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Boards are like John Snow about balance

Ale non è male··5 votes·625 views
PSA: Cassio rework is a success

They know nothing

Looking back in time, in the middle of the shitstorm made by Cassio mains abaout the latest Cassio rework, I made a thread with the unpopular opinion that Cassio rework was a success, and while requests for some small buffs and QoL improvements were fair at time when she was a bit weak, it was stupid to criticize the entire rework and to push for her to get back to her outdated patterns

Fast forward after Worlds, Cassio has been a power pick in all the subsequent months and a power pick in pro play, and you are not hearing any complaints about her reworked kit because she ended up obviously strong and obnoxious when people learned how to use the new possibilities her kit give her in combinations with her old patterns...so guess who was right?

That's just an example that involved a my thread, but has happened multiple times that boards feeling was off the current reality of the situation.

When users are posting about balance here (or on other outlets), they should think and argument with their head and not just buying what other people or general sentiment is saying, because boards (and other outlets) are useful tools to give good feedback to developers, BUT a lot of good feedback get lost in the midst of the storm of prejudices and false assumptions about certain things producing bad feedback which doesn't help to hit the right spot on balance affairs

14 Comments

Canastus3 votes

Sorry but you know nothing, I was among those dedicated Cassmains who claimed the rework was a failure and indeed, it was. She had a downright horrendous winrate and performed even worse than her 4.16 self (aka the gutted Cass from Stashu's initial rework), it really was THAT bad.

The E-hotfix was the most incompetent thing they could have done to remedy the situation since it didn't improve her performance in the slightest (only shows how little Riot know about their own game), her actual issues were the overall brutal manacosts and her godawful range (especially the treatment on her W). It took them at least one month to finally get these things fixed, that's when she finally became playable again.

Your attempt at elevating your opinion from others didn't really work out in the end. Meanwhile we, as mains, have been right from the very start - and that every single time whenever they attempted to rework our dear snakelady. You simply cannot compete with our insight on her.

Ale non è male2 votes

{quoted}

Your attempt at elevating your opinion from others didn't really work out in the end. Meanwhile we, as mains, have been right from the very start - and that every single time whenever they attempted to rework our dear snakelady. You simply cannot compete with our insight on her.

LOL NO, you were terribly wrong. You called her rework terrible and a failure, you called for the fact that her kit felt clunky and those new possibilities she got couldn't make up for her being not the same E spam champ anymore, which was totally untrue, and it showed it up later

And guess what, after she got adjustments she needed (and that I said in that thread that was fair to ask), she became not just playable with a clunky kit, she became OP and generally apprecciated with that same kit you despised... and lol at the E-hotfix not improving her performance, that E-hotfix was too good to be true, the fact is that even after that you keep considering her weak as hell and so you had to wait the next patch when she got overcompensated + additional time after that while you learn her to unlock her new potential

You better take the blow and admit your failure dude, you were crying because of the very power she had, not because the rework aka how a champion work and how her skills interact works was a failure

Pound me Poppy3 votes

What was the meaning of the rework? I still don't know. The only thing that was good in my opinion was the change to the passive. I just want old Cassiopeia back, I don't like this one where the skillfloor is so much lower, where you don't have to learn how to kite. I did like the punishing nature of the one before, but uttermost, I want the old Cassiopeia back, the one where King Cobra showed me how you would ult flash, the one where I got gud at.

Ale non è male2 votes

{quoted}

, I don't like this one where the skillfloor is so much lower, where you don't have to learn how to kite.

Yeah sure

SMH

Pound me Poppy3 votes

Do you know how it used to be? It was like an auto attack, meaning that your movement was interrupted by casting E. Now you don't have that problem, nor do you have to poison your target first, because your E doesn't go on a 5 second cooldown, so you can EQEEE now instead if needing to hit a skillshot. Oh and if you want to make a comeback, don't react on one part, but on everything. Cassiopeia now is braindead in comparison to the older versions.

Ale non è male1 votes

{quoted}

Do you know how it used to be? It was like an auto attack, meaning that your movement was interrupted by casting E. Now you don't have that problem, nor do you have to poison your target first, because your E doesn't go on a 5 second cooldown, so you can EQEEE now instead if needing to hit a skillshot. Oh and if you want to make a comeback, don't react on one part, but on everything. Cassiopeia now is braindead in comparison to the older versions.

Your E on Not Poisoned target does abysmal target and the range is not much, and does not alter your target movement that can close to you or go away, so good luck unleash Cassio damage without being able to kite as well as you did before, where if you hit even only one E it was over for the enemy The only advantage you got in this aspect is being able to build a window of safety from dashes and blinks with the good use of your Miasma, that's all

Pound me Poppy4 votes

The damage is abysmal, however, that doesn't matter if you have rylais 2nd item for some "interactive gameplay", you want the slow. The kiting now is way easier then earlier because of the reasons I mentioned earlier. And the miasma range is nerfed enough to be of no relevance if not maxed for the slow on it, since you can walk outta it in no time

Ale non è male1 votes

{quoted}

The damage is abysmal, however, that doesn't matter if you have rylais 2nd item for some "interactive gameplay", you want the slow. The kiting now is way easier then earlier because of the reasons I mentioned earlier. And the miasma range is nerfed enough to be of no relevance if not maxed for the slow on it, since you can walk outta it in no time

LMFAO, it is not like old Cassio was more interactive. if that was the issue, why you want old Cassio back? Because interactive is not something I would say of any version of Cassio, this is the most interactive one she has ever had (and a champ which has one of her core mechanic into spam a spell with sub 1 sec CD will always have lower interactivity than the average) And rylai now is even gone (rip Morde), btw

The kiting is not easier. You had to stop-move like an AA but old Cassio had lower CD once you hit the first E and higher damage per single E , so the issue was and still is landing her first E, and heck, once you hit the first one the old Cassio just had easier time 'cause the burst was bigger

Miasma is the only thing that make Cassio kite really easier, because can stop the enemies from a brief amount of time from jumping on you. And you are calling that not relevant? Lol, it is the safety thing that make up for the more interactivity this Cassio leave to the enemy compared to the old one and that allow enemy to try to jump on her before being bursted down

Pound me Poppy3 votes

TL;DR: You express an opinion, based on your own feelings.

The old Cassiopeia was a lane bully, like Xerath, Brand or Syndra is now, but the point of old Cassiopeia is that E was a filler spell and not the main damage spell, she was a DoT champion, which only Ballsackhair Malzahar is now. Oh, and you had to lane a skillshot first, instead of EQ which is easier.

If Rylai holds any form of slows, this version of Cassiopeia needs it to be viable, because otherwise she has no reliable CC.

You are contradicting yourself, the kiting IS easier, the fact that you kill faster is more a thing of numbers, not of mechanical skill.

Miasma isn't that great, it's good for kiting backwards, but if I wanted that, there are other mages that do that way better. Anti-engage OK, but 800 range? Someone who gives you real problems, like Fizz or Akali don't give a dimmadamn about that puddle, they have enough dashes to get over it, since it doesn't stop them, like a Poppy steadfast presence.

The point still stands: New Cassiopeia has other problems then the older one and is even harder to balance because of the DPS part, only gated by mana and now also CDR.

If we go back to the DoT poison mage, with a threatening ultimate (it was nerfed in damage AND at the slows) I would be happy. New Cassiopeia still has that lane bully potential, but is more of an ADC now. But with skill spam. And managated damage.

I liked the DoT because I felt I was a poison useing mage, not some machinegun. If I wanted to feel that I would play TF2 again #heavylife.

Ale non è male1 votes

{quoted}

TL;DR: You express an opinion, based on your own feelings.

The old Cassiopeia was a lane bully, like Xerath, Brand or Syndra is now, but the point of old Cassiopeia is that E was a filler spell and not the main damage spell,

I smell bulls**t here

You are contradicting yourself, the kiting IS easier, the fact that you kill faster is more a thing of numbers, not of mechanical skill.

Nope, it is that you can't read properly, old Cassio killed faster once could hit the first E because lower CD andhigher damage on the spell

The kiting mechanics have changed quite a bit on her, but she still pretty much reliant on kiting, which is my point that still stands. You kill slower now with the same range of your main low range spell, so while it is not the same exact mechanic anymore (the previous was more ADc-ish with the stop-move, this one is more mage-ish), the point still stand, you got to kite properly or you get wrecked

Miasma is the only safety thing she has gotten that makes the life easier because improve some match-ups vs mobile champs that would be unplayable otherwise...so it is not universal good, but it is still good, and the only thing that lower quite a bit the kiting skill required to play her

New Cassiopeia is less binary and has less problem than the old one (and some problems will always be intrinsic in the design of that type of champ Riot want to do), and there are more tools upon which riot can leverage upon to play around her kit

I would be happy with Cassio become even more DoT and less E spam happy (and I wrote in the months old thread), but unfortunately she NEVER was one because of the E spam preponderance, but unfortunately she has never been one and she will never completely be one because E spam has become a part of his identity that Cassio main didn't want to change (which was one of the main reason of the cry outage when the rework first came out)

P.S.

And I was almost missing this pearl at the end XD

New Cassiopeia still has that lane bully potential, but is more of an ADC now

LOL, and THIS summarize perfectly how much bulls**t you are spreading out there...they literally changed her kiting mechanic from a more Adc-ish one (stop-move like an AA) to a less ADC-ish one and that change was one of the main point of your complaints here and then you say that she is more of an ADC NOW??? Pathetic

God Raijin1 votes

To sum up these boards, is basically a lot of unranked/bronze 5 players thinking they know better "than 'you' do", because of anecdotal evidence from the games they play (regardless of how good or bad a champion is in higher tiers of play.)

Like when graves got reworked everyone was downvoting me saying there wasn't anything too strong about him, and it literally took these boards months to catch on to how busted he was (before nerfs).

Pound me Poppy2 votes

I have 70K and lv7 so I might know how to play her. The goal with the rework was to make her less E reliant but failed, therefore the rework failed, BUT that doesn't mean you can't make people ragequit, oh no dude, that part got even worse with how good and reliable rylais is with her kit.

God Raijin1 votes

u sure gat mi gud

Ale non è male1 votes

UPDATE: It looks like it is not only about balance they don't know about, given the ridicoulous reaction they are having to the whole Normal Draft thing

It is laughable how they don't understand why if Riot has to pick only one, it makes far more sense to keep Blind rather than Normal Draft and how some of their argument is terribad when they argue for removing Blind... and I say this while ,my opinion is that they could really leave Normal Draft up as a queue, limited to few days/week as good compromise

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