Is there a time when picking Zed mid is a bad choice?

s LessThanThree·Nov 25, 2014·1 votes·2,259 views

I've picked Zed into "hard" counters like Lissandra and still been able to rock lane and carry game even with an intentional feeder / afk on my team. Is there a time when picking Zed would be bad? I can imagine maybe if they have a comp that has 4 tanks or is so hard on targeted cc that you would not survive a single dive.

But what kind of comps are those? What would it look like? The one thing I hear is Leona is the top counter to Zed.

Also wouldn't Bork/Ghostblade/Black Cleaver/GA counter tank comps?

12 Comments

Drunk RummateNov 25, 20141 votes

he struggles versus Ahri and Syndra in lane, he gets outscaled by Orianna and Azir and has trouble denying them farm. He has a pretty poor teamfight in general and his split push isn't great against moderately tanky champions with reasonable waveclear or champions with hourglass. he really struggles against certain supports like janna.

s LessThanThreeNov 25, 20141 votes

Really? I've found Ahri quite easy to outplay as you can predict where her spells will go (especially since she has slow moving projectiles compared to Syndra stun). Syndra is a bit more difficult but you can shadow dodge her stun.

All of those champions you listed can be out played if your mechanics are en pointe. I'm talking about things you just can't outplay no matter how much you try.

Drunk RummateNov 25, 20141 votes

point is that you'll never kill an ahri in lane and she outpushes you at all stages of the game. her teamfight is better as well and if you do ever get hit by a charm, you're dead post-dfg. you can rely on skill to avoid that but it's still a risk.

s LessThanThreeNov 25, 20141 votes

point is that you'll never kill an ahri in lane and she outpushes you at all stages of the game. her teamfight is better as well and if you do ever get hit by a charm, you're dead post-dfg. you can rely on skill to avoid that but it's still a risk.

I don't know. I will disagree. Ahri is very squishy and if you know what you're doing you can dodge her Q and charm. Also, Zed is a very strong pusher and can out poke her. Without charm, she can't do a thing against you, so you can instantly punish her for missing it or bait it out.

TavishNov 25, 20141 votes

There are most certainly poor times to pick Zed. I remember once picking Zed first only to play against a team with Lulu, Ryze, Warwick, Tris and Soraka. That was a bad time.

EDIT: This was a while ago when Raka was a mid. Lulu was sup.

s LessThanThreeNov 25, 20141 votes

There are most certainly poor times to pick Zed. I remember once picking Zed first only to play against a team with Lulu, Ryze, Warwick, Tris and Soraka. That was a bad time.

EDIT: This was a while ago when Raka was a mid. Lulu was sup.

That sounds pretty agonizing. I see your point definitely.

67chromeNov 25, 20141 votes

Also wouldn't Bork/Ghostblade/Black Cleaver/GA counter tank comps?

Nope.

Average game length is 33 minutes, average income per player is 11,000 gold. Which isn't enough to get 4 major items if you account for boots and starting stuff.

If you need those 4 items to deal with a tank - you've given up 100% of your kill-potential over the course of an average game, and you can't contest objectives like Dragon and Baron when team tank goes for them. By the time you can actually afford all your necessary items, team tank has a significant gold lead and you still hit for peanuts against them.

Also, tank items, even now, are still at their strongest in 1~2 major item builds. Give defensive items 100% efficiency rather than the 50% they're balanced around for the first ~66% of a game and it can go sour really fast.

Irony here is you'd need someone like Ziggs mid-lane to stall a game out long enough, reliably enough, to get to 4 major items and deal with a tank comp as full AD.

s LessThanThreeNov 25, 20141 votes

Also wouldn't Bork/Ghostblade/Black Cleaver/GA counter tank comps?

Nope.

Average game length is 33 minutes, average income per player is 11,000 gold. Which isn't enough to get 4 major items if you account for boots and starting stuff.

If you need those 4 items to deal with a tank - you've given up 100% of your kill-potential over the course of an average game, and you can't contest objectives like Dragon and Baron when team tank goes for them. By the time you can actually afford all your necessary items, team tank has a significant gold lead and you still hit for peanuts against them.

Also, tank items, even now, are still at their strongest in 1~2 major item builds. Give defensive items 100% efficiency rather than the 50% they're balanced around for the first ~66% of a game and it can go sour really fast.

Irony here is you'd need someone like Ziggs mid-lane to stall a game out long enough, reliably enough, to get to 4 major items and deal with a tank comp as full AD.

My main is Viktor, and I've found him exceptionally good at dealing with tanks. His insane LichBane synergy as well as ultimate DoT will shred tanks, especially late game. A team has to itemize extremely hard against a fed Viktor to win

67chromeNov 26, 20141 votes

A team has to itemize extremely hard against a fed Viktor to win

You have to itemize pretty hard against a fed anyone to win.

Exploiting armor/MR is more about that never happening in the first place.

CoolKnightSTNov 25, 20141 votes

Does Zed actualy has a counter. It's more counterplay than a counter champion in my opinion. If you can extend the game long enouge where talking about a dead zed. It's all about how well zed can snowball the game. If he can't win his lane he's kinda forced on splitpushing the entire game.

CoffeeHangoverNov 25, 20141 votes

Pick Zed into Malzahar and cry

futuresight23Nov 25, 20141 votes

I'd say that if your mechanics with Zed are strong, you could probably pick Zed into anything and still have a strong shot at winning. It is exceedingly difficult to deny Zed his farm, he is slippery enough to do his work in a teamfight and get out, and if the teamfight looks disasterous for him he can fall back on splitpushing. Zed is very likely to be able to win any 1v1 and is very capable at eluding attempts to pick him off.