy, mages have long range 1 shot but squishy, tanks are tanky but usually have mid range damage, but somehow these 2 tanks hit harder then a truck, are near impossible to kill and even assassins get crushed by them. So I guess what I'm saying is where is the pull? They are tanky, 1 shot, and don't even need to build damage to become insanely damaging, who considered this a balanced creation?

54 Comments

redniwediSDec 20, 20174 votes

They are champions that do insanely well when you fight them on their terms, but are honestly pretty easy to fight on any other terms if you don't rush it. Just like all Juggernauts they punish mistakes but can't do a whole lot otherwise, so take a look at your own play and see what you're doing wrong.

MirrorUDec 20, 20171 votes

It's not even my play, this nasus even said and I'm quoting "I wasn't fed, I played safe the entire time". And his kdr was exactly even with everyone else, it's just I don't see any reason why there are champions that it takes whole teams to kill because they literally won't die 1v1, 1v2, or even 1v3. And if they're just tanky I get it, it's their special ability, but he isn't just tanky, he will literally 2 shot you once he gets over X stacks. So if you and I play and even game and at minute 15 you have 300 stacks on nasus, even if neither of us has any kills and I'm playing say darius you will still absolutely destroy me.

redniwediSDec 20, 20171 votes

If you can't fight Nasus 2v1 you did something wrong. If a Darius can't beat a Nasus in lane he most certainly did something wrong.

If Nasus is playing safe it is your job to control the minion waves and freeze the lane away from him. He can be as safe as he likes, but if you deny him farm he will fall behind. Killing him is just a means to an end, and that end is putting him behind. You don't have to kill him so long as you reach that end goal.

Once the lane phase ends he is still your responsibility to some extent, but your entire team should be managing him. He will try to get farm where he can and split push, so group up as 5 and force down objectives while he isn't with his team, and go back before he reaches your inhibitor. The team fight phase is where team play is needed, so if you're losing to him at that point it's not just your fault.

MirrorUDec 20, 20171 votes

The problem is let's say I put him behind right? And now he's down lets say 100 stacks, but now in trying to control him with a team we're losing objectives because it takes more than just me to keep him at bay and either hes gonna get stacks, or alternatively his team will go take objectives that the extra person that it takes to keep him from stacks is neglecting. It becomes a very 5v6 situation.

redniwediSDec 20, 20171 votes

Look, why don't you just start playing Nasus? Get a feel of his strengths and weaknesses from his point of view. I could keep trying to explain how you beat him, but you're too focused on what you can't do here. Just try him out and play him until you end up against people who know how to stop you. Learn from what they do to shut you down, and apply that to your own gameplay.

MirrorUDec 20, 20171 votes

Well the few issues with that is #1 I'm a support main, and #2 BE is so hard to get these days that until I get all my support champs I can't even think of buying anyone outside what's needed. But rest assured after I get them I will buy him and learn how to be unkillable like all the other nasi! It is nasi right? I'm not sure what to call the culture of tanky dogs.

redniwediSDec 20, 20171 votes

The word you're looking for is Susans.

I play Nasus myself, and believe me it won't take you long to learn just how killable you really are. You have exactly 0 tools for escaping a bad fight, so the moment you get out of position you are doomed. Plus most top lane mains like myself have faced Nasus when he was stronger than he is now, so if you run into one of us we'll be glad to teach you a lesson or two.

MirrorUDec 20, 20171 votes

What about his slow and circle thingy? Like you throw a slow on the person chasing u, then put down a circle in front of you and where you're going so the guy following has to walk through it, I always figured those were his escape tools beyond turning around and smacking me in the head for 80% of my life.

redniwediSDec 21, 20171 votes

The circle helps him fight, it would be best for him to save it in case the guy chasing catches him. The slow can help, but Nasus has no mobility, so a great many champions with mobility can catch up to him with ease.

The only time you're going to really escape is when there is one person chasing you and they are an immobile melee champion just like you are, then the slow is enough, otherwise the only real option is to stand and fight. That is part of why his ability to fight is so strong, it is his primary option when caught.

MirrorUDec 21, 20171 votes

Try the new predator rune on the boots, it really helps with getting away from stuff, I put it on my bard I can't even begin to tell how awesome it is on champs that need that little bit of boost.

Death by GlamourDec 20, 20173 votes

there is little point to complaining about it on the forums but yes nasas is stupidly broken now that all of the major lane bullies are in the gutter.

MirrorUDec 20, 20171 votes

I know it's a complaint but it's not like "he's broken because I can't beat him and everyone else can". It's literally EVERYONE hate him because he's nearly immortal past a certain amount of stacks regardless of how fed you are, or how far ahead you are. It comes down to this, if you don't win the game by the 25min mark and the enemy team has a nasus and you're playing dead even the enemy team will win simply because they'll have 1 nasus who requires an entire team to counter in 1 lane, and 4 people running down the other lane.

Death by GlamourDec 20, 20172 votes

i didnt mean to come over like that sorry

but i do completely agree with you

he is 1) completely uninteractive with that passive, you poke he just heals up and farms at the tower 2) too powerful with sheen, hes already outscaled most toplane fighters with 150 stacks and a sheen

MirrorUDec 20, 20171 votes

I agree, in fact I can't think of anyone who's ever disagreed with that, which is why I'm curious as to how riot hasn't evened him out.

Death by GlamourDec 20, 20173 votes

riot balance team has no idea what they are doing

MirrorUDec 20, 20171 votes

I agree.

AirKingNeoDec 20, 20172 votes

Since when did lane bullies get the gutter?

Death by GlamourDec 20, 20171 votes

rune changes

see riven renekton darius ect

AirKingNeoDec 21, 20171 votes

Riven was fine though.

Darius always sucked. Renekton needs fervor back like Rhaast does.

And what about Teemo, Akali, Pantheon, ect? The actual lane bullies.

CrisisEchoesDec 20, 20172 votes

kitekitekitekitekitekitekitekitekitekitekite (as an adc main can confirm any adc that has half a brain on even footing with a nasus will kite him to oblivion and back and then some)

MirrorUDec 20, 20171 votes

I tried doing that with bard built around speed and with portals and everything he still 2 shot me.

CrisisEchoesDec 21, 20171 votes

bard =/= adc

MirrorUDec 21, 20171 votes

It's kind of a give and take there, on the one hand adc's definitely have a better chance of killing him with their damage, on the other they don't have the frequency in stuns that bard does. So it's really just a matter of how well does nasus play.

MohawkBirdDec 21, 20171 votes

{quoted}

kitekitekitekitekitekitekitekitekitekitekite (as an adc main can confirm any adc that has half a brain on even footing with a nasus will kite him to oblivion and back and then some)

Depends on what ADC you are. Wither is no joke, especially considering that it also slows attack speed.

CrisisEchoesDec 21, 20171 votes

any adc in the game can build qss and kill nasus in the window it gives you unless you are super behind.

Mandalorian 117Dec 21, 20172 votes

For Illuoi, she does all physical damage. Build armor, she's zilch, nothing, zero. You also need to do your best to dodge tentacles and prioritize the tentacles on the walls. Also stay behind minions as much as you can. Her E does nothing and goes on cd of it hits a minion. And watch her mana bar. Mana is her life blood.

For susan, it is tricky. The main thing you need to do is deny him of farm as much as you can. That's how he becomes so powerful. Keep poking and kiting him and he isn't much. Tri force is almost always a first item for him, so he's not that tanky at the start. Keep shutting him up early and he'll struggle later. Also later, keep and eye on him. If he's behind on farm he will try to get it back. That's why split pushes so much.

Really both of these are so reliant on getting fed. They need items and farm to get a massive power spike. Keep denying them of those things, they will struggle. Also tank shredders like Vi, Vayne, and Kayn, fiora, and tahm kench can give them a hard time as they cut through armor or deal max health true damage. Fiora and Tahm can be a bit more difficult, but can squash them if played right. And as for susan, Teemo and Quinn. Their blinds are atrocious for him.

MirrorUDec 21, 20171 votes

Thanks for the tips, much appreciated.

Mandalorian 117Dec 21, 20171 votes

Also nasus really needs to be on point with his Q. Even if he seems to have an even kdr and farm as everyone else, he was probably getting those kills by hitting them with his Q. That's actually the secret. If he sees a low health target, he WILL Q them to get stacks. I guess the main thing here is don't respect them. Just keep them down and deny them of anything.

MirrorUDec 21, 20171 votes

Good thinking, you know a while back riot was toying with the idea of making minions killable by both teams, as in cs and denial, I think that with that kind of implementation champions like nasus would really take a big hit.

Mandalorian 117Dec 21, 20171 votes

Interesting idea, but that would probably lead to more troubles than it's worth.

MirrorUDec 21, 20171 votes

I think that was the conclusion they came to as well.

Mountain WardenDec 21, 20172 votes

Nasus is meant to be a raid boss late game. But if he's not fed, he's very killable and won't be doing much damage. And if he is fed, try to keep him crowd controlled in team fights while you dispatch all the squishies around him. If your team lacks CC when the opposing team has a nasus, you shot yourself in the foot at champ select. If you find yourself in that situation, the best thing you can do is avoid engaging him. You can absolutely win a match without killing nasus.

MirrorUDec 21, 20171 votes

It's so funny that you say that because I was just thinking to myself "you know if this were any other video game there would be minions for regular champs, then nasus would be a boss, and then there would be a level boss who would end up being slightly less hard to kill than nasus". lol :)

TheDeviceDec 21, 20172 votes

Nasus is broken in low ranks due to lack of coordination/cooperation. You also kindof have to play/pick around him (which isn't a fair thing to have to do. Thats too polarizing) and make sure your team has picks to deal with him.

I don't like when people say Nasus isn't broken because either A - they've been boosted to a point where decent players can deal with nasus B - They play nasus and get boosted off his brokeness in lower ranks to higher ranks where he becomes irrelevant and they just choose somebody else at that point.

MirrorUDec 21, 20171 votes

Yea tell me about it, I have the pleasure of facing him in normals where it's anyones guess if you're fighting against someone new or a match of 5 diamonds.

AdamFrostyBeastFeb 14, 20181 votes

he is broken in all elos. I just played a high plat (d1 mmr) picked renekton against him, pooped all over him, even got twitch to dive him 2 times under his own tower. It didn't matter at all. Once he builds frozen heart and has 100-150 stacks you can no longer stay in lane solo vs him. His ult cd needs a gigantic nerf, so does his passive in later ranks. Executioner's calling is a great deal but in teamfights you can't focus nasus just because the dog is so over buffed right now. There is no loss for nasus if his team has half a brain and break even against their lane opponents. The only reason we won the game was because all their lanes lost hard

Best Trynd NADec 21, 20172 votes

Diamond Toplaner here. Most ppl lose to Nasus because they pick the wrong champions.

I just say 2 things. Olaf and Trundle.

Olaf is the hardest counter to Nasus without any doubt. Nonstop Axe Harass, True Damage Harass, Sustain, great teamfighter, built in QSS for wither on R. Olaf shits on everything nasus does, actually. Hes feared by many Nasus players for a reason. And now with the sorcery tree, free AD, arcane Comet and Manaflow band he became even harder than before for nasus.

Trundle is not as good as Olaf but still good.

About Illaoi... not sure if its true but I heard they have problems against tryndamere. Hard Scaling champ and his R is a nasty counter to Illaois R since he just can stand in the middle of all tentactles but doesnt die and if he doesnt kill Illaoi he will spin away.

MirrorUDec 21, 20171 votes

Thank you sir, I will most definitely give a good hard look to using an oalf if I'm ever put top against a nasus.

AirKingNeoDec 20, 20171 votes

because they suck at teamfighting and splitpushing is a dead strategy.

MirrorUDec 20, 20171 votes

Yea it is, seems like they have to give them a weakness of some sort like "if you tickle them behind the knee they instantly go B".

Baron BarianDec 20, 20171 votes

Certain early game champs can destroy Nasus at the start, and he's especially prone to getting camped, especially when your own jungler is completely useless and never ganks for you once.

As for Illaoi, it's just a matter of knowing when you can and can't engage her, especially in cases where you out number her. She's most likely easier to deal with if your team has good teamwork, which is rare in low elo.

MirrorUDec 20, 20171 votes

I agree with everything you just said. In an unrelated matter illao told me to call her mistress or her tentacles would punish me.

HalcyonDwellerDec 20, 20171 votes

{quoted}

In an unrelated matter illao told me to call her mistress or her tentacles would punish me.

lol that's hilarious XD If you feel particularly offended by it you can report them after the game, but honestly it seems to me like it's just funny trash talk.

MirrorUDec 20, 20171 votes

My will is her command, the tentacles make me obey :)

AR URFDec 20, 20171 votes

I cannot win lane Vs those two. Illaoi just retreats to her tower at 0/3 KD and hides behind her tentacles. Nasus is the same.

MirrorUDec 20, 20171 votes

I have the same issue, they seem to just outscale me without really doing anything.

SuperLuigiLXIVDec 20, 20171 votes

If you're looking to deal with Nasus as a support main, I'll tell you now, you need to run champions that can chain CC on him for as long as possible.

The major weakness that Nasus has is that he HAS to be in melee range of something to sustain himself. Leaving top lane issues aside, this is what makes him manageable to an ADC and their support. The key is how much control you can exert on Nasus with your support.

As far as I've seen, Thresh is your absolute best pick to deal with Nasus. Between the knockdown and slow of Flay, the lockdown of the hook, the slow of the Box, and the power to lantern anyone out that he tries to flash on, you're fully capable of holding Nasus back by yourself with Thresh. You won't kill him, of course. But you can keep him peeled forever. Other good options are Janna with her whirlwind and slow, Sion for his combo slow/armor shred, his knockups, his %health damage burst, and I would even argue Vel'koz, who lacks CC a bit compared to the others, but has the range and the true damage pops to make chasing him down a painful prospect.

Oh, and Zac. If there was ever a reason to play support Zac, it's to fuck up the doge's day.

MirrorUDec 20, 20171 votes

Those are both reasonable picks, the best one I've ever come across when fighting him was alistar, he can't get near him, and even if he does he will immediately be stunned. But most importantly he can't 1 shot him.

kaironenDec 20, 20171 votes

Nasus and illaoi are easy to peal and to gank (you have to play the ganks right vs illaoi but I think most illaoi just push lane. She has no escapes and dies easily to cc, even if you need to rotate them around due to her ult. However, I think those 2 champions are actually one of the better ones atm. I don't think illaoi or nasus is broken, but the keystone, kleptomancy, has been breaking so many champions (looking at you ezreal) so it's not strange that people who use this keystone well are really strong right now. I honestly hate facing illaoi and her design has always been stronger in low elo and weaker in high elo.

MirrorUDec 20, 20171 votes

Maybe it's just the tincile strength of her tentacles :)