Here you go Riot - Patch "to do" list

Whisper87··7 votes·470 views
  1. Remove Aftershock from Resolve tree and replace it with an option that provides self shielding or a burst of HP regen and no damage. --Tanks don't need to be good in general just good at tanking damage.

  2. Remove or nerf demolition - this needs to be a niche pick designed for someone who is going to be pushing in or split pushing a lot, but not something that will allow tanks to chunk towers. Like something you'd take on Renekton or Illaoi, not Maokai. Again, tanks don't need to be more viable in other ways, just more viable AS TANKS.

  3. Put fortification back on bot tower, but only at like 30-40% strength. --Bot lane too much of a 4-5 man clown fiesta, especially if an infernal or mountain drake spawns. If it takes a bit longer to take bot tower, maybe the 4 man gank will only result in drake also falling afterward like 50% of the time instead of like 80-90%.

  4. Make tower first blood worth about 75% what it currently is. --(see #3) too much snowball off bot lane 4 man gank. If every game is either 1)smash bot lane, or 2) get a small lead then smash bot lane...This ruins game diversity. (Riot hoped to open up a variety of strats thinking that putting herald top and then making some drake options that are less useful, but removing fortification from bot tower kind of just undoes that because of the value in tower first blood.

  5. Nerf herald (both it's combat abilities and it's hp).-- (see #3-4) Too much snowball out of bot lane focus; boring when 90% of games revolve around punishing bot lane. If you make herald easier to take, but then nerf it so that it's also not so strong an objective, it becomes a viable "trade down" for that bot lane 4 man gank. Our hope is that with the changes in 3,4, and 5 you might one day see a world where a mid laner teleports or roams as much as they go into bot. And this could curb the gigantic snowball off the 4 man gank bot. And TP might not be a 100% take on top laners! #gamediversity

  6. Tone down poke damage and passive HP regen from items/ocean drake --Poke skills are packing so much heat right now, it doesn't feel all that different from burst (ya'll know that feel when a 0/0/0 Ezreal pop's you with just a Q for 25% of your hp). But we don't want to nerf poke into extinction again. So first you nerf poke burst through runes or champ hits. THEN you nerf passive HP regen greatly on Tiamat items, Specter's Cowl, Righteous Glory, and even a LITTLE on support items. Leave Warmog's and Adaptive Helm alone since those are items specifically built to counter poke or create fights regularly. Righteous Glory already counters poke with it's use ability so it doesn't need a lot of regen. There is no reason items being built for team fighting or laning/split pushing also need to counter poke coming into the mid and late game (My suggestion is to put a slight 3-4 second delay on the regen much like what Ocean drake has, just shorter. This way the passive regen can still help you in lane sustain, but not to sustain through consistent poke in the mid game). Ocean also needs a slight nerf. This drake transitions between feeling useless and feeling broken. Buff the mana regen and nerf the HP regen, that way it is a little less value in general, but arguably MORE value in situations where you know how to abuse a mana advantage. By combining these changes you tone down the sheer burst of poke, but it remains viable because the damage sticks more, potentially even into tanks if they are building for engage or like say a Maokai wants to build Spirit Visage for team fights rather than Adaptive Helm, boom you can still poke him out. Poke is able to maintain relevance.

  7. Rework Press the Attack -this can be done in a few different ways, but maybe going back to something along the lines of Fervor but gate it by making stacks fall off over time or something like that. Precision tree is supposed to be about sustained damage, and it says something about the stay of the game when the way you make auto attacking champions maintain relevance is by giving them a burst option. There needs to be room in the game for champions without burst damage to function. Might also want to take a look at reworking Lethal Tempo (my suggestion is making it work against towers and non-epic monsters for like half value). This way it helps auto attackers find early-mid game relevance without just bypassing their weak combat stage, and it shouldn't be too OP since towers would be more buff and it wouldn't let you take Baron or drakes faster. Just let you have a comeback window if you manage to find some alone time with a tower, or accelerate your farm slightly if you are having to share jungle farm to catch up.

  8. Towers Again - #1 make tier 2 towers take 5% less damage and have 250 more hp per tier 1 tower left alive (so 10% damage reduction with 500 extra HP max). This way a split pusher just sitting in one lane is not as efficient, the team will actually have to swap and play BOTH side lanes. We've found that this style of play is more gated by champ select than by decision making, and this makes it more cerebral than just picking a strong laner and becoming good at him/her. Potentially this could open up drake or Herald takes during transitions. BUT, it is also a small enough buff that if your team decides to make a multi-man push onto a tier 2 as planned play it won't make a big enough difference to stop that from happening (If you 4 man invade their blue buff and kill bot duo and jungle you should still be able to push up and get significant damage onto or kill the tier 2). #2 - Inhibitor and nexus towers - allow the stacking damage buff to gain an extra 3 stacks. We don't want to straight up buff tower damage because tower diving needs to be in the game to keep it healthy. But this way if someone dives like a monkey and misses a skillshot and then screws up aggro juggling they can maybe get punished for it. For instance if a Alistar flashes in and then you flash, so then he makes the greedy choice to try and W-Q combo you, if he misses the combo he shouldn't be able to just walk out of their after getting outplayed then screwing up shortly after.

You'll notice the theme of mostly very specific nerfs and buffs that are fairly small. The idea is to make snowballing a lead less of a no brainer and more cerebral. The rather than nerfing snowball by just nerfing lethality, or making gold gain different, or changing item costs/stats, or "nerfing damage" like so many people are calling for. You make the game decision based. The threat of ending the game in 15 minutes is still there like it is now, but you have to keep making good decisions like you did the first 8-10 minutes of the game. When you lose it will because you got outplayed consistently, not because the enemy team made 1 big play. The stalling/turtling mechanics listed above can be overcome with good decisions. You have to build correctly, learn how to make winning trades and losing trades (in terms of objectives), how to deny those trades, how to play around both side lanes when necessary. The other focus is on re-establishing value in specific champion identity instead of everything revolving around bursting champs or towers down. You will have to understand what your champions are good at and how that translates into a win condition. No more "well we just kill them early, then we take 1-2 objectives while they are dead for free, then we just keep killing them".

I guess the best way to put it is that the game just a tiny bit less snowbally, but MUCH less straight forward. Think of achieving a win as unlocking all the doors to a mansion so your team can flood in. We aren't adding or removing doors, just giving every single door it's own unique key.

6 Comments

Invidie2 votes

you forgot to mention, balance item prices

Whisper872 votes

I think if you make the changes I stated above you won't need to directly hit champion damage power curves from items or runes. Except for the small nerf to poke and Aftershock.

The goal is not to make certain types of champs less viable. We don't want people never playing crit building auto attack ADC's because they hardly ever come online (I'm assuming this is what you are talking about since most people seem to be complaining about the cost of those items). What we are looking at is rather than directly nerfing certain classes, we are asking the various classes and specific types of champions to play to their win condition. You do this by not homogenizing the various win conditions into 1 repetitive win condition of burst damage into 1 big objective play into becoming a stat ball.

The goal is to slow the pace of the game in instances where one team is not very, very consistently making good decisions. What I see a lot of on the boards right now is non ADC players complaining about ADC power curve and item cost, but forgetting that YOU GET AN ADC TOO. I'm sorry but the game is not designed to be solo carried. Let's just say for sake of argument you main a Syndra. Your job is not just to get so fed in and of itself. That's why the game feels snowbally because getting fed feels like the objective. You need to roam bot to delay the enemy ADC. Gank for your top lane and tell him to build Righteous Glory second so you can clap the enemy ADC. Pair up with your jungle and invade for deep vision, buying time for your whole team, including your ADC.

GETTING FED IS SUPPOSED TO HELP YOU GET OBJECTIVES, NOT BECOME A STAND ALONE OBEJCTIVE ITSELF . Every game is just a race to outstat the other team right now.

Invidie1 votes

im talking about adc items, too cheap

Whisper872 votes

Yeah, I addressed that in my last response. If you make ADC items so expensive that the carry hardly ever hits their 3 item spike, they will be nerfed out of the game.

We don't want changes that will result in certain types of champs not being played, currently a lot of types of champs are played and that's a good thing. I think maybe non-poke mages could use a buff, but that's about it.

Because of the interplay between adc stats, each time you delay the build the impact is much greater than it appears on the surface because their core stats of Damage, Crit, and Attack Speed (sometimes armor penetration too) all are not that good alone. They need each other to be good.

Also lets remember ADC's build glass cannon. You are not supposed to out damage them. You just kill them so that they don't kill your team. That's how you impact the game. Crit building ADC's always will be the gods of raw damage output. The game is built for that. If you change that, the game will quite literally have to be changed in every possible facet to rebalance around that.

The JigSAW1 votes

My patch to do list:

  1. Tryn ult - 2/2.5/3 seconds. No more 5 second crap. AD gain when low health capped.
  2. Yasuo - Q relisted as ability without 100% single target lifesteal effect. W 2/2.5/3/3.5/4 second duration. E 3 seconds fixed cdr unless it kills a unit. Shield regen unavailable in combat except when ult is used
  3. Master Yi - True damage removed from E, passive AD removed, attack speed slow -or- movement speed slow allowed during ult. W mana cost raised.
  4. Xin Zhao - Remove healing off passive. Reduce W attack speed amount at all ranks
  5. Garen - Remove true damage, Q/E based off max health and not AD, W buffed to 50 MR/armor - kills on Villain grant tenacity/mr/armor/max health stacks (up to 10 of each)
  6. Turrets - tertiary turret 4,500 health and 50% reduced damage from all sources. Secondary 5,000 with 60% reduced damage. Base turret 5,000 with 70% reduced damage, same for Nexus turrets. Damage to champions only when no minions are present add 10/20/40/80% max health true damage.
  7. Thornmail back to 30% damage reflect and 100 armor
  8. Mana regeneration added with a seventh rune slot in runes reforged, along with options for lifesteal/spellvamp to start the game like with the old 4.5% lifesteal quints.
  9. Surrender requires 4/5 votes 20 minutes in but 3/5 25 and every vote thereafter.
  10. Erect a statue of Teemo on each fountain shop to inspire us all.
  11. Reverse planned changes to gold income items for support.
  12. Remove leash requirement for junglers, make them able to kill the monsters without needing 15 people to help them and lose cs and xp OR grant a leash xp/gold bonus after they hit level 2 for assisting so you aren't behind.
  13. Buff catalyst mana/health restoration for casters OR bring back Will of the Ancients.
  14. Allow 5 stealth wards and 2 control wards per player with a new slot just for control wards
  15. Grant bot turret fortification again equal to every other turret for the first five minutes
  16. Remember Black Market Brawlers? Make an item allowing you to create one of those four special minions similar to banner of command (ironbacks would be useful with the damage output these days)
  17. S granted on pentakill guaranteed in normal or ranked.
  18. Make chromas and emotes purchasable with blue essence permanently.
Whisper871 votes

I REALLY like your idea of killing leashing for junglers. Riot is always trying to find ways to increase fighting and action early in the game to appease the agro monkeys. I think by letting laners get into lane earlier and start fighting over the creep wave a bit sooner, it's a way to encourage some early action without accelerating the pace of the game in a blanket fashion. I'd say maybe just nerf the damage output of Red/Blue buff. That way junglers are still healthy enough to gank after their first clear. You'd also buy an extra like 15-30 seconds where laners could fight without fearing jungle gank. Again, more fighting! Because it's such a slight delay junglers wouldn't feel super gimped.

Reverting fortification buff to the bottom tower is tough because viewers and Riot both agree that they don't want lane swaps to become a regular thing. Maybe if you just tone it down a little you might only see lane swaps in situations where like you swap to make sure a jax never get's to scale. Even that is tough though because that just ruins viability of all carry top laners except rumble cuz he so low econ.

Thornmail issue is tied to this. It's the big answer for tank top laners right now against attack damage carry split pushers. Bramble vest is really the only way for a tank to possibly delay the spit push threat. If you take the HP off of it, it then becomes an inefficient early buy unless the enemy team is full AD. The old Thornmail was a no brainer buy, but wasn't super useful until you had stacked some HP up, and it provided the majority of the armor you needed in 1 item. Also, having HP on it and making it strong with armor stacking makes things like going Frozen Heart AND Thornmail on a tank like Maokai can actually work cuz you get some HP now. --Thornmail is positioned to counter split push carries by having some early game value, in order to make it a value late game option but not a 100% buy like Warmogs used to be, you make it dependant on armor stacking. It's pretty healthy right now.

The spell vamp and mana regen issue is also a tough one. They wanted to make it so there isn't just a blanket "best build" for mid laners. In the past the only variation you'd see is like sometimes mid laners would run more AP in place of utility or defensive option on stuff like Leblanc for maximum effect. They want you to have to choose resolve secondary and give up some offensive options to get your sustain in lane. The idea is that play patterns and styles should change in obvious ways based on whether you are trying to hard snowball early or just get through lane and farm. Mana is tied to this because before pretty much all mid laners could kind of afford to spam skills on lane and trade. Right now there is only like 1 reliable mana regen rune in sorcery so you have to spec for it. So again, you are having to decide before the game starts how you want to play. If you're going to go for kills, maybe you go full damage and defensive runes. If you are just farming you might take defensive options and the mana rune. If you are trying to hard push them in you might go damage and mana. Sorry this text block got lengthy but the idea is that Riot WANTED to kill well-rounded rune/mastery set ups in favor of specialized ones.

Just blanket making towers harder to kill across the board is rough because that's not making it harder to snowball, that's making it harder to win in general. This becomes a blanket nerf to all early-mid game champs. We want to stay away from changes that make entire classes have very limited playability. So you have to put windows in there for skill to snowball a game. The problem right now is towers are so flimsy and tower firstblood along with the first big fight win becomes too impactful, snowballing off of straight economic/rune advantage is too faceroll. Why are there so many things in runes that provide stacks off kills for God's sake? You'll notice my change only calls for a slight durability buff to bot tier 1 tower, and a conditional buff to tier 2 towers. Playing well and putting together strong plays needs to be rewarded. The idea here is that if the enemy is knocking on your inhibitor tower that means either 1) It's pretty late in the game and so you should have at least some tools to fight back, OR 2) you've been getting owned and so if they have managed to play through all of the comeback conditions I listed above, they kind of deserve to rip through inhib tower like paper.

Your idea for wards is also tough. Here's the deal. Vision enables like every kind of play in the game. It enables pick offs when you are behind, it enables you to choke out the map when you are ahead, etc etc. So it can kind of create a snowball or a standoff too easily. Like a mindless, non skill based snowball, or a mindless, non skill based turtle. The general public is good enough at the game now and we have trinkets so it's been established that warding and vision is good. --Riot does not want it to just be the 1 decision of do we ward or not? In order to be an engaging, skill based aspect of the game, you limit vision and force teams to move it around the map. That way your team should be constantly making decisions about vision throughout the game. --I will say though that I think having an extra slot for control wards only would be good.

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