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The ban and restriction system needs immediate, severe improvement

s LessThanThree·10/31/2014, 5:50:57 PM·71 votes·15,716 views

After 3-4 years of actively playing this game, I received my first suspension yesterday evening. It's only for 2 weeks so I wouldn't particularly care, but I was in the middle of an excellent win streak (7-0 with Jayce, and only 2 losses overall like 12 games), so after soaring from Plat 5 to Plat 3 over 2 days I was hoping to make it to Diamond before season end. It is not obvious I stand no chance of getting Diamond in Season 4 as my suspension will be lifted November 13th, 2 days after season end.

This thread is not about "I didn't deserve my ban Lyte smite me" or anything, if I got a suspension, I clearly did something wrong and I remember times when I lost my cool, so clearly I deserved it. This thread is about how Riot SERIOUSLY NEEDS to improve the ban system.

For one, e-mail I received from Riot once I got my ban was painfully vague. It did not even state what I got reported for (I'm assuming Verbal Abuse because I never afk or grief).

The ban system is completely broken and flawed, and I am going to explain to you exactly why.

The current system promotes the exact same toxicity that gets people reported and banned. The system is no better than the raging griefers you get matched with or against in Ranked games.

Why? Because it gives you no explanation as to how you can improve. It simply hands out a punishment the same way a rager might call you "trash" or other ways to insult your bad play or intelligence. To call someone out on a bad play is totally fine, as long as you CONSTRUCTIVELY EXPLAIN WHY IT WAS A BAD PLAY. You can say someone is playing like shit, but you absolutely need to seriously provide the other party with a clear way to improve. They need to understand why going to that baron and throwing the game was a mistake. They need to understand what exactly they did wrong. Simply calling someone bad in a game is abuse, while explaining to someone why they are not good thus providing them with areas they can improve upon may be harsh, but it is at least constructive.

This is not what the ban system does, it simply tells you you are suspended and leaves you guessing as to why you were suspended.

I remember times I was a d!ck and times I got angry because people were trash talking me in games. My main mistake was not muting those that were toxic to me. If I just muted rather than replied, I may not have gotten banned and lost my chance at diamond for season 4. However, this is just a guess, as Riot does not provide any evidence for your ban.

To be able to thoroughly improve your behavior and conduct you must know EXACTLY what you did wrong. Why not provide the case that the tribunal reviewed to punish you in the e-mail? Why not show your chat log so you can review the case as if you were a member of the tribunal, like the player was someone else, and decide, would you punish that player for what they did, or forgive?

This kind of self-review is impossible as Riot doesn't explain what you get banned for, and therefore is no better than the toxic players who abuse you and send you on tilt, and cause a cycle of abuse to circulate through the community.

I am generally a positive player who promotes good attitude and knows the secret to victory lies in teamwork, but I admit I can get angry and say some pretty harsh things, and this ban will make me watch my tongue, but really it gives me more of a fear of speech. I would significantly rather see what exactly I said in those games so I can think "Damn, I can't believe I really said that! I was so stupid!" and avoid such behavior in the future.

As someone whose road to Diamond was gimped by a ban, I would much like to see the system improved to facilitate self improvement in the future rather than being a punishment and nothing else.

Toxicity doesn't win games Vayne yes I'm looking at you adc mains

141 Comments

Matthias911910/31/2014, 6:08:23 PM7 votes

You CAN get chat logs, you just have to ask Support for them. Or maybe @RiotLyte will show up here and post some. If you do put in a Support ticket, SPECIFICALLY and DIRECTLY ask for chat logs. If you send them a giant wall of text or vaguely ask "why was I banned?" you'll get back a canned "you were banned for violating the Summoner's code..." type of response.

When Tribunal is back up, punished players will automatically receive a better explanation of what lead to their ban. Riot has stated that right now it is difficult for their staff to manually pull and anonymize chat logs from individual games, which is why they are only doing this if a player specifically asks for them. Otherwise they will end up spending all their time assembling chat logs rather than actually dealing with player issues.

That said, given the length of time that Tribunal has been down they really should have come up with a better system for giving better explanations as to exactly why players were banned.

Eidorno3711/1/2014, 7:39:09 AM6 votes

I just got a 2-week ban too, my third one, no idea why. I just make a new account and take my anger out on new players. That's what I'm supposed to do, right?

s LessThanThree10/31/2014, 6:14:18 PM6 votes

I hope you are right Matthias9119. I would like to see what I said in particular. I know I said something, but it is important to see what.

I certainly hope the ban system is not automated (cuz that just allows people to group up on you).

If it's done by staff members, I don't know if it's the best considering they are gonna have a lot of reports to deal with so it won't get thoroughly review.

To be honest the Tribunal was a better system than the current one.

ValyrianBlade10/31/2014, 6:01:08 PM5 votes

The tribunal is not currently active.

I would assume you're not told exactly why because it may lead to people figuring out exactly what they can get away with and pushing things to the limit, getting retaliation and overall hurting the game experience.

That said, I still upvoted. I think, if what you say is true, riot could give a better indication of what was wrong. It would definitely at least reduce confusion.

Overall though, there is a huge difference between being a generally positive player and actually having a positive attitude. I'd imagine those in the latter never have any problems.

Yoella11/1/2014, 6:45:17 PM3 votes

Toxicity doesn't win gamesVayne yes I'm looking at you adc mains

Oh. My. God. This is so true, I know one friendly person who mains ADC and every other person I've come across that claims to "main ADC" has been a dick on a stick.

Nucleophilic atk10/31/2014, 6:33:06 PM3 votes

I also think the system is heavily flawed, mostly from the support end. Even when you send a support ticket you get no response back. It is highly frustrating. I received a chat restriction, which was deserved, then completed my games only to receive another one. I don't think I was toxic at all during those games, so I asked to see the logs as to why they think I deserved another ban. I get nothing. Not getting any type of insight as to why you were banned really just makes you go into a "I'm just not going to talk, mute all my teammates, and lose games from lack of communication" rather than just seeing what was the exact reason you were banned, at least in my opinion.

PimperGnome10/31/2014, 8:29:21 PM3 votes

"You can say someone is playing like shit" um...no...you can't.

"while explaining to someone why they are not good thus providing them with areas they can improve upon may be harsh, but it is at least constructive." No...it's not. After the game sending messages about things you noticed they can attempt to do to improve is one thing...sitting there explaining "why they are not good" is another.

"This is not what the ban system does, it simply tells you you are suspended and leaves you guessing as to why you were suspended." - I have never seen this to be the case EVER. People know when they berate...people know when they keep DCing...pure and simple.

"I am generally a positive player who promotes good attitude and knows the secret to victory lies in teamwork, but I admit I can get angry and say some pretty harsh things, and this ban will make me watch my tongue, but really it gives me more of a fear of speech. I would significantly rather see what exactly I said in those games so I can think "Damn, I can't believe I really said that! I was so stupid!" and avoid such behavior in the future. " - No offense...but you already said telling people they're terrible and that they're 'enter bad word here' is ok. No...it's not ok. You already know EXACTLY what you can do to not be banned again.

SmokingPuffin10/31/2014, 8:31:22 PM3 votes

To call someone out on a bad play is totally fine, as long as you CONSTRUCTIVELY EXPLAIN WHY IT WAS A BAD PLAY. You can say someone is playing like shit, but you absolutely need to seriously provide the other party with a clear way to improve. They need to understand why going to that baron and throwing the game was a mistake. They need to understand what exactly they did wrong. Simply calling someone bad in a game is abuse, while explaining to someone why they are not good thus providing them with areas they can improve upon may be harsh, but it is at least constructive.

Don't do this. 9 times out of 10 it will only make the situation worse.

I remember times I was a d!ck and times I got angry because people were trash talking me in games. My main mistake was not muting those that were toxic to me. If I just muted rather than replied, I may not have gotten banned and lost my chance at diamond for season 4. However, this is just a guess, as Riot does not provide any evidence for your ban.

Right. This is a significant downside to the new system. The old Tribunal system had reform cards that you could look at to see examples of what you did wrong.

I am generally a positive player who promotes good attitude and knows the secret to victory lies in teamwork, but I admit I can get angry and say some pretty harsh things, and this ban will make me watch my tongue, but really it gives me more of a fear of speech. I would significantly rather see what exactly I said in those games so I can think "Damn, I can't believe I really said that! I was so stupid!" and avoid such behavior in the future.

I have noticed many people are reporting this speech chilling effect under the new system. It's something Riot should look into mitigating.

ModUlanopo10/31/2014, 9:40:06 PM3 votes

As someone whose road to Diamond was gimped by a ban, I would much like to see the system improved to facilitate self improvement in the future rather than being a punishment and nothing else.

Warnings and chat restrictions are used when Riot believes that there is a meaningful chance of reform. These 2-week bans are explicitly used as a "last chance" before permanent account closure. They are applied because the frequency or intensity of the behavior (or a combination of the two) leads them to believe that the likelihood of reform is low and the damage that is being done to the community warrants a strong response.

CoolKnightST11/1/2014, 5:48:06 PM3 votes

In my opinion their are 3 sort of flamers:

  • Unfocussed Flamers (often jungle or top): Players that outplay/win their lane or their position. Thinking the game is already won. They let their guard down and get ganked or catched by the enemy team.
  • Carried Flamers (often midlane or adc): Players that get carried by their jungler or support not realizing they get carried. Than in a later stage of the game. They get outplayed because the enemy was just more skilled than them.
  • Suppress Flamers (often support): Players that previously had a fell lost games because someone afk, trolled or just did something that shouldn't be tolerated in that ELO. Than someone afk, trolls or does something stupid.

In both 3 cases the player deserves a report. However people tend to counter report other players that report them for their behavior. But they don't stop their. For a while now I start to notice players start to abuse the report system even further by reporting players that just have a bad game or play a role where they are not that familiar with.

But they don't stop their. People start to realise. The only way to see punishment to a player is to report them for verbal abuse. Whenever they troll, afk or just don't like them in chat. Now with the ranked restrictions it became even more attractive to abuse the function.

A example: In my last 10 games I decided to pratice my worst role (adc). I had some lags so my game didn't go that well. I tried to focus on the game and in most games I didn't even say a word. Most of them where flamers anyway. It even came that far I starting to use the ignore button. After my 10th game I recieved a warning I was reported for verbal abuse a fell times the last fell games...

This was just proof that players prefer the verbal abuse button. There really should be placed a punishment on it.

My IGN Sucks10/31/2014, 9:50:42 PM2 votes

It all boils down to the lack of specificity. Riot doesn't want to outline specific behaviors that are deemed toxic because they want the community to decide. Well, that's exactly what the Tribunal was for. Their philosophy worked when the Tribunal was up and running, not so much when they took it down.

Absozero10/31/2014, 9:57:31 PM2 votes

I agree. I had a similar terrible experience yesterday with a 2 week ban.

I'm not sure I qualify as an "extreme case of toxicity". I'm an openly gay Atheist and often times when someone says fag, homo, gay, etc, I tend to say something in chat, usually by self identifying as a gay man. Especially as a gay man living with HIV. Often times, people flame me more and then report me after those games. I'm afraid that your system is wrongly blaming the victim in these instances of "mob mentality" that I often run into in league. Open your mouth, critique a word or call in game and the mob comes for you with the "report" button.

I'm disappointed that this is how you are choosing to conduct your business.

ModUlanopo10/31/2014, 9:35:01 PM2 votes

To be able to thoroughly improve your behavior and conduct you must know EXACTLY what you did wrong.

Reform cards will be returning with the new tribunal.

Happy Jack11/1/2014, 6:29:58 PM2 votes

Agreed w/ OP for the most part. I wrote a post about some of the improvements here;

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/GD/UwReYsGe-recent-account-suspensions-poorly-implemented

SlayerofLegends11/1/2014, 2:34:41 AM2 votes

Sorry if this is old, sounding like the standard rager complaining, off-topic or I'm just misinformed.

I've been almost-consecutively hit by three 2-week bans in the past 3 months (as in, with a gap of around 2 days). Although I will honestly and completely admit that I was pretty damn toxic in my previous games before the first ban, I have not done something I feel is even NEAR what can be considered "extreme toxicity".

Is it far, far easier to be banned subsequently after your original ban? If this is the case I think the margin should be.. raised? Because honestly, I played two games after my second ban, and both of them were unparalleled successes.

I've sent some questions to support but they just send me chat logs from pre-first-ban. I'm honestly not sure.

Chaos Anagram11/1/2014, 6:07:32 AM2 votes

Hey @anyRioterlistening are we going to get our season rewards? the banned people that is. I know i was toxic, but that doesn't mean I didn't work all year THROUGH the toxicity of other players to end up empty handed because I was on tilt and some 13 year old kid ticked me off. people get mad, I've seen Riot employees in my games do it, I've seen grown adults do it. Why do we get punished and lose our rewards because a single ban when our accounts haven't previously been banned.

Also look into CST Sheep's chat logs 3 days ago in a ranked 5's game around this time, If you want to see toxic. he straight up told a friend of mine who was streaming "your mom's P**** rides on my stolen acct." thats okay and should be pardoned though right?

Vestroy11/1/2014, 5:16:40 PM2 votes

Well some of the system is in place just for placebo. For example, the unskilled player option....just there so people can vent and feel better if they had a bad ADC or tank for example.

Troll for Trump11/1/2014, 5:33:20 PM2 votes

Automation on Chat Restrictions in small increments are Op.

s LessThanThree10/31/2014, 6:32:06 PM2 votes

There have been times I've been jokingly raging at someone who was raging back, and things like that, and there have been times I've said something like "Fiora is trash lol" 10 minutes after she would non-stop harass half the team in all-chat to the point where I had to mute her to concentrate, and then get reported for the one joking comment I said to the Talon that was also harassed by her. Which doesn't really seem fair.

Do the reviewers only take what you say into consideration and is there a factor of "how much were you provoked? vs what you said?"

I know it's not right to get angry ever but honestly there have been people that say things A LOT WORSE than what I say, and still have gone without bans or chat restrictions

Verminous11/1/2014, 1:07:26 AM1 votes

Well another problem is now you have to be careful about even joking around. Like you can't say something jokingly. Like you I understand I do get annoyed at bad players so I accept my 2 week ban, but I believe the main issue were a couple jokes I made in a recent hexakill game. I just so happen to call Tryndamere, Tryndaqueer which they find to be homophobic even though I didn't mean it that way as I do have friends who are gay, bi, and lesbian.

Then there's the fact that I said jokingly(which I was playing Ziggs) "I'm gonna bomb you so hard you'll look like Hiroshima." So that classified as racist even though it wasn't meant in any racist way. In fact I didn't even get reported that game that I remember because people understood I wasn't serious. Why would I be racist and have friends of severl different ethnicities? Anyway I do understand I deserved it for getting annoyed with certain players, but not all the reasons they noted.

Zen Fury10/31/2014, 7:19:32 PM1 votes

If you got a two week suspension, then it isn't your first. Either that, or you did/said something that was so bad or were reported an ungodly number of times that they thought you needed a 2 week ban to cool your heels.