Can drakes win games

BLACK REALM GOD··2 votes·976 views

Just played a ranked match and got my team 5 dragons with a helpful save on one ocean drake from cho'gath. Now I realize that in bronze sometimes winning is based on luck, but I'm sick of being flamed for my ideas so here's another quick survey. As a side note the argument came up when a teammate started harassing me for taking a drake over defending a tower. I replied by saying that the drake is forever and the tower is only gold. We went on to win the game by securing a total of 4 drakes and 1 elder dragon 2 barons 10 towers by end game. First tower fell at 14:09 thanks to cho'gath again netting a large portion of free gold. At 27 wards placed I had the highest ward placement rating on our team. Second only to soraka on the enemy team. I was met with resistance and hatred upon asking for help to take rift warden leading to my death as I reluctantly tried to solo it at 18:30 bringing its health to 1/4th before dying. We won with a maxed out at 40 minute gold deficiency of almost 12k. So tell me. Do drakes win games or turret defense when youre losing?

edit

match history here

http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2288419939/37986817?tab=overview

32 Comments

RogueWill3 votes

Follow this guide: Nexus Inhibitors Turrets Baron Drake Kills Buffs CS

If you see the enemy pressuring 2 points you defend the ones on the top first and work your way towards the bottom.

BLACK REALM GOD1 votes

obviously nexus is at top, but how do you determine the value of the rest?

oSEXYPLATYPUSo2 votes

well if they take buffs owell if they get a kill that can create pressure to take drake/baron but if they dont get turrets they cant get inhibs and they dont get inhibs they cant get the nexus. people on the game fight to much for nothing just cuz they like the KDAs. only real reason to fight is to take an objective or to protect an objective . ie gank lane to get a kill to secure turret or drake. fight at baron to keep enemy from taking.

now getting kills and getting a gold lead can make those things easier. lower level players are bad about pushing leads and let games draw out too much and it ends up going 30+ mins where every one is full build and the gold lead dont matter. all it takes then is a fight and who ever wins to push with the long death timers. lower level players ( im including myself before some says hey you dont know shit your were just silver) are bad about rotations and creating pressure else where on maps. this is what you see in pro play.

BLACK REALM GOD1 votes

in the grand scheme of winning - which is about destroying the nexus - you have to become stronger than your opponent in some way. whether that way be through stats or pressure is entirely up to the teams. gold and xp will give you stats while objectives provide pressure. however i feel that permanent buffs - such as drake - when quickly farmed can provide both leading to overall more power.

as i said further down drakes provide a permanent buff that is forever. you will never get that drake back. never. no matter how many drakes spawn you might not even get CLOSE to that same drake back if another drake of the same species doesnt spawn. turrets on the other hand are static gold. 100% always there and can always be lost. no variables what so ever besides who takes first tower. they do nothing but provide gold, xp and vision - vision being the most important part. yes they also deal damage, but that damage is easy to manipulate and can be used against you.

personally i fail to see how anything other than the nexus towers and the nexus matter. the inhibitor respawns and the lane turrets do nothing special. in fact because of the extreme value of the larger minions i would say that sometimes it's actually a good thing to lose an inhibitor. especially if you have some low level squishies on your team who are behind and need the gold and xp from the safety of their base.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votes

but by getting turrets or protecting turrets creates control and map pressure, its easier to get drake if you have taken bot turret. and more so you are blue side bot and you took turret and you have a wave pushing cuz if worst comes to worst and you have to bail from drake you have your turret right there thru tri bush to save you and/or you can escape over the pit into your jungle. let alone if you have turrets and map control you can invade and ward deeper and take their buffs/camps making them have less resources of gold. and the gold income you get for turrets gives you a lead that you can get items and if you have more gold you have more items means you have more power/damage.

BLACK REALM GOD1 votes

so in other words at the start of the game turrets are better.

but now what about an almost broken turret?

what about when your team is behind in gold already?

think about it. in a perfect game no one is ahead, but what if the enemies are already ahead with a gold advantage?

oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votes

then if someone has a gold advantage then they are in the lead. and if you are behind you have to wait and see where you can take a risk with the lowest possibility of going bad. like lets say you are behind in lane and the mid/jungler roams bot and kills your bot lane while they are taking turret that puts them ahead what can your top/jungler/mid do?

most of the time every one runs across the map to try to fight getting nothing. or a kill or two while giving up a kill? but what if top lane pushes hard and roams mid and jungler roams as well and the 3 pressure mid get a turret in return and then can secure rift? or go top for top turret and create a kill? if you watch pro play when ever this is a team taking something they are losing something in return, its just a matter of what is important at the time.

league is a game of counters. you counter pick champs/lanes/comps/ you counter play the enemy if they do this you do that ect. or simpler would be rock paper scissors. on the basic levels.

most see league as a game of checkers when its a game of chess. this is what really separates the best and the rest

( see LCK vs NA )

BLACK REALM GOD1 votes

as a jungler against an entire team with the option of taking a dragon by yourself or defending an almost broken turret i will choose the drake every time unless the turret is the one defending my nexus. the amount of gold you get from a turret is not equal to the buffs you get from drake if you were to buy them with gold.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votes

[{quoted}](name=BLACK REALM GOD,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=smN4Tn0c,comment-id=00030000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-09-09T08:20:17.514+0000)

as a jungler against an entire team with the option of taking a dragon by yourself or defending an almost broken turret i will choose the drake every time unless the turret is the one defending my nexus. the amount of gold you get from a turret is not equal to the buffs you get from drake if you were to buy them with gold.

well like i said there is always a give and take to it. as long as you arent giving up for free.

BLACK REALM GOD1 votes

at least you agree with me on some front

RogueWill1 votes

[{quoted}](name=BLACK REALM GOD,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=smN4Tn0c,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2016-09-09T06:49:12.403+0000)

obviously nexus is at top, but how do you determine the value of the rest?

It gets determined of how much they offer on the macro play value. Inhibitors produce super minions, shoving lanes so they take priority after nexus. Turrets provides vision and map control which in time translates in more control of the lesser objectives. Then comes baron and dragon, baron is higher simply because his buff stands alone while drake (which is theoretically better) you need to stack it up. The kills/Buffs/CS can be exchanged depending on your lane, this was made with jungle on mind but a top laner for example will put buffs at the bottom and an adc will put cs at the top.

That is assuming you can defend the objective, for example Sejuani has no possibilities to defending a siege at 4v1 or 3v1, even 2v1 sieges are hard for her, so if the enemy can only take 1 turret before your team respawn you can look to trade objectives, objectively you would want at least a tower on other side of the map but by using the list you can decide what is convenient to take, some people decide that just catching the huge wave used to push your turret is enough as objective. If enemy will take two turrets trying to distract (even if you end up dying) will always be the best course of action.

BLACK REALM GOD1 votes

Okay. I think I made the right choice 90% of the time. The turret lost was middle first tower. I would have probably died defending it netting no gain. I also was able to prevent the enemies from getting any drakes dragons or barons. I feel more confident in my actions now.

Angry Monster1 votes

that list is way to far from being an absolute.

Mistress Shyvana2 votes

Drakes are good. But don't give up towers. That's global gold for the enemy and less defense for you.

Now if the opportunity arises go for the dragon because they do help but it's not an Auto-win.

BLACK REALM GOD1 votes

my options were to either solo v 4 under turret or take a drake and lose a tower.

ItsOrval2 votes

One tower isnt much gold tho. Thats about 5 minions worth of gold for one champ. Enough to buy a vision ward and health pot xd

oSEXYPLATYPUSo2 votes

objective control is what wins games, buffs, drakes, rift herald , baron, wards, turrets.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votes

lol downvoted for saying objective control is what wins games.

wow when we are all here saying that.

Keepe1 votes

I'd say it depends on the drake. Specifically the Infernal.

If the enemy team has ONE infernal, you're still fine. If they have TWO, you're in a uphill battle. They have three... Don't. Bother.

BLACK REALM GOD1 votes

ocean drake gives regeneration for mana and hp.

mountain drake gives more damage to turrets and monsters.

cloud drake gives out of combat movement speed.

infernal drake gives additional ability power and... what else?

fill them in for me someone.

Keepe1 votes

Ocean gives regen for Mana nd HP based on missing HP and Mana while not being hit by champions.

Mountain gives a percentage of the damage you deal to turrets and monsters as True Damage.

Cloud Drake gives out of combat movement speed. (Most meh of the drakes.)

Infernal gives a plus 6/12/24% to your ability power and attack damage. Think of it like a Rabby passive for both AD and AP.

Dehitay1 votes

It's actually towers that are forever. Drakes keep coming back. I would only sacrifice an outer tower for drake. Those are probly going to go down regardless of what you do. But towers are the path to victory. Drakes are buffs. And buffs are only an advantage in an even fight which a smart team isn't going to try to engage in.

BLACK REALM GOD1 votes

the drakes keep coming back yes to a point, but that isnt the argument i was making. the buff you get from the dragon is forever and doesnt require you to do anything with it in order to put it into effect. it prevents someone from taking drake on the other side which will permanently cause them to have something you do not. turrets can be destroyed on both ends evenly so the lead that you get from destroying a turret is only temporary and can be earned back by farming minions. you cant get mountain drake buffs from anywhere but mountain drakes.

FioraWillCarry1 votes

[{quoted}](name=BLACK REALM GOD,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=smN4Tn0c,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-09-09T06:29:32.643+0000)

Just played a ranked match and got my team 5 dragons with a helpful save on one ocean drake from cho'gath. Now I realize that in bronze sometimes winning is based on luck, but I'm sick of being flamed for my ideas so here's another quick survey. As a side note the argument came up when a teammate started harassing me for taking a drake over defending a tower. I replied by saying that the drake is forever and the tower is only gold. We went on to win the game by securing a total of 4 drakes and 1 elder dragon 2 barons 10 towers by end game. First tower fell at 14:09 thanks to cho'gath again netting a large portion of free gold. At 27 wards placed I had the highest ward placement rating on our team. Second only to soraka on the enemy team. I was met with resistance and hatred upon asking for help to take rift warden leading to my death as I reluctantly tried to solo it at 18:30 bringing its health to 1/4th before dying. We won with a maxed out at 40 minute gold deficiency of almost 12k. So tell me. Do drakes win games or turret defense when youre losing?

edit

match history here

http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2288419939/37986817?tab=overview

Dragons don't mean 1 lick of shit in Bronze 5 mate. What you should focus on instead if why you died 13 times that game. If your goal is to climb out of there, you should stop doing that. Dragons probably start to become vital at Gold or higher I'm willing to bet. In Bronze 5, no one really knows what they are doing at all. They are making soooo many mistakes that whatever advantage a dragon or two gives is pissed away.

BLACK REALM GOD1 votes

my 13 deaths - our marksman bottom was afk because they didnt connect to the match - so im blaming some of if not all of my executions on that person. a leash matters. top chose to play a basic attack heavy champion against teemo and kept requesting aid from me a self buffing basic attack champion - so im blaming that on that person. i outwarded my support and was unable to use my smite for the true damage buff - so im blaming that on that person as it cost me at least 3 trades with my enemies in 1v1's by a margin of on average 20-100 hp depending on level. the rest are just part of the leveling progression and xp. there were very few times when i chose to go against an enemy that was levels above me or groups of enemies thinking that i might get a kill and end up dying. you can count my deaths on the list. they dont add up to 13. executions are not included. teemo accounted for a majority of my deaths and rightly so. it's hard to fight him when you're a basic attack reliant champion and he's ahead by such a margin. by 11:50 teemo had a needlessly large rod + aether wisp + basic boots + sapphire crystal. that's a lot of gold to have by 12 minutes in a bronze match. i know i was behind, but i didnt even get my smite item fully built till 12:30. look at the builds and the gold earned per lane and you can get a better idea about what happened. once teemo had free reign to leave his lane he started hunting me down and killing me at my jungle camps by way of his passive his Q and his R. with no way of sustaining against him i was easily dispatched.

FioraWillCarry1 votes

[{quoted}](name=BLACK REALM GOD,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=smN4Tn0c,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2016-09-09T10:00:41.872+0000)

my 13 deaths - our marksman bottom was afk because they didnt connect to the match - so im blaming some of if not all of my executions on that person. a leash matters. top chose to play a basic attack heavy champion against teemo and kept requesting aid from me a self buffing basic attack champion - so im blaming that on that person. i outwarded my support and was unable to use my smite for the true damage buff - so im blaming that on that person as it cost me at least 3 trades with my enemies in 1v1's by a margin of on average 20-100 hp depending on level. the rest are just part of the leveling progression and xp. there were very few times when i chose to go against an enemy that was levels above me or groups of enemies thinking that i might get a kill and end up dying. you can count my deaths on the list. they dont add up to 13. executions are not included. teemo accounted for a majority of my deaths and rightly so. it's hard to fight him when you're a basic attack reliant champion and he's ahead by such a margin. by 11:50 teemo had a needlessly large rod + aether wisp + basic boots + sapphire crystal. that's a lot of gold to have by 12 minutes in a bronze match. i know i was behind, but i didnt even get my smite item fully built till 12:30. look at the builds and the gold earned per lane and you can get a better idea about what happened. once teemo had free reign to leave his lane he started hunting me down and killing me at my jungle camps by way of his passive his Q and his R. with no way of sustaining against him i was easily dispatched.

Well this is a good start. Now try thinking of ways to avoid these kinds of deaths. You whole play style should evolve with enough practice with this in mind.

BLACK REALM GOD1 votes

i dont understand how it's going to change anything. i already knew these things from approximately 20 seconds after the moment they happened. i couldnt predict them no, but once the game loaded and i saw the situation at hand i tried my best. eventually we won and i had to put up with a lot of hatred coming my way. a lot of flame. and in the end i was told i was carried by someone who was afk for the first 4 minutes of the game even though they had more deaths than me and did very little in terms of objective capture, but instead was focused more on personal gain of statistics. i'd have been just as complacent if we had karthus on our team dying every few seconds to get a 2 for 1 or 1 for 1 kill. it's the same concept. karthus becomes fed while everyone else falls behind due to lack of gold being distributed to his allies while his opponents reap in gold and xp from his deaths. magic resist is purchased and karthus 22/10 loses the game. it's super annoying. at least my deaths were rewarded with global return as opposed to a 1 for 1 investment. the amount of frustration i endured when being ignored for rift herald was awful. that was a permanent buff that we lost for no reason. having it explode in my face and then being executed and called feeder/noob/etc. from someone who every time they'd die would use the bad connection excuse was just something that i dont think anyone should have to put up with. especially when requesting aid from that person just to have them make fun of you then ignore you.

FioraWillCarry1 votes

[{quoted}](name=BLACK REALM GOD,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=smN4Tn0c,comment-id=0005000000000000,timestamp=2016-09-09T10:30:20.593+0000)

i dont understand how it's going to change anything. i already knew these things from approximately 20 seconds after the moment they happened. i couldnt predict them no, but once the game loaded and i saw the situation at hand i tried my best. eventually we won and i had to put up with a lot of hatred coming my way. a lot of flame. and in the end i was told i was carried by someone who was afk for the first 4 minutes of the game even though they had more deaths than me and did very little in terms of objective capture, but instead was focused more on personal gain of statistics. i'd have been just as complacent if we had karthus on our team dying every few seconds to get a 2 for 1 or 1 for 1 kill. it's the same concept. karthus becomes fed while everyone else falls behind due to lack of gold being distributed to his allies while his opponents reap in gold and xp from his deaths. magic resist is purchased and karthus 22/10 loses the game. it's super annoying. at least my deaths were rewarded with global return as opposed to a 1 for 1 investment. the amount of frustration i endured when being ignored for rift herald was awful. that was a permanent buff that we lost for no reason. having it explode in my face and then being executed and called feeder/noob/etc. from someone who every time they'd die would use the bad connection excuse was just something that i dont think anyone should have to put up with. especially when requesting aid from that person just to have them make fun of you then ignore you.

Whoa whoa whoa. You're over thinking this. You're getting way too worked up over what your allies do and say. In Bronze 5 your allies are barely worth anything. They're only good for providing pressure and distraction in team fights so you can kill them all. This is what you need to focus on, how do you kill them and carry. I get to play in B4/B5 sometimes queueing with B5 friends and I never give two shits about what anyone does because I know you cannot rely on them. What I do instead is try to create circumstances where my allies can do what needs to be done which usually means killing the enemy team mercilessly. Now my allies are free to take towers, dragons, baron, inhibs, whatever. This is how you win in low Bronze. Get strong, kill the enemy and let your team do the easy stuff afterwards.

And don't listen to what they say. Earlier today I lost a couple games and my PC was giving some trouble which resulted in more losses due to me being AFK. My MMR tanked till I was facing all Bronze teams. One of my games I had a Kindred who kept dying over and over again and blaming me. He was constantly on my case, flaming me and shit. I didn't care much. I just kept playing. I'm Silver, why the hell would I let some low Bronze noobshit get to me with his asshole attitude. As far as I'm concerned he should be honored to have me on his team and he would eventually realize that when I start carrying his noob ass. And carry I did. I carried hard and he didn't say a word after we won. He just left silently. Though he was an ass to me all game, I got the last laugh because he realized just how outclassed he was. He could only bow out in shame.

You should have this attitude and stop caring about flamers and such. They are always gonna be noobs with that attitude while you will get better and surpass them. You need to focus on learning how. Trust me, B5 is a lot easier to carry than you might believe. You're just over thinking it and expecting too much of your allies. B5-B2 is about farming, getting stronger than everyone and killing everybody. It's that simple and easy to do at that level.

BLACK REALM GOD1 votes

I guess man. Positional advantage means a lot though. My mmr is probably awful. And being a bronze v member with a connection that can't be helped (I've reached out to riot several times and they've told me it's just something I can't help) a low win rate ratio and hardly any ranked matches played for my 6 years on again off again relationship with this game when I do play all anyone ever gives me is hate. Do you at least like my build?

BLACK REALM GOD1 votes

do you at least like my build for yorick jungler?

Maximum Morde1 votes

Is Mordekaiser in the game? Cause, a dragon pet can lead to some wicked objective snowballing, especially an Elder Dragon. I'm comfortable trading one of my towers for a dragon pet cause that has often led to baron + multiple towers for my team.

BLACK REALM GOD1 votes

he wasnt in this particular game, but you bring up another good point. mordekaiser is specifically meant to kill drakes. i like his new dragon force passive. it makes him so unique

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