@Riot Buff Kindred already

Laçez··28 votes·3,421 views

I picked up Kindred like a patch or two before she was nerfed to oblivion and bought the super galaxy skin because the champion (imo) was hella fun to play, even after the non stop nerfs I persisted to play her now I'm level 7 and I understand what I can and can't do as Kindred, but now I'm pissed, every game is a nightmare whenever there is a Jax LeeSin Yasuo or anything of the sort. Kindred's early game used to be strong, OP infact and I don't want that back, I just want her to be playable. Early game is a fight for your own life in the jungle, and you pray that you don't get invaded because you know your bronze team won't respond when you spam pings, or by the time they do you're already dead. Every early game exchange is not in your favour, the q at rank 1 is 9 seconds without W and this doesn't change, the cooldown is static throughout the course of the game. The Q cd was nerfed to 4 seconds from 2 at early ranks and now Kindred's Duelling potential is gone.

Kindred's movement speed is the slowest in the game, she is a squishy marksman in the jungle and yet her survive ability was nerfed, the heal is gone, yes the attack & movement speed slow is great on camps and her clear remains great, it is just that this wasn't really thought over well for fighting other champions. Having her Q on a 2 second cd when used in conjunction with the w made her base Ms Justifiable, having a heal and survive ability on her w made her base Ms Justifiable, having a 70% slow on her E again made her base Ms justifiable, yet all these things were nerfed, if not removed, but her base Ms remains the same. I can barely stick to a target when ganking and it is the most frustrating thing ever when they just walk away because Kindred is so unbelievably slow. I am forced to buy item 3046 / item 3085 / item 3078, just to keep up with my targets and I can't really experiment with other builds that I may even prefer or deem situational. Don't get me wrong I have carried as Kindred and carried hard, but that was when I was able to get free marks because I countered the enemy jungle or because the enemy team was dumb and I got lucky. Falling off as Kindred now hurts more than ever because she deals on hit damage, thus making her extremely item dependant and without marks you aren't even a threat. The most you can bring to a teamfight is your ultimate late game, providing they don't focus you and cause you to use it early, at which point you have most likely already lost the teamfight. The Q base damage was nerfed to deal less damage but scale with marks as you attain them, resulting in you having to get 9 marks in order to deal the damage it was doing pre-nerf. I mean come on it already has only a 20% AD scaling ratio and they hit her this hard early game?! Her marks are so crucial and yes it is a gamble because her passive is strong, regardless your kit does not compliment or assist you in getting marks in the slightest giving how slow she is, any jungler can reach it before you do or if you do make it, you're duelling potential is awful so you lose out and feed.

Every Adc has ways of Kiting and making up for there extreme lack of speed, you have the kite Kings and Queens: KogMaw Vayne Ezreal Jinx Draven ...

  • Vayne has in built 30Ms when moving towards a target, and this is tripled to 90Ms when in ulti, she also has a 1 second stealth on her Q and a knockback/ stun on terrain on her E
  • Ezreal can Kite for days with his Q reducing his cds per hit by 1.5 seconds on targets, and paired with item 3025, you'll barely be able to catch him.
  • Kog'maw is a sentry gun with slows, pumping out insane damage in short bursts and I've only really seen pros kite really well with him.
  • Jinx has a Stun and a Slow that scales with rank up to 70% at lvl 5, and a passive that gives her Ms and atk speed when she assists with the destruction of a structure or a kill on a champion.
  • Draven has a displacement and slow on his E and a W that increases his Ms and attack speed. I only make these comparisons because Kindred is referred to as a marksman in the jungle, but yet with her slow base Ms and lack of effective cc (which used to be in her kit mind you), she can barely compete with their mechanics. I get completely destroyed by such a variety of champions in the early game which already sets up for an abysmal late game if I even make it there and it is demoralising, especially when you put so much time into a champion and maybe learn a few things but it is all to no avail.

These may or may not sound OP but here are some changes I propose: Have her Q be lowered by 1/1/5/2 seconds per target hit, so if 3 targets were hit at max rank, the q cd would be reduced by a maximum of 6 seconds, similar to Ezreal's Q or Lucian's passive effecting his E, it would make the ability feel more independent and less gimmicky and borederline useless. This cd reduction wouldn't apply if you were in your W, so it would work they way it does now if W is active. Increase the base damage of Q to 65, so you need 7 stacks to have the damage you have pre nerf. It would give her greater chances of coming back and being relevant even if it is small. Maybe have Q scale off 25/30% AD instead of 20. Increase Ms to 335 have the E slow scale into the late game up to 70% at max rank. Boom there it is, healthy champion, relevant and not broken. Even if this turns out to be OP that is what the Pbe is for...

I wrote this is so much more detail and spent close to 2 hours writing this earlier but it didn't post and I lost everything ;-; , so I'm sorry if it feels a little brief and unexplained.

45 Comments

WolfChases7 votes

Agree. I understand that Kindred were kinda OP on release but cmmon....they nerfed the shit out of champion.

Naomi CoffeeGoat7 votes

I'd either like them to put some armor back since they removed the heal anyways, or even have the heal back in some form just so we can have the animation again. Or maybe revert some Q changes.

Laçez6 votes

I'm unsure about the heal because that was where the main problem lied for Kindred and invading enemy champions, she would come out practically full health and be able to out trade any jungler, it seemed unfair to a degree, but since she's so squishy as of now they may as well add it back :P

Astôlfo6 votes

A heal on a lower amount or a longer stacking required time would be better (gaining 100 stacks taking longer or whatever).

Laçez4 votes

:o loool I can't believe I didn't think of that, that's a pretty good point +1

Darkslayer856 votes

Agreed.

Treune815 votes

They will buff Kindred on 6.19.

Laçez3 votes

I think they were planning to buff her damage one her E and attack growth stat from 1.7 - 2.5/ lvl but those changes were reverted, at least we know they are taking a look into Kindred.

JuiceNJews4 votes

I'm still having nightmares about trying to contest scuttle crab from kindred early just to have her slaughter me from a safe range while barely being able to do anything back to her.

I haven't seen her in a while, if they do buff her I hope it's a small buff and not something that turns her back into the oppressive btch... er.. dck... er both! she used to be.

Warpes2 votes

admits that kindred was op....

asks for buffs to make her op again....

wut

ModWulf Helhammer10 votes

Asks for buff to make them able to be played again

FIFY

dragon1xx6 votes

cough cough RekSai cough cough

Laçez6 votes

I don't want them op again, because then her ban rate would just increase and her I wouldn't even be able to play her, I specifically mentioned that I want Kindred in a position where she is playable again and healthy, the buffs I proposed are merely speculation and ideas that could be implemented while keeping her balanced.

ZT Xperimentor2 votes

You're overlooking a couple important things; she can stack marks indefinitely, and she's a mobile marksman. She should have terrible base stats as a cost for being able to gain infinite power; just as nasas, sion, thresh, and veigar. Bard being the sole exception as he's a support with only 1 damaging ability aside from auto-attacks, and his stacks of chimes don't apply to 2 of his other abilities. Kindred is a marksman, one of the fastest & highest scaling champion classes in the game! It shouldn't be hard to gain stacks as long as you work with your team.

Astôlfo13 votes

Uh yeah except unlike every other infinite stacking champ, the majority comes from champion kills/assists. Which is far harder. And takes far longer.

She needs a stronger early/base stats so she can actually have a chance at even getting the stacks in the first place. Without them, she's utterly useless and will never get more reliably and fast enough. And her scaling is entirely reliant on her Hunts and is complete shit otherwise, sooo. And her mobility got nerfed to the ground.

"shouldn't be hard to gain stacks as long as you work with your team" mmk. Let me just survive having an absolutely garbage early jungling experience since it got trashed by nerfs. Let me just ignore the fact I can't invade like I'm supposed to. Let me just ignore the fact I have no good CC except E which got nerfed over and over. Let me just ignore the fact to get any reasonable number of Hunts, I will have to invade with my crappy stats or force my laner to do all the work in the gank and hope I can get an assist for being near useless. Let me just ignore the fact anyone who can ward or play safer when Marked completely ruins it.

But yes, please, tell us more.

Laçez4 votes

Took the words completely out of my mouth, I couldn't have said it better :o

ZT Xperimentor1 votes

Having problem getting stacks? Do you ignore the jungle? Those alone give her enough stacks to have a blade of the ruined king for free.

Are you going to blame your team for not warding your jungle? A ranged champion that has a ranged targeted slow with huge chunk damage, a leap that can cross walls while auto attacking anyone in range; should not have problems farming. Unless you're getting counter picked, but then you're team should be helping you regardless.

You're supposed to gank, not invade; you're a marksmen, not an assassin. No wonder you're falling flat on your face. A jungler is usually supposed to give their team winning scrimmages by a number advantage, turning a 2v2 into a 2v3 and so on. Only a few niche champions are supposed to be counter jungling, because they have good dueling and outplay potential, such as shaco. You'll only win a duel if they just stand still, which they won't unless they disconnect.

Oh since you're observant but not willing to change your style, I'll spell it out for you. You notice they back off when you mark them, why not use it as bait to make them avoid a teammate in trouble, then gank somewhere else while the enemy team thinks you're moving towards the marked target. A surprise attack should've been obvious since you want to play like an assassin. Going to play ezreal like a tank next?

Astôlfo5 votes

mmk bud. The ignorance is showing.

First of all, at least half or so of her jungle stacks will be in the enemy jungle. Second of all, her early is complete fucking garbage and her 1v1ing the enemy jungler in early is almost a guaranteed loss for her. Um. You're supposed to do both, as Kindred. And the whole point of her was that you could invade for attempts at stacks on the enemy jungler as well.

But please, keep telling us about everything you're completely clueless about. And no shit, you can bait. It still means no stacks, which means you're worthless come late game except as an ult bot and occasional slow CC bot.

ZT Xperimentor2 votes

Says the guy who downvotes without any proof or reasoning. Did kindred suddenly stop being a marksmen? That's what I thought.

Astôlfo4 votes

Keep talking bud. You're only making a laughingstock of yourself.

ZT Xperimentor2 votes

You keep insulting me like I should care. The only buff kindred needs is a bugfix, end of story.

Astôlfo4 votes

mmk bud. If you don't care, then don't respond? Simple.

But sure, keep crying. End of story. :)

Astôlfo2 votes

??? Why would I bother using smurfs when I'm B4 and don't care about winning or losing?

And you seem to think something like you gets to have a relevant opinion after repeatedly showing your lack of intelligence or knowledge on the matter. That's cute.

Bisaknosp2 votes

na she's okay if she gets early kills/marks she is still an unstoppable force its just not as easy to get to that point which is fine imo

Astôlfo2 votes

Except it's now incredibly difficult for her to get early kills/Marks without accounting for the enemy team players just being blithering idiots due to how hard her stats and abilities were nerfed.

GayFluffyUnicorn2 votes

Kindred mains still maintain a 58% winrate. Much higher than many other champs. So i guess just git gud.

Astôlfo1 votes

Except she's very underplayed and there are very few said mains? Small sample size.

genya032 votes

I don't mind if she gets a small buff.

Teh Song2 votes

There's only one buff I personally feel like Kindred needs (that's not to say shes doesn't actually need more): The enemy team shouldn't see her marks.

Astôlfo1 votes

It's actually beneficial if the enemy team can see the marks.

Teh Song1 votes

I understand the premise of going for somewhere other than where the mark is because in theory the enemy team expects you to go to the mark. I have done that, I have had it work, and I have played against people smart enough to expect it so it didn't work, and I have gone reverse-reverse psychology on those people and started going to my mark where they didn't expect me.

I get it.

But on top of the ability to counter-think each-other and know where Kindred is going/Know that the enemy does/doesn't know where you're going; using the mark as essentialy a caution ping for the enemy while going somewhere else kind of invalidates it's purpose.

I'd rather replace the mind game of whether or not Kindred goes for her marks or somewhere else with simple secrecy of who she has marked in the first place.

After all, it's not only a hunt, but a hunt done by death. The prey of a successful hunter isn't supposed to know it's being hunted until attacked.

Astôlfo2 votes

Except they're not hunters in a literal sense thematically. They're the representation of death. They may not even manifest in the actual "physical" world. Them "killing" someone is just reaping the soul of someone already doomed to die. They're not killing, they're bringing the "death" when someone "dies".

If someone's destined to die, I'm fairly sure they'd realize it sooner or later. Same concept applies here.

But I disagree, she needs more buffs otherwise. Base stats increase and/or return the healing passive albeit to either a lessened amount or requiring longer time to stack would be the two best options, the former more so.

Teh Song1 votes

Hey I'm not saying your wrong about other buffs. As I said to start, "There's only one buff I personally feel like Kindred needs (that's not to say shes doesn't actually need more)"

Just clarifying that, in case you thought I was actually disagreeing with you when I wasn't.

Edit: And I just had a little fail moment and responded to you with this clarification thinking you were OP. All the same.

MiTsuO Akai2 votes

Quinn WELCOME TO OUR WORLD Quinn

Jaygo412 votes

Kindred wins 49% of her games in platinum and above. That is MORE than enough for a champ with a high skill cap. Sorry bro I've just had enough of seeing her EVERY god damn game.

Jhin UItd JFK2 votes

Remember in the beginning of the season where everyone was like "deer rito im tirud ov seeein these same champs all da time its so boring pls gut them so we can go back to the boring tank jg meta" tank jg meta rolls in "deer rito pls gut tank jg meta it is so boring i want 2 see acshun in jg ty"

Literally boards in a nutshell.

Sure Kindred was annoying to deal with early game but all Riot could have done was lower her early base damages instead of giving her the Kalista treatment. Now I hate playing Jungle because it's either pick Rek'Sai, Gragas, or anyone else that is a tank and is overloaded.

Dracocrash1 votes

Kindred really doesn't need buffs. They suck in low ELO sadly, (where I belong) and I only play her in normals, but buffing kindred will break the champion for people who REALLY know how to play them.

GULAG 4 U1 votes

Yusss more free food for mah kha'zix ples!!

Matezoide1 votes

Kindred is fine for people that know how to play her.

Just slighty below average in total, 58% for people that main her. There are a lot of champions in far direr need for buffs.

Hell, Kindred's current win-rate in Plat+ is higher than it ever used to be.

AcademyAhriLover1 votes

BUFF KINDRED AGAIN RIOT PLEASE 42% win rate is bullshit on nerfs.

Ulquiorra9951 votes

She just needs two things to make her decent again:

1.) Q cooldownnerf while in W reverted 2.) On-hit heal back in her kit

They destroyed both her early clear and early sustain. On a champion that absolutely relies on making agressive plays early to be relevant late this is beyond catastrophic. Imagine if they took Lee, cut his Q damage in half and removed his W sustain. Because that is what they've done to Kindred.

Edit: Why the hell is a 4 months old post in recent? Noticed only after I wrote this.

Laçez1 votes

Regarding your last question, I have no idea xD, I saw this and I was like o_0 http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/173/576/Wat8.jpg?1315930535

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