Zed: Passive does not longer work on minions
Lee Sin: Q's cooldown increased to 14 to all levels. If Q lands, the CD is reduced by 2/3/4/5/6 secs (minimum 3.5 seconds CD).
EDIT: I also agree that Lee's nerf may be too harsh. Numbers can be tweaked,
Wait you mean a reasonable post that isn't straight QQ about either champ? +1.
IMO Lee's spells should all have their damage values reduced and when he AAs you with his passive up it deals a LOT of bonus damage, so he actually has to commit and juggle his passive stacks to be effective
Doesn't fix that Zed can instaclear waves to splitpush, take towers instantly with BoRk, and then 1v1 anyone that comes to stop him.
Make Zed's shurikens a collision skillshot and not a pass-through. That should be the pay off for allowing Zed superior repositioning. If you want those Shurikens to be worth something, you better spend that resource to do it.
I'm fine with the Lee change, but zed has way more going for him than that change can fix
for instance, his ability/auto/infinite wave clear that makes dedicated wave clear champs seem inadequate
Personally, I would like to see a "Q deals 50% or even 0 damage to minions" So he has to choose between poke and waveclear and can't do both and then kill you under tower
This is... a really good idea. Huh. Faith in boards restored.
nah just ruin him like the 30 or so other champs that they gutted
I agree with the zed part. Thats actually really elegant. The only issue is that it implies he doesn't hold contempt for minions, but you know he totally does. I prefer something else because I am loathe to sacrifice narrative for balance, but that could work. I'd sooner lower his base attack speed, but revoking the passive could work.
As for Lee Sin, I'm the sort of guy who loved the rework they proposed last year. Minutia aside, I would reward/require him to weaving autoattacks better, reduce damage on spells, and making hopping to a ward (using it for mobility rather than safeguarding) cost more energy than hopping to minions or allies. I really liked the "passive increases to 80% then 100% Attack speed as level increases" part of the trashed lee sin changes. It sounded like Wing Chun Lee Sin flurry beatdowns. I was mad I didn't get to do those as lee sin.
Zed's passive should never have worked on minions. I don't know why he has that.
Lee Sin often doesn't even need to hit his Qs. Part of the whole problem is that when he misses one skill, he has more skills to use to compensate for this mistake. He misses he Q, he drops a ward, jumps behind you, then kicks you into his team.
why cant either of them get gutted like other champs do?
OH they sell more skins forgot
Pretty solid nerfs actually. +1
These are actual,y decent changes
I don't think these nerfs would solve anything. The nerf to Zed would maybe make a bad Zed miss a few more CS in lane, but nothing else, while the nerf to Lee would not affect his ganking or early dueling, since he already pretty much only gets a single Q off in both situations. It would nerf Lee's lategame, which is honestly not that great already.
I think there should be a cap on how far Zed can jump to his Ulti shadow. You know, make "all in" actually effing mean something to him.
I like these ideas.
There was this brilliant idea somewhere about Zed (that means it isn't mine, I saw it somewhere). Make his ult shadow swap usable either only when he gets a kill or when his deathmark deals damage.
Remove ward hopping from Lee. I heard that it was a bug that they never fixed.
I think your Solution for Lee could be nice, but I disagree about his past nerfs being too much. If they were too much, he wouldn't be pick/ban right now.
Zed's fix needs to either involve increasing his energy cost or energy regen. The problem in laning against him is that he can outpush and out-damage almost any other laner lest they be resourceless. He has so much poke and damage, with basically no resource concerns. He builds only one source of damage (AD) and building an early Hexdrinker alongside his already superior laning presence makes it so you cannot fight back.
Then you throw in his strong roaming potential and turn-to-kill potential after killing your turret...I'm just saying that when your turret has more CS than you do because you've been forced back so many times due to going OOM, it's kind of absurd. And no, mana regen items don't help.
I think rework some items and add new ones will solve a part of the problem
Lee change needs work. Cripples his jungling. Not really convinced it does anything to what people hate about him -- landed Q still death, missed Q still super safe.
Agree, nice ideas
Zed:
Lee Sin:
The Zed one should be a given. He's a melee assassin but no reason he should be easier to last hit with than Annie..
Give them mana.
gg fixed
I think giving his passive on minions a cooldown would work too. The Lee nerf is a good idea too.
IMO just remove ward hopping and change the energy costs to mean something. Then he actually has drawbacks to missing q and when he uses it he has to all in you. Keeping his damage keeps him relevant and not another urgot.
That would be brilliant
