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"Aatrox rework is total garbage, revert it, he was fine before, he's completely unusable now"

Verxint··8 votes·1,775 views

(2 months ago) "Warwick rework is total garbage, revert it, he was fine before, he's completely unusable now" (6 months ago) "Yorick rework is total garbage, revert it, he was fine before, he's completely unusable now" (8 months ago) "Ryze rework is total garbage, revert it, he was fine before, he's completely unusable now" (1 year ago) "Taric rework is total garbage, revert it, he was fine before, he's completely unusable now" (15 months ago) "Poppy rework is total garbage, revert it, she was fine before, he's completely unusable now" (18 months ago) "Fiora rework is total garbage, revert it, she was fine before, he's completely unusable now" "Gangplank rework is total garbage, revert it, he was fine before, he's completely unusable now" (2.5 years ago) "Sion rework is total garbage, revert it, he was fine before, he's completely unusable now"

thinking

24 Comments

Sasogwa3 votes

It's not the same. The other reworks are mechanic changing. A lot of things in the way to play the champion are different. But Aatrox? Same Q, pretty much same W except some value change, same thing for E, and R. There's just the passive that says you can't revive if you haven't stacked bloodwell (gl in lategame teamfights where everyone dies in 2 seconds) and that's a gimmicky bonus as boost that requires you to keep fighting your opponent else your steroid's gonna get fucked. And it will be if your opponent has 2 braincells. Overall, pretty much nothing has changed in mechanics except he's more garbage. Compare that to Warwick? whole different kit. Yorick? completely different kit. Ryze? Idk i guess it's different in the way you have to roll your face on the keyboard probably. The others? Real reworks as well.

This. is not a rework. This is some garbage value changes that don't actually change any problem of his kit and take away his strengths more than his weaknesses. On an already garbage champ, well... You see the results. It's not like it's an incredible mechanic change that takes years to master on the passive management. Nah.. nothing's really changed except some numbers, and he's bad.

Sèx Craved Eve1 votes

Just let it go Sasogwa. This guy probably didn't play Aatrox before the rework. He's probably still not played him because he doesn't want to lose games. Who can blame him?

Verxint1 votes

The change to total AD scaling and the addition of a power fluctuation passive alone is a significant change.

The fact that you insist he must play the same when obviously playing the same is achieving worse results is proof of what I'm saying - he is different, even if it's subtle, and once people spend time and Riot nudges some numbers (which is always necessary), you're going to find out that he's not nearly as weak as you think.

People continually expect to play updated champions just like they were before the update and then get surprised when it doesn't work. The same thing happens with "lighter scale" reworks, like with Gragas and Veigar.

Do you really think in less than 24 hours you've exhausted every single possibility and have proven without a shadow of a doubt that Aatrox cannot be useful with this kit in any circumstances? If the answer is not yes, then stop saying the changes were bad and say that you haven't figured them out yet.

Sèx Craved Eve1 votes

{quoted}

The change to total AD scaling and the addition of a power fluctuation passive alone is a significant change.

The fact that you insist he must play the same when obviously playing the same is achieving worse results is proof of what I'm saying - he is different, even if it's subtle, and once people spend time and Riot nudges some numbers (which is always necessary), you're going to find out that he's not nearly as weak as you think.

People continually expect to play updated champions just like they were before the update and then get surprised when it doesn't work. The same thing happens with "lighter scale" reworks, like with Gragas and Veigar.

Do you really think in less than 24 hours you've exhausted every single possibility and have proven without a shadow of a doubt that Aatrox cannot be useful with this kit in any circumstances? If the answer is not yes, then stop saying the changes were bad and say that you haven't figured them out yet.

The passive decays too quickly with no way to build it when you're in a bad matchup. End of discussion. Drop it.

Verxint1 votes

Or....

-Increase the duration -Increase the power of the buff itself -Make a stacking duration buff for successive hits -Give it a tapering movespeed boost every time you successfully extend the duration -Reduce his Q cooldown to make him stickier -Make spellcasts while passive is triggered extend the duration -Reduce the number of spellcasts to activate

People like you who say "this doesn't work remove it" before the update has been out for 24 hours, when riot says they will even hotfix if he's underperforming too much, are the ones I'm talking about. You make no argument, you just say "I can't make it work with less than a day to learn it, so it must be completely, utterly, unequivocally, irrefutably bad and can never be good.

You think that the brief experience you've had since the patch yesterday is somehow enough proof to go around telling people "end of discussion, drop it". What exactly makes you such a god at the game's mechanics to know something so strongly? Again, have you tried literally every combination of items and play pattern in the last 24 hours and can prove that none of them achieve any result? The odds are you haven't.

Since you haven't examined every possibility, don't tell people this is the end of discussion.

Sett up 4my gank1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dont be Ahritard,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uVR02Eoz,comment-id=000300010000,timestamp=2017-03-09T18:03:59.017+0000)

The passive decays too quickly with no way to build it when you're in a bad matchup. End of discussion. Drop it.

Then maybe hes meant to be picked later in the draft into a decent or good matchup? Not every champion has to be good no matter the circumstance, if you get counter picked you get counter picked simple as that, not to mention don't worry about the passive? With the innate sustain and clearing ability with E you should be able to farm relatively well in a bad matchup anyways, maybe not against jayce but thats jayce.

Sèx Craved Eve1 votes

{quoted}

Then maybe hes meant to be picked later in the draft into a decent or good matchup? Not every champion has to be good no matter the circumstance, if you get counter picked you get counter picked simple as that, not to mention don't worry about the passive? With the innate sustain and clearing ability with E you should be able to farm relatively well in a bad matchup anyways, maybe not against jayce but thats jayce.

The problem is EVERY meta champion that's spammed 24/7 is a bad matchup for him. He was a B-tier champion. If they do anything to him now aside from fixing the passive falloff, he's going to be broken as shit. This rework is a fucking disaster.

Sasogwa1 votes

{quoted}

The change to total AD scaling and the addition of a power fluctuation passive alone is a significant change.

The fact that you insist he must play the same when obviously playing the same is achieving worse results is proof of what I'm saying - he is different, even if it's subtle, and once people spend time and Riot nudges some numbers (which is always necessary), you're going to find out that he's not nearly as weak as you think.

People continually expect to play updated champions just like they were before the update and then get surprised when it doesn't work. The same thing happens with "lighter scale" reworks, like with Gragas and Veigar.

Do you really think in less than 24 hours you've exhausted every single possibility and have proven without a shadow of a doubt that Aatrox cannot be useful with this kit in any circumstances? If the answer is not yes, then stop saying the changes were bad and say that you haven't figured them out yet.

No, but it is highly unlikely and the reworks you have quoted to compare are irrelevant as they are much larger scale. And I would say that Veigar's rework was of a larger scale than this "rework". And it was actually garbage at the beginning, before they buffed Q speed, Q range, W falling speed, E range and E delay. (yet that's not the point here). Larger scale because his Q was changed into a skillshot blocked by minions, which completely changed his gameplay in lane ; E delay and W and cd buffs completely shifted his identity from a reliable burst anticarry threat to a generic bursty teamfight control mage.

All right, let's look at Aatrox changes. First off, let's look at 'old aatrox' problems.

  1. he gets kited to oblivion
  2. his Q has a huge CD, is impactful but countered by every little CC there is.
  3. his base stats are bad, he dies instantly if he builds damage and does no damage if he builds tank (on top of not tanking that much anyway)
  4. his %health costs are annoying for a health build. It's basically antisynergistic to build health on him.

What has the rework changed?

  1. Well he still gets kited. And dies. He's still melee after all, so it's not like he's gonna do a magical thing to counter that. To be noted, slight increase in the slow percentage of E. Interesting, but quite pathetic if we realize we're in the mobility overlords meta.
  2. No change at all in the QOL of Q
  3. So far I haven't discovered a build that would make me tanky. Or deal sufficient damage while being decently tanky.
  4. That's the big change! But overall, damage of W was nerfed, healing of W was nerfed. It's good if you have lots of health ! But really, is there a point in stacking health? This is the meta of damage. Aatrox doesn't offer much in terms of utility. Building tank won't make him broken, he'll just deal no damage and then die. He doesn't have health scaling damage. Arguably item 3748 but that's still not enough at all. If tank busting items weren't busted (lul), maybe he'd actually be decent tbh. But since he can't tank crap because tanking in 2017 lul, he can't be good in lategame, especially if we take in account the previous problems (mostly, too kiteable).

The ONLY way he would be good right now is by outright destroying the shit out of people in laning phase. If his base stats are so broken that it overcomes the fact his kit is innately bad (understand : not an overloaded piece of crap like Riot loves to make them), then he can be somewhat viable. Seen him several times in lategame scenarios. He's not oustandingly broken at stat-checking. I'm not sure he can beat the powerhouses of 1v1 (Tryndamere Jax Fiora MasterYi ) ; although all of those have better stickiness than him.

In any case, it's not a good rework. It has definite flaws in it. The champion simply can not function in today's metagame. When we compare that to all the reworks you mentioned, all of them have a solid identity and function well. And their viability is mostly defined by numbers. Though arguably Sion and Yorick would have trouble in the current meta since nobody can tank well and their stickiness/reliability isn't the best.

Gamer Life1 votes

The rework on Aatrox hasnt been completely finished yet, as Riot have said they ran out of time to fit everything they wanted to do to him into the patch, so we all should see more changes to him over next few patches.

Verxint4 votes

Try reading the post instead of just the title.

Gamer Life1 votes

{quoted}

Try reading the post instead of just the title.

what is the point of your thread then?

some people just dont like change, cant please everyone

Verxint2 votes

To make the point that people cry about every rework, claim their champion is unusable, and every time they get proven wrong.

Gamer Life1 votes

{quoted}

To make the point that people cry about every rework, claim their champion is unusable, and every time they get proven wrong.

as i said your cant please everyone

Mizuki Zahra1 votes

Galio ?

Verxint2 votes

I figured he's not out yet, so I shouldn't include him. But we already have people saying "OMG WHY CHANGE GALIO HURR".

I guarantee you his rework will come out and people will start saying how he's ruined and doesn't work anymore. Has happened every time.

Mizuki Zahra1 votes

people want change but don't want it at the same time I guess I mean Caitlyn Graves Ashe got reworked as well

Verxint1 votes

Graves and Cait also had naysayers crying that their champion was ruined.

Mizuki Zahra2 votes

true lol I mean I main lux and wu all others I really don't care how they get changed but if lux and wu got changed I guess ill have to live with it lol

Sèx Craved Eve1 votes

Go try Aatrox, op. Then come back with that insufferable smarm.

Mizuki Zahra2 votes

dude hes not complaining about the rework it sin ""'s hes stating by his post that no matter what gets reworked the forums will be full of people complaining its a sarcasm post

Verxint1 votes

To give this guy credit, he knew I was being a smartass.

The thing is, when I play a champion I have little experience on, who was never well understood anyway, and just got changed, and I don't do well, I assume the problem is with me, not the champion.

Same thing if I play a champion that I used to play but it got updated, like when the Graves update came out. When I did poorly in my first games with the updated Graves, I didn't come to the forums and cry that he was totally worthless, I applied the ancient art of critical thinking to see what I could do differently that might work better. Eventually, I figured out how to use him. It took me a lot longer than 24 hours.

Verxint2 votes

Just like how they told me to go play Warwick/Yorick/Ryze/Fiora/every other reworked champ, as if the inability to immediately succeed with an updated champion somehow proves that the champion must be unviable.

Perhaps people should spend more than 24 hours trying things before they cry that it's ruined?

Graves was broken AF when he first got updated but people kept saying he was trash because they didn't have instant success with him.

Shadòw1 votes

sad but true

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