Xin Zhao Gameplay Discussion

Umbral Regent··2 votes·877 views

Hello everyone! A while ago, I made a post on Story, Art, & Sound about Xin Zhao's story, character, and his role in Runeterra. My goal there was to, in some respect, provide Riot with a resource (however small) to use going forward for when they eventually place the Seneschal of Demacia on the VGU roster. With the same intent here, I hope to start a discussion about Xin Zhao's kit and his general role in the game.

Warning: this will be long.

So, one of the first issues to tackle with this post would have to be his overall theme: In his lore, he's painted as a single warrior capable of fighting hundreds, but in game, he's a Diver/Skirmisher hybrid adept at either demolishing squishy targets (hello, Titanic Hydra) or basically dueling out most solitary Champions.

And, while at the moment he does fit the Diver Subclass theme (good engage, next to no way out, very sturdy with moderate-to-high survivability), he really excels at dueling and ripping apart solitary opponents, putting him more in-line as a Skirmisher (personal defence tools, moderate survivability, but high average damage and the ability to shred opponents.)

With this peculiarity about him, I have to propose a question or two before I start into anything further:

1. What should Xin Zhao's main class be? Should he be a Skirmisher designed around being a veritable duelist, or a Diver designed around the one-against-many picture painted in his bio?

2. Should he be exclusive to one Subclass, or should he incorporate some parts of at least one other Subclass into his kit? (as he is now; Diver/Skirmisher). If so, what other Subclass should he be?

The second thing to talk about with Xin Zhao would have to be his kit and its power budget. To give a brief outline of his power budget, this is (roughly) what it looks like;

P - Challenge - 10% Q - Three Talon Strike - 20% W - Battle Cry - 30% E - Audacious Charge - 15% R - Crescent Sweep - 25%

Take it with a grain of salt, as the stated power budget could be a number of things: wrong being foremost among them.

Though, to provide context on his power budget, Battle Cry is the most powerful of his abilities right now due to his outdated kit making him reliant on auto-attacks and On-hit effects, often resulting in him running Heartrazor+Guinsoo's Rageblade in the jungle, often becoming very hard to kill without proper defensive items.

His Ultimate, Crescent Sweep, is his next most powerful: Knocking enemies away (to single out someone or to just knock people around) and gaining defenses based on enemy Champions hit, making him actually harder to kill than normal in most situations. After that is Three Talon Strike, which generally is used to hold an enemy in place while you tear them apart.

Then Audacious Charge not entirely strong, just a targeted dash with small AoE damage that isn't impressive. And lastly, Challenge, which marks the last enemy hit by Audacious Charge or a basic attack, reducing armor for 3 seconds and making the target immune to Crescent Sweep.

While my next question would be something along the lines of "how does the community think his power budget should be moved around/respent?" - the prospect of a VGU makes that question both easier and harder to ask and answer, as his post-rework kit is, at the moment, completely unknown. We've no idea what Riot will add or take away from him, but a good bet is that Three Talon Strike and Battle Cry will be seeing changes.

So, the next two questions are:

3. In changing Xin Zhao's kit, what should be removed, what should be changed, what needs Quality-of-Life changes, and what doesn't need work at all?

4. Further, working from the present kit and power-budget, how should his power budget be redistributed, and to what end should this shift in power accomplish?

As some extra questions, I'd also like to ask: A. Should Xin Zhao have more skill expression, or does his current kit depth suffice? B. What are the thoughts about Xin Zhao's current kit that I may not have brought up? C. What are the thoughts on an auto-attack/on-hit reliance in kits/builds? D. Does anyone think that the (potentially) upcoming Diver Class Update might lay a solid groundwork for Xin Zhao's VGU?

With this, I hope there's enough good information to start up discussions; I hope to hear people's thoughts on the matter, and I hope that the Rioters at ChampUp will see this as a noteworthy resource for Xin Zhao's VGU.

4 Comments

MLDzXnRRR2 votes

I'm not sure that autoattacking melee champions have any future in this game - RIOT will continue to make new mobile champions and support/ tanks with AOE CC that make picking melee DPS champions pretty bad choice. I would like to see Xin becoming more combo reliant. His new kit doesn't have too much outplay potential. He is just a worse or better (depending on his base stats) version of other divers/assasins.

Dethflash2 votes

Ive played Xin Zhao enough to het mastery 4 on him, nothing impressive but just showing ive played xin zhao a bit.

Me personally i think if xin zhao got a full on rework to make him fit his lore better. I think Xin being an autoattack reliant melee diver isnt a great spot for him to be in, when Xin gets fed it doesnt feel like there is a lot of counter play against him unless your team is grouped as 5. But how often does Xin zhao get fed? Not very often in my experience. But yeah Xin Zhao needs a rework or update for sure

BremerdanGorst2 votes

I think it's nice to some degree to have some "reliable" champions in the game, to stand apart from the flashy hypermobile skillshot crowd. I've had some decent success with him jungle, I think being able to rely on strategy rather than mechanics helps me out somewhat. Top lane is mostly a no go, only somewhat common top laner he beats is Gangplank, and of course he can't farm from range. His passive could probably stand to be more interesting, although the slight interaction with ult is cool. Maybe increased movement speed towards marked enemies, but that would likely contribute to the whole binary run at your face thing. So I dunno what to do with it.

Now to actually address your questions.

First off, his skill expression is a little light. That's not necessarily a terrible thing, given that he's only 1 champion of 5 on a team, and both teams can recognize what he does and try to work with/against it. Although of course it probably prevents Riot from allowing him to be strong.

I guess I mentioned the passive already. His Q is pretty cool, I'm not sure if I want to add anything to it simply for the sake of power or skill expression since it already gives enemies time to react (depending on the amount of AS I suppose). W is a bit boring, but I think the sustain and attack speed are essential to him at this point to jungle, so IDK what to do with it. The crit seems a bit tacked on simply to keep up with damage creep, although I've had fun in the past building IE on Xin. I think you're underestimating the base damage of Xin's E early game, there are certainly stronger, but most of those require skillshots. He's certainly prone to kiting if his E is peeled or CC'd, which means instead of using his ult strategically in teamfights, he's prone to simply E>R to try and prevent peel or at least tank a little better. I wouldn't mind his ult range being a little longer, but that would probably make that particular problem even worse.

I'm fine with him being largely an autoattacker, though it does make him more vulnerable to CC than many others, since he lacks tools to outplay it. They could try making him CC-immune during ult cast I suppose, to make it a little more of a timing game rather than correct option always being E>R and the counterplay always being CC him as soon as he dashes. It just sounds too similar to Fiora parry to me. Anyway, back to topic. I was about to say I don't always build him on-hit but then I remembered Titanic Hydra is on-hit (the auto reset is so nice). Well, I don't always build him attack speed and on-hit (especially in jungle), I usually go tank/CDR after that Hydra. I don't think he's necessarily dependent on AS/on-hit if you're working with your team rather than trying to solo carry.

VGU, I know nothing. I guess his lore still fits in the new universe, though it's a bit detached from "current events" so he could use a little work there. His overall theme of gladiator seems more like Pantheon, Xin's main splash art makes me think of a more elegant warrior (very Ionian, perhaps captured during the war with Noxus?) (second note, I just read your character post, looks like you and everyone else see the same thing). I suppose there's nothing stopping a gladiator from being skilled though. Thinking about it, I don't particularly care whether he was undefeated in 1v1s or whether he did the whole 1v50 thing, so they can change some of the minor details like that if they want.

xxxDogmanxxx2 votes

ONE. The problem with Xin Zhao's classification is that he is classified primarily as a Diver, but he is actually quite bad at diving multiple enemies. He simply dies too quickly to get his damage off. Meanwhile, he excels at 1v1s and 1v2s skirmishes because of his decent damage and attack speed steroids, making him more of Skirmisher than a Diver. I would love it if Xin Zhao actually became quite a bit stronger when diving multiple enemies, even at the cost of some of his skirmishing power.


TWO. His current classification of Diver/Skirmisher is fine.


THREE. When changing Xin Zhao's kit, they need to keep the basic concept of his Q- Three Talon Strike. While it is certainly outdated and by far not his most powerful ability (it is probably his second weakest, the weakest being his E), an auto-attack reset with a knock-up on the third hit has always been and should always be the Xin Zhao signature move.

However, they could stand to make it more similar to Riven's Q - Broken Wings, in that all of his Q hits now have to be activated. Not only would it give Xin Zhao players a chance to choose when each hit will proc (which would greatly reward skillfull Triforce-weaving), but it will also allow for more creative combos with Xin Zhao. In exchange, it will require far more skill and timing from the Xin Zhao player.

Xin Zhao's W is definitely his most powerful ability, but it is also literally his most boring one. It does nothing but buff his stats and turns any 1v1 or 1v2 fight into a stat check. If Xin has better stats, he wins the fight, if he has worse stats, he loses the fight. That is incredibly outdated and not much fun. They should change it to something that would increase his ability to fight multiple enemies while not necessarily impacting his dueling prowess in a meaningful way. Maybe instead of the guaranteed crit, it should have some sort of AoE that applies only on-hit effects. That would decrease his single target damage by quite a bit, but it would also give him a much better chance when fighting multiple enemies.

Xin Zhao's E is quite possibly the single most straight forward gap closer in the game. You can't reliably use it to escape, it needs an enemy to even work, and it does not do a whole lot of damage. In all honesty, I think it's completely fine the way it is right now. Not broken or abusable, and not overly weak either.

Xin Zhao's R is also quite reasonable. It does not do a lot of damage, but it has good play-making potential and its cooldown is reasonable. If I could change one thing about it, it's that the bonus resistances should come into effect when Xin Zhao is surrounded by enemies, not when Xin Zhao knocks the enemies away. It makes no sense that Xin Zhao gets the resistances when he is isolated with his target while their teammates have been knocked back. That just further pushes him away from being a good diver and turns him even more into a skirmisher. Xin Zhao should get more resistances the more enemies surround him.


FOUR. They should redistribute his power budget, putting more into his Q and R, and less into his boring W and E.


A. I want Xin Zhao to have far more skill expression.

B. You've summed things up quite nicely.

C. I think auto-attack based champions are fine, as long as they have distinguishable identities. Xin Zhao right now doesn't truly have that. He's just a generic attack-speed single-target auto-attacker. My proposed changes aim to make him a skillful multi-enemy diver as per his lore.

D. I sure as hell hope so.

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