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What is the scenario for a proper Cull's usage in the post 8.23 League?

Ale non è male·11/29/2018, 6:25:08 PM·18 votes·13,003 views

Cull was introduced back in preseason of season 6 alongside the rework of a bunch of consumable and starting items to give more options to certain kind of ADCs that would favor farming early on over fighting, but this item never found success because has basically never deemed worth the hassle of surviving after the first levels where Doran Blade start to outscale and synergize with the other items or being considered a worse option to play/regen safely in lane than Doran Shield, because it take too much time to get a measly amount of gold as reward - and you risk to lose way more than what you earn if you get pushed back because of the disadvantage in power against Dblade/shield

Now that there has been a big change in the amount of gold eventually available in the early game through the changes done to turrets, and aggression in lane phase is encouraged in the race to get the turret gold before plating falls off, does Cull still serve a purpose in the current landscape? And if the answer is yes, what should be done to improve its viability?

There are multiple options possible available to choose in theory (obviously you can choose only one or a combination of solutions, not every one together) :

  • Increase the amount of gold given for any minion killed (+2 gold instead of +1)
  • Reduce the number of minions to kill to get the payout (50-75 instead of 100)
  • Increase the stacks given by a cannon minion kill (2-3 stacks for cannon minion killed instead of 1)
  • Increase the final payout after killng the required number of minions (+400-450 instead of +300)
  • Increase its base stats so Cull doesn't get outscaled so early by DBlade/Shield (8 atk dmg-5 health on hit instead of 7 atk dmg- 3 health on hit)

What do you think Riot should do with Cull next?

42 Comments

YuGiHo11/30/2018, 4:17:51 AM6 votes

i wish cull gave adaptive damage instead of being ad only

Pokemonred20011/29/2018, 6:58:40 PM5 votes

item 1083 was supposedly released to replace Avarice Blade, which was a gold gen item giving crit chance that built into item 3087 and item 3142. Both items got built path changes that made Avarice kind of redundant, so they removed it, but it feels like Cull has never lived up to what Avarice used to be.

I think a lot of that is because of the fact that Cull gives less gold before you cash in the 100 stacks (+1 gold per minion, with an extra 350 when finishing 100 stacks, vs +2 gold per unit kill), doesn't generate gold passively (Avarice gave +3 per 10 seconds), and is a dead end item (Avarice at least had upgrades).

I feel like to make Cull a decently useful starting item, it needs to have either its gold generation buffed, or have flat health added to it. One of the reasons I feel like it does so poorly in comparison to DBlade and DShield is that both items grant 80 health, while providing generally superior stats anyway (especially with DBlade) and outclassing it in sustain (especially with DShield).

disregardable11/29/2018, 6:37:22 PM3 votes

does Cull still serve a purpose in the current landscape

Cull has never served a purpose, even the patch it released it was the inferior option.

The Bad Touch11/29/2018, 7:27:17 PM3 votes

Cull should just be reworked into an AD support item for Pyke and troll picks.

Make it an aggressive AD support item that stacks off doing X aggressive action. Maybe a Relic type item that has a CD and has a mini mini duskblade style proc after executing a minion(which grants gold to the adc.) That proc gets locked out if you CS. Sort of a combo of relic and spellthief with an AD focus.

Would also be a nice item for Champs like thresh. Or those weird sup picks like MF/Ashe. item 3134 for supports basically.

Yenn11/29/2018, 10:29:42 PM2 votes

It's still better than a Doran's Blade in passive lanes, since you won't use or need the extra stats (especially HP). It doesn't really need any changes.

Arima the Reaper11/30/2018, 2:03:07 AM2 votes

I actually buy Cull quite a bit as Renekton top. If you get a first blood early, but don't have enough gold to grab a Tiamat, it is quite a good item in the sense that it allows you to rush your larger, more expensive items early. Combine that with the fact that once you get Tiamat, you insta-gib waves, and its pretty easy to finish something like a BC or ER at close to 10 minutes in the game, assuming more kills and decent CSing.

Rıots Bad Client11/30/2018, 1:38:36 AM1 votes

I've seen some people attempt to cull.

However, I have yet to see this game even cross anyones minds. item 3252

Support Position11/30/2018, 1:54:28 AM1 votes

Never. Don't ever buy the worst "starter" in league ever.

lykkelas11/30/2018, 3:17:57 AM1 votes

if ure playing as a lane bully and u somehow get 450 free gold

Popperofski11/30/2018, 4:09:00 AM1 votes

cull can be used in one of two ways:

Farming to get to items knowing you do not win fights at any point early - Gangplank KogMaw Twitch Nasus Shen these types of champs

or

I've seen champions who are SUPER ahead, want to get even more ahead, but these will only teamfight if absolutely necessary, otherwise, split away. Yorick Renekton Illaoi Tryndamere

or to put it to a general use type purpose - anyone who just needs money, but doesnt know future's market is a rune

Modl Ryden l11/30/2018, 6:01:41 AM1 votes

I find it only every useful if you have the gold an you have like 15 CS. 30 or more CS then it's not worth because by then you'd already have like 850g.

FCJAAAAGOOOO11/30/2018, 6:28:09 AM1 votes

Something something Lucian, something something mid laner marksmen, something something most marksmen aren't meta rn anyway.

Pika Fox11/30/2018, 7:03:51 AM1 votes

Cull generally isnt a first buy. Usually you grab cull 2nd depending on how the lane is going to play out. If theres not going to be much action and youre going to just AFK farm, its generally a good buy.

After the crit item changes and push to make the game more interactive in general, theres no real laning phase where youre going to want to be passive, so cull has dropped out of favor. Especially since ADCs become relevant at 1 item while waiting for their actual powerspike at 3, meaning the ADC role isnt a boring farm fest anymore.

Warlord Rhinark11/30/2018, 7:12:24 AM1 votes

I think the buff it needs is that it triggers from Jungle Monsters as well, not just Lane Minions.

Aseraan11/30/2018, 12:59:41 PM1 votes

The best use a Cull user can ever do whit Cull is not buying Cull........pickng Cull can essentialy turn into the same thing as playing Ezreal support.

NotFreecell11/30/2018, 2:17:20 PM1 votes

LOL....... at the comments of people who dont even play ranked.

the weeaboo11/30/2018, 3:59:33 PM1 votes

I always just buy it first back on Irelia

SexualNuts11/30/2018, 6:57:53 PM1 votes

Agree this item feels like an absolute noob trap. I've tried taking it in both passive lanes and lanes where I'd stomp and in both cases it just feels like a sub-par choice.

I'd like to see this:

item 1083 Cost 350 gold +5 attack damage

UNIQUE Passive: Killing enemy units grant you +5 health, +3 mana and +2 bonus gold. Maximum bonus gold: 300. This item sells for 0 gold until the maximum bonus gold is reached. It then sells for 150 gold.

Better sustain to compete with Doran's items and corrupting potion, as well as a less gimmicky gold bonus. It still comes at the cost of better stats other items give so there is a trade-off.

Ale non è male12/6/2018, 12:21:27 AM1 votes

Update (or better, lack thereof): 8.24 hit and Poacher's Dirk was removed because no one deemed worthy its trade-offs, but no news about Full future

DM For Rat Facts11/29/2018, 6:32:20 PM1 votes

I've only seen gangplank take it

Ale non è male2/23/2019, 11:09:47 AM1 votes

Necro Bump, as this thread just returned in my mind after the Gameplay+ postmortem post

Months later after this thread was done, with League currently on patch 9.4 after the game received the preannounced and expected marksmen items rework/update in patch 9.3, Cull still got totally untouched and remains in a terrible spot.

It just seems Riot balance team does not even care anymore about the niche this item should currently fill in the game, since they are not touching Cull even in the context of a large marksmen items update, which is even more baffling when they actually immediately acted on gold generation problem with support items during patch 9.3 on the infamous Kleptomancy-support item synergy (and not touching Klepto whcih was a baffling decision in his own)

boricCentaur111/29/2018, 7:04:38 PM1 votes

O yeah item 1083 is still a item wtf I would of thought they rework or remove it by now.

Speeedy11/29/2018, 10:10:02 PM1 votes

The only time I've bought it is if i have really bad back timing for the first back like if i have less than 875 gold like season 7. Its a 10-12 min item, which sucks but for 450 gold you get 350(passive)+180(selling it)=530 which sounds good but it really only nets you 80 gold (530-450=80). It needs to net you like 300 gold to justify it at a bare minimum to take up an inventory slot for the time it requires now.

Rod of ages sits for 10 minutes and gets really good once its fully stacked. I think you get 40AP, 200hp and 100 mana for the 10 minutes it takes which is a ton of stats over 80 gold from cull.

I think the easiest thing to do is adjust the payout on it by making it a minimum of 570. so it really is 570+180-450=300 output which gets you a dagger or maybe up it a little more to give you a long sword. You need to make sacrificing the stats from a real item worth the delay in your build since you are never going to even possibly buy it past the 15 minute mark of the game.

Il Conte Eiacula11/29/2018, 10:39:18 PM1 votes

I think Riot should remove the hp bonus from doran's blade if they want to give a true alternative between these two items, right now that bonus is too appealing to an adc.

420 grams11/30/2018, 12:08:52 AM1 votes

For when you get first blood when the game starts

I also start it often as adc. The healing is more while you do less than 100 damage an auto and you don't really miss the 1 ad from not getting Dorans Blade.

Flashes11/30/2018, 12:31:41 AM1 votes

They should cull it from the game :^)

Seriously though, if Riot continues this philosophy of "Win by shoving lane faster and deleting opponents", then it really is pointless to ever use Cull.

Farming is fine, but the stat bonuses are just too invaluable in this current meta, and from the looks of it, it'll be staying that way for a LONG time.