in my eyes pyke is a successful launch

Morgy Morgy·Jun 11, 2018·2 votes·948 views

because unlike kaisa, zoe, rakan (who i love immensely by the way, but still), he has a clear purpose and role besides just "fuck it he does everything".

6 Comments

AzadetheJun 11, 20182 votes

He does do it all...... kind of.

He can play any role but adc, and he can even sort of proxy for that with his uncharged Q.

He's a Tier 1 Jungler, Tier 1-2 Mid Assassin, and can be at least a Tier 2 -3 Top. His support play is just different in that it's basically Q spam, where the other roles use his whole kit more.

GraviroseJun 11, 20181 votes

{quoted}

He does do it all...... kind of.

He can play any role but adc, and he can even sort of proxy for that with his uncharged Q.

He's a Tier 1 Jungler, Tier 1-2 Mid Assassin, and can be at least a Tier 2 -3 Top. His support play is just different in that it's basically Q spam, where the other roles use his whole kit more.

What do you mean his other roles use his kit more? I don't see how you could compare a duo lane to a solo lane. Where are these stats coming from? OPGG, literally shows that Pyke is a tier 5 jungler and tier 4 support. i won't question your statistics about solo lane Pyke since I've never seen it, but must be different for you. Also how does Pyke compete with other tier 1 junglers lol?

AzadetheJun 11, 20182 votes

In support if you try to E in and go all in like a Leona, Thresh, you tend to feed like them too. If you want to be a productive support, your goal is to leave your kit off cooldown and just "fish" for hooks. That's why Pyke is doing bad as support: too many think his kit is all in. Go watch Wolf play Pyke. He "Fishes" until the right moment, and his team abuses it.

Yesterday I literally owned a Pyke counter team using this method ( Sivir Morgana Kayn Annie Garen )

I was the support. Literally waited for Morg/Sivir to blow their Shields to Q. Pulled Morg under my turret. Killed her. When Kayn tried to kill my MF adc under my turret..... killed him. If your kit is ready to use at the right times, you have far better lane pressure and overall game pressure.

Pyke doesn't have enough HP to be a diver..... which should be a hint to use his E when he has an out. Not when he thinks he can stun someone and someone "might" help kill them.

What I'm discussing here is Micro play. It's why Pyke's stats are still sub 50%, even versus champs like LeeSin which he absolutely counters. People all in him, thinking they are going to pull out a miracle on semi slow attacking champ, with little to no in combat sustain, and put their abilities on cooldown at the wrong times. When played all in like that, he only has W up when he's in face tank distance to the champs. And at face tank distance, they can see and attack him.... It's not a good strategy.

In Jungle he clears like any other jungler.... except he can invade unseen and with FAR less risk than Evelynn . In a duel as a jungler though, he DOES use E regularly, because he can handle 1v1's, and sometimes the best escape route is through, not away from the jungler, or in some cases, Eing away from a chasing jungler just simply creates opportunities to stun or at least make them back off. In Support, you have a minion wave making E less viable.

You also use the uncharged Q more in Jungle, because it does more damage and is a slow.

In Team fights he should always default back to a Q spammer, to keep HP's low and force someone to be caught out. If you dive a team to stun them, 9 times out of 10 you will die before your E even stuns. You also risk having R disrupted and do nothing, killing you, not them.

The key to T1 jungling with him vs monsters is this: item 1039 You don't just auto attack one mob down. You auto attack them all after skilling, stunning, with red buff. You Orb to reduce damage taken. This creates a substantial sustain cycle on ALL camps for him. (I generally Red > Krugs > Scuttle/Wraiths depending on opposing jungle for example). By the time he's on Scuttles he's back to full HP if done correctly, and then you gank level 3-4, or you keep farming the other side.

On your first back you should have about 1200G unless you got a kill, which is more.

item 3077 After that, I generally start working toward a item 3025 even though he's a weak base AD champ, because having both aoe items about HALFS the clear time, and this puts you at 30-35% CDR by about 10 minutes. Really fast mobility. Really fast clears, and tankiness to sustain in a fight long enough to figure out if you can W out or if you should just stay and finish the fight. By the time you start working a item 3147 you have 40-45% CDR in about 5700G.

I generally average 9-12 CS/minute depending on what part of the game I'm in. So he's no slow grinder. I generally STILL level 6 before bot lane does and only shortly after Mid does.

And if someone tries counter jungling me, I can easily counter jungle them, and if they encounter me, I can always get away if need be, or ping a team ambush and make them cry. Or I can just play with them in a couple combos and kill them. He has one of the best dueling kits in the game, because it plays into how pros play: Poke, evade, regroup, Poke some more, THEN commit to a kill. Just because I leave a fight with W or E doesn't mean I'm done with them. I go back and poke some more after I heal. If I can commit, I hook and pull and shutter what's left of them.

People are still learning Pyke. Unfortunately, like Ornn, they are learning him WRONG.

GraviroseJun 11, 20181 votes

{quoted}

In support if you try to E in and go all in like a Leona, Thresh, you tend to feed like them too. If you want to be a productive support, your goal is to leave your kit off cooldown and just "fish" for hooks. That's why Pyke is doing bad as support: too many think his kit is all in. Go watch Wolf play Pyke. He "Fishes" until the right moment, and his team abuses it.

Yesterday I literally owned a Pyke counter team using this method ( )

I was the support. Literally waited for Morg/Sivir to blow their Shields to Q. Pulled Morg under my turret. Killed her. When Kayn tried to kill my MF adc under my turret..... killed him. If your kit is ready to use at the right times, you have far better lane pressure and overall game pressure.

Pyke doesn't have enough HP to be a diver..... which should be a hint to use his E when he has an out. Not when he thinks he can stun someone and someone "might" help kill them.

What I'm discussing here is Micro play. It's why Pyke's stats are still sub 50%, even versus champs like which he absolutely counters. People all in him, thinking they are going to pull out a miracle on semi slow attacking champ, with little to no in combat sustain, and put their abilities on cooldown at the wrong times. When played all in like that, he only has W up when he's in face tank distance to the champs. And at face tank distance, they can see and attack him.... It's not a good strategy.

In Jungle he clears like any other jungler.... except he can invade unseen and with FAR less risk than . In a duel as a jungler though, he DOES use E regularly, because he can handle 1v1's, and sometimes the best escape route is through, not away from the jungler, or in some cases, Eing away from a chasing jungler just simply creates opportunities to stun or at least make them back off. In Support, you have a minion wave making E less viable.

You also use the uncharged Q more in Jungle, because it does more damage and is a slow.

In Team fights he should always default back to a Q spammer, to keep HP's low and force someone to be caught out. If you dive a team to stun them, 9 times out of 10 you will die before your E even stuns. You also risk having R disrupted and do nothing, killing you, not them.

The key to T1 jungling with him vs monsters is this: You don't just auto attack one mob down. You auto attack them all after skilling, stunning, with red buff. You Orb to reduce damage taken. This creates a substantial sustain cycle on ALL camps for him. (I generally Red > Krugs > Scuttle/Wraiths depending on opposing jungle for example). By the time he's on Scuttles he's back to full HP if done correctly, and then you gank level 3-4, or you keep farming the other side.

On your first back you should have about 1200G unless you got a kill, which is more.

After that, I generally start working toward a even though he's a weak base AD champ, because having both aoe items about HALFS the clear time, and this puts you at 30-35% CDR by about 10 minutes. Really fast mobility. Really fast clears, and tankiness to sustain in a fight long enough to figure out if you can W out or if you should just stay and finish the fight. By the time you start working a you have 40-45% CDR in about 5700G.

I generally average 9-12 CS/minute depending on what part of the game I'm in. So he's no slow grinder. I generally STILL level 6 before bot lane does and only shortly after Mid does.

And if someone tries counter jungling me, I can easily counter jungle them, and if they encounter me, I can always get away if need be, or ping a team ambush and make them cry. Or I can just play with them in a couple combos and kill them. He has one of the best dueling kits in the game, because it plays into how pros play: Poke, evade, regroup, Poke some more, THEN commit to a kill. Just because I leave a fight with W or E doesn't mean I'm done with them. I go back and poke some more after I heal. If I can commit, I hook and pull and shutter what's left of them.

People are still learning Pyke. Unfortunately, like Ornn, they are learning him WRONG.

Your reply still doesn' t really say anything about how youv'e placed Pyke in higher tiers when he doesn't even show up for mid/top stats on OPGG? Your explanation is very situational, if people are getting outjungled by Pyke koodos to you pal, you truly are outskilling your enemies.

Where are you getting your stats? Hopefully not just a conclusion of your own Pyke games? Your account doesn't even have games played this season, which I'm assuming because this is your forums account?

OPGG shows that Pyke literally only has a higher win rate over Kindred in the jungle, 51% > 49% and is literally shown as a tier 5 jungler. If he was a tier 1 jungler wouldn't it be seen in higher elo a lot more frequently or in general?

Also you failed to even mention his solo lane play? You mentioned his support playstyle, which I do agree with you on, fishing for hooks and going off those. However, what else would Pyke do lol? I don't think that mechanic changes for any role Pyke is placed in? You aren't a damage pick nor a tank, you would get focused instantly and die before resetting your ult, which is literally what Pyke does - he cleans up with execute. Now, you said that other roles use his kit more, but that really not because of the champs role, but the position they are in no? Comparing Pyke jungle to Pyke support are two different scenarios, I wouldn't say his support playstyle doesn't use his kit at all thats extreme and would make his kit unreliable in the support role lol.

Lastly,

People are still learning Pyke. Unfortunately, like Ornn, they are learning him WRONG.

How can you say something like this when you literally called Pyke out as tier 1 jungle and said his support role doesn't use his entire kit. I didn't realize you were a Pyke mastermind?

AzadetheJun 11, 20181 votes

I'm just going to say this: Cite a laner who you think Pyke can't lane against, or is prone to a junglers' gank on. I will gladly tell you how to win that fight, and cs that lane.

His Solo Lane abuse of his Passive is monstrous.... and can almost entirely reset his health after a skirmish.

I can duel a Illaoi with Pyke.

Ofc I'm not taking my info from Op.GG etc. Players don't know how to play him yet, and that's not uncommon, so the stats are going to reflect that. Even Kayn when he came out had similar rates of success to Pyke. That's why he largely got away with no real nerfs, and in fact got buffs, to the state where he's now a Meta Jungler who has a significantly high jungle pick rate. That didn't stop GOOD Kayns from going 30/1 in his first incarnation pre buffs....

Riot doesn't give players enough time to learn a champ before changing them.

I am using my own experience with him, giving I'm pushing an average KDA of 14/2/11 on him and 84.37% Win rate on him in 32 games, as a Diamond III-II player.

I generally pick up champs pretty fast mechanically.

And yeah. I make a new account when champion reworks/reveals are released with difficult play, like Evelynn or Zoe It's better to learn them in an environment that has no ramifications on you than to play them on your main account.

Pyke and Ornn weren't those champs. Those champs I outperformed the averages immediately, because of their player friendly natures. But even if a champ is player friendly, it doesn't mean two things:

-Players will pick up on the right way to play them

-Teams will immediately adjust to their existence.

By and large, bad win rates on new champs usually isn't caused by the player playing the new champ. It's caused by unrealistic expectations of the other players on their team, for the new champ to carry them or make superpowered decisions/ mobility. They don't know very well what champs synergize the best, or the tolerance level of a new kit to stay in a fight for any certain durability. As a result, they make bad plays by expecting the wrong thresholds of play for a new champ.

You'll notice most Pykes actually do get good kdas, CS, assists, warding etc. But a lot of them are losing with 20/4 scores. So why are they losing? It's usually because their teams are underperforming, and Pyke doesn't have a solo "defend a lane" defense. When a team dies, and Pyke's alone, the other team can generally push.

This is especially true if they are running the Electrocute build.

So.... teams abuse it.

Once teams get past the 20/4 shock and awe, and realize it doesn't mean much as far as carrying goes.... they will slow down, be more cautious, and not leave Pyke to be the last one standing that often. Then you will see his REAL scores.

Ambient SnowJun 11, 20182 votes

{quoted}

because unlike kaisa, zoe, rakan (who i love immensely by the way, but still), he has a clear purpose and role besides just "fuck it he does everything".

The fuck you talking about..

HE literally does every thing.

Darius Execution ult. a Ranged Singed grab and throw. Irelia/Shens Dash / CC Mundo's HP regen. Twitches Stealth Ka sai's - movement speed increase.

Yup He doesn't fall in that " Fuck it he does every thing category " ...[sg-zephyr]