Because it doesn't proc many thing that only procs when you have ad damage and that's sad
It's not even a big buff since she is not that great rn
Just the fact that's some items are not as usable because of this
GonahtanuGepardi2 votesThose items are completely usable but you don't want a black cleaver in her build anyway. Get a tiamat item and they will proc even on her 2nd q.
Also, while camille does lose most lanes, she is still a very solid pick because her mid/late game is super strong.
The Anivia OTP1 votesthey are usable
but not AS effective , it's barely something but it changes a little the penetration on her combo or the way she can play with Buffed Q
GonahtanuGepardi1 votesBut again, that's not a problem because BC is not an item she wants to build. Not to mention she would get all the stacks during her combo anyway. She has to stay and basic attack after the combo to get the stacks anyway. She doesn't benefit from black cleaver enough to want it (and that one stack is not even nearly enough to make her buy it).
The Anivia OTP1 votesyou forget one thing :
every single thing that triggers from ad damages does not trigger anymore with a single q past level 16
it is very awkward for a champion to loose interaction past a certain timing
2 she would not get as much use from the stack as she would otherwise, which is unfortunate, even if it represents like 5 damages
3 you can't simply q to remove regen from champion for 3 seconds and e out past 16.
it know it looks uncanny but CONSISTENCY ! that would make the game more clear so people understand better how to play against that champion
GonahtanuGepardi1 votesevery single thing that triggers from ad damages does not trigger anymore with a single q past level 16
They do. The single q is your first q. Only your second q doesn't apply them. The only things that do not trigger from her second q are BC and executioner's calling. You don't buy BC on her anyway and executioner's calling procs from other sources of physical damage. You will pretty much NEVER hit an enemy just with your second q so you will proc the item anyway.
2 she would not get as much use from the stack as she would otherwise, which is unfortunate, even if it represents like 5 damages
Why do you keep bringing this up? This argument is not valid. Stop it. She doesn't get black cleaver. She doesn't want it so it doesn't matter if she gets stacks or not. It doesn't fir her build or play style.
3 you can't simply q to remove regen from champion for 3 seconds and e out past 16.
Yes you can. Your first q still applies everything. As i said before, you will never only use your second q on a champion and nothing else.
it know it looks uncanny but CONSISTENCY ! that would make the game more clear so people understand better how to play against that champion
None of that would help people play better against her as none of that changes anything. She would still not get a black cleaver and she would still proc executioners calling with some other source than second q. All your arguments are invalid.
The Anivia OTP1 voteswhat people build have nothing to do with HOW a champion mechanic should work that's often pretty much the opposite
again , you do proc one 2nd Q sometimes and leave without any other attack because you want to kite out, and not use your spells as you are preparing for an escape or something
And the situation where you fight like this to get out ,
on some matchup this would actually be handy
especially 
that just regenerate all his hp and when you want to escape him you shouldn't stand there auto attacking , however using a Q to boost movement speed , e out and w when you are far enough will be effective
but during that escape you cannot use it
Maybe you haven't played enough , but camille doesn't always ALL IN Sometimes , especially when keeping your spells is important that little regeneration denial is important it may represent 60 hp not regenerated and that is a lot.
why should you be in a better situation pre 16 than post 16 ? isn't strength supposed to build up ?
It's not because i mentioned black cleaver that he is the only
and that "You will pretty much NEVER hit an enemy just with your second q so you will proc the item anyway" is an assumption that shouldn't be there
you can , and if that can happen and is missleading for the camille player, it is a bad design
rules shouldn't change suddenly based on level up and not skill point if the champion isn't design with that in mind.
GonahtanuGepardi1 voteswhat people build have nothing to do with HOW a champion mechanic should work that's often pretty much the opposite
That's actually how it pretty much always goes. It server no purpose to add an interaction to an ability with an item that the champion doesn't want to build. It's like asking why azir's soldiers do not apply bork passive on the targets. He doesn't need it, he doesn't want it. Your line "what people build have nothing to do with HOW a champion mechanic should work" actually works against your argument too. Just because you want to build BC on camille it doesn't mean her second q has to apply a stack.
again , you do proc one 2nd Q sometimes and leave
Of you do that, you weren't gonna benefit from BC or EC anyway. EC is only effective against healing during combat when you go all-in. Not in short poke trades. Same with BC being better in longer engagements. You hitting the enemy once isn't going to make bc useful even if you would get a stack for it. And again, you will not buy BC on her. Stop using it as an argument because it's not valid. In EC's case, you have already sold it at level 16 AND you can proc it with everything else in your kit like w. She doesn't ever rely on her second q to put on these effects.
because you want to kite out, and not use your spells as you are preparing for an escape or something
You can always use w. Always. You can also use basic attacks and you should ALWAYS use a basic attack and then use the second q as an AA reset. Your argument is invalid.
And the situation where you fight like this to get out , on some matchup this would actually be handy
Nope. Not a single case where you would need those effects and not a single case where the only thing you use o nthe enemy is your second q. You even have to use your first q on something first and that is definitely most likely the enemy champion in a case like this. It's not like they run at you and you hit a minion with your q instead of the enemy champion. Low skill level gameplay is not the baseline for game balance.
especially that just regenerate all his hp and when you want to escape him you shouldn't stand there auto attacking , however using a Q to boost movement speed , e out and w when you are far enough will be effective but during that escape you cannot use it
And in a situation like this your BC (that you aren't going to actually buy) stacks are useless because you are running away instead of fighting and you are applying them anyway with other attacks, same with EC. Another invalid argument.
Maybe you haven't played enough , but camille doesn't always ALL IN Sometimes , especially when keeping your spells is important that little regeneration denial is important it may represent 60 hp not regenerated and that is a lot.
I have played camille much more than you have and on a MUCH higher skill level than you have. She is one of my go to top laners and one of my favorite champions in the game. I know how she works. She doesn't go all-in in pretty much any match-up during laning phase. There also in't any time when keeping your spells up is important unless we are talking about her ult or her e. She can use q and w freely. She only needs her e to escape. And again, you can apply grievous wounds with something else than second q. Second q is not needed at all for it.
why should you be in a better situation pre 16 than post 16 ? isn't strength supposed to build up ?
You are in a better situation post 16. Her damage changes from physical to true damage on the second cast. That's a power increase, not a decrease.
and that "You will pretty much NEVER hit an enemy just with your second q so you will proc the item anyway" is an assumption that shouldn't be there
It's not an assumption, it's a fact. A scenario that will happen 99.9999999% of the time.
you can , and if that can happen and is missleading for the camille player, it is a bad design
It's not misleading for the camille player. You are supposed to know what you champion does and you know her second e deals true damage and not physical damage after 16. It's not bad design.
rules shouldn't change suddenly based on level up and not skill point if the champion isn't design with that in mind.
The champion is designed with that in mind though and the rules aren't changing. True damage doesn't apply those effects which means the rules stay the same.
Your arguments hold no value on this topic. I consider this topic closed and will not reply to further comments. Have a great day.
The Anivia OTP1 votesThat's actually how it pretty much always goes. It server no purpose to add an interaction to an ability with an item that the champion doesn't want to build. It's like asking why azir's soldiers do not apply bork passive on the targets. He doesn't need it, he doesn't want it. Your line "what people build have nothing to do with HOW a champion mechanic should work" actually works against your argument too. Just because you want to build BC on camille it doesn't mean her second q has to apply a stack.
Again , it's not because I want to build BC , but because i want interaction to be consistent You seem to miss the whole point,
Her second q APPLY A STACK PRE 16 that's the whole point of the thing meaning for most of the game you're fairly ok , and suddenly , you're unable to use these mechanics because you leveled up the ONLY other champion that loses item interaction is kayle
no champion lose permanently ability to use effectively an item, except from camille BC will take 1 more hit to stack and 2nd q poke will not remove regeneration anymore by itself ANY new mechanic based on that ad damage will as well loose it's interaction due to damage going from 97% to 100% from level 15 to level 16
it's not only these two item , it's every future item ad that will be impossible to use past level 16
Of you do that, you weren't gonna benefit from BC or EC anyway. EC is only effective against healing during combat when you go all-in. Not in short poke trades. Same with BC being better in longer engagements. You hitting the enemy once isn't going to make bc useful even if you would get a stack for it. And again, you will not buy BC on her. Stop using it as an argument because it's not valid. In EC's case, you have already sold it at level 16 AND you can proc it with everything else in your kit like w. She doesn't ever rely on her second q to put on these effects.
For BC That changes how EARLY in the combo you can leave, 1 of your attack will benefit it as i said , this represents maybe 10 damages (around 8) but that 10 damages loss is holding back every single all in , and over 10 engage , it's already 100 damages this stacks up very quickly
that also mean you will be faster to help your adc if you are playing support camille.
EC is a little more touchy , but the kiting out situation sums up pretty well the problem : you are forced to use another spell to remove healing PAST level 16 because it doesn't work anymore.
any situation where you land 2nd as final hit and leave will be weaker too it might just represent 20 hp , but again , this does stack over the course of a game.
You can always use w. Always. You can also use basic attacks and you should ALWAYS use a basic attack and then use the second q as an AA reset. Your argument is invalid.
You relise that the effectiveness range is different ? Q is fairly close , w is mid range
Nope. Not a single case where you would need those effects and not a single case where the only thing you use o nthe enemy is your second q. You even have to use your first q on something first and that is definitely most likely the enemy champion in a case like this. It's not like they run at you and you hit a minion with your q instead of the enemy champion. Low skill level gameplay is not the baseline for game balance. but during that escape you cannot use it
It's like you're denying just for the sake of denying, and you're being so stubborn your wrong you're actually assuming that there is NO situation when you only land 2nd q and nothing else for 3 seconds ? I brought that good mundo example because that's typically what it happens there, you use 2nd q on him then jump out and use your w in case he get closer so you can cc him
What you're asking is that we use W as an attack (that stops your from attacking btw), not use ANY of it's feature , just to get that anti heal ? not sorry you can't do that , because it's stupid however something that is not stupid is using your Q on a minions to rush out , use 2nd Q on him in case he gets to close use E as soon as your not slowed , keep W in case you need to keep advance
what Does the removal of regeneration has to do with all that ? Well , if h is low , he stays low longer, and given the fact you kept your W, you don't need to go closer to get 6 seconds of anti heal that is handy in a laning phase.
i mean you can ALREADY do that until level 16 where you cannot anymore. that is something you seem to struggle to realise
And in a situation like this your BC (that you aren't going to actually buy) stacks are useless because you are running away instead of fighting and you are applying them anyway with other attacks, same with EC. Another invalid argument.
I have played camille much more than you have and on a MUCH higher skill level than you have. She is one of my go to top laners and one of my favorite champions in the game. I know how she works. She doesn't go all-in in pretty much any match-up during laning phase. There also in't any time when keeping your spells up is important unless we are talking about her ult or her e. She can use q and w freely. She only needs her e to escape. And again, you can apply grievous wounds with something else than second q. Second q is not needed at all for it.
1 you haven't played camille more than me , i own two account , this one who used to be called camille otp and the camille otp account both these accounts are mines much hgher skills , sorry i don't think so , you're plat , you're not diamond 2
i've coached players with bazillions times your level , that doesn't mean i would be more right than you , and the opposite is true , you're no one , remember it.
1st of all, YOU don't go all in in any matchup because you play camille your way, stop being self centered, there is camille jungle , camille mid camille top and camille support
2nd of all ,n this doesn't not concern laning phase , but the very late game , we're talking about level 16 what ever you are bringing before that is irrelevant
You are in a better situation post 16. Her damage changes from physical to true damage on the second cast. That's a power increase, not a decrease.
that power increase is not as effective as the other power increase in that situation
i would agree to say that black cleaver is .... fairly rare and should not be a prime target BUT , EC is camille's ONLY option against heavy healing, Seeing EC not as effective due to inconsistencies in her kit is NOT
It's not an assumption, it's a fact. A scenario that will happen 99.9999999% of the time.
i wanted to check that , so i did one thing, just googled camille pro plays , 1st video 3rd clip we already see a camille kiting out using only 2nd Q with long delay
but yeah , that never happens https://youtu.be/0gZksFcvrD0?t=47
Kiting out is fairly frequent, Are they the major part of her "game" , of course not at this problem only triggers when this happen after level 16 , but this problem CAN exist, therefore should be considered
imagine if shaco would disappear because of an overview in the game code , or an aurelion sol star disappear from the game kappa
It's not misleading for the camille player. You are supposed to know what you champion does and you know her second e deals true damage and not physical damage after 16. It's not bad design.
Again , people knew about tk 0 mana cost, but it was inconsistent and finally got changed Bad design is showed when part of your kit is in a grey area and show inconsistencies, that's why old morde was blamed that's why they fix bug
UX is maybe the most important part of a design.
The champion is designed with that in mind though and the rules aren't changing. True damage doesn't apply those effects which means the rules stay the same.
Your arguments hold no value on this topic. I consider this topic closed and will not reply to further comments. Have a great day.
It's like saying , hey , you can't use you car to got there now , i mean you always could , but past that point , can't drive it , yeah it is 5 meters away from your home , yes you can use every other thing maybe only 0.0000001% of time will you not be able to go there with anything else but a car but the thing is , you always could and suddenly you can't, that's an inconsistency , it's not critical , but it enhance the experience.
to jump back on your azir example , you showed that you don't understand that this is not ALL game just final levels where you are not as effective, and if azir soldier could use botrk until level 16 , there would be the same thread about him.
xDogMeatx1 votesOmG Camille buff???? WTF are you thinking you trying to make a knmgjksdngp;n monster????!?!!?!??
but really though camille doesnt need a flat out buff she needs a way to actually interact with her laner other then W them endlessly. tri force gives camille everything she wants and more. question though does her Q true damage crit?
The Anivia OTP1 votes1 damage buff , that just allow some interaction with item she has pre-level 16 but not after level 16 That's not a huge buff , just making things more consistent
GonahtanuGepardi1 votesquestion though does her Q true damage crit?
No but sheen damage is added to it as true damage. Before she was released, her q could crit but that was too op since her second q could hit for insane amounts of true damage.