Boards›Gameplay

Other Masteries Are Niche, Thunderlord Works For Everyone.

King Odin··39 votes·6,130 views

http://grabilla.com/06110-79196748-cd78-4a8a-b9cd-d67dad39de0d.png http://grabilla.com/06110-b7b163a9-9233-4b0a-bec7-b2f7887df52d.png

Fervor, DFT, Warlords and Storm Raiders are only actually good on a select few champions whose kits synergize with them. Fervor for champions who rely on autos like MasterYi Shyvana XinZhao Warwick Auto reliant ADC's (Caitlyn Vayne Jinx ) DFT for D.O.T based champions like Brand Swain Cassiopeia Fizz Teemo (Still prefer thunders for the precision mastery) Warlords for Yasuo Tryndamere and Auto reliant ADC's (even though early game it isn't useful at all since it takes awhile to achieve enough crit)

Storm Raiders on champions like Ryze Gangplank

But you get the point, as you can see and hopefully agree with, is that unlike Thunderlords the other masteries are only good on a few niche champions. Even then those champions can still perform better with Thunderlords than the mastery which is optimal for them in theory. Brand, Yi and Xin can all take Thunderlords and still do very well even though one of the other masteries should in theory benefit their kits more effectively.

Thunderlords is universal and nearly never a poor choice, even when other masteries can and do do it's job better. So maybe, it should only be proc'd on spell casts instead of damage done. This way Swain and Malzahar Malzahar wouldn't be able to proc it with just a single E, then in turn making players consider DFT to be the ultimate best option for D.O.T champions.

I am not worried about tanks taking Thunders because in reality they're actually doing themselves a disservice by not investing in %Damage reduction/300 Free health/Stealing 3% of your total health from the enemy.

62 Comments

Tentacle Advisor4 votes

If you're basically asking that Riot nerf Thunderlord's Decree, then I can agree with you. However, I doubt they will, given that it almost seems like it's becoming a necessity. (Kind of like what happened with the "Flash" summoner spell; It just became a necessity.)

Sure, the other masteries would synergize with certain champions' kits better than TD, however, most players don't care about and/or aren't focused on late-game [given that there damn-near is no such thing anymore.] Games, lately, have only been lasting about 20-25 minutes. (I'll say 30, at most.) Be it by destroying the nexus, or a surrender vote. Games just don't seem to last very long for the other masteries to be as effective as TD.

It is actually for that reason that Riot SHOULD nerf TD, as it makes certain champions way too over-powered early-on. Champs that were made to be lane bullies are even more so and Champs that were meant to play passive-aggro are now playing beyond-aggro. It's honestly ridiculous, if you ask me.

If Riot doesn't choose to nerf Thunderlord's Decree, the least they could do is buff the Ferocity tree masteries (keystones) and give them some early game power that could stand up to TD. That way, you won't have to see every champ with it.

So maybe it should only be proc'd on spell casts instead of damage done.

^ This. This, I can settle for. It'll, at the very least, give some sort of "counter-play" to TD, as champs will actually have to burn cooldowns, as well as some mana, in order to utilize TD. Rather than having someone like Vayne auto you 3 times only to get the TD proc, AS WELL AS, her silver bullets.

Rather than having someone like Vayne auto you 3 times only to get the TD proc, AS WELL AS, her silver bullets.

And this is one of the most ridiculous ones I've had to experience, besides Devourerer+Guinsoo Xin. Ugghh!!!

mike in the box15 votes

"So maybe it should only be proc'd on spell casts instead of damage done. "

please do this RIOT. I like the new masterys but procing thunder lord of one ability goes agents the intent of the mastery. Just clean up you spell code and make it work.

Llanite2 votes

And make it useless to 80% of the roster.

Not everyone has 3 offensive spells.

1011001110003 votes

Every auto-attack or spellcast on-hit, therefore two autos and one spellcast on-hit would also proc Decree,

I'm fairly certain every champion can auto-attack.

yay nibbers1 votes

This is how it works right now though...

OneSmoothDude1 votes

Yea I don't think he meant on-hit spellcast. Just spellcast.

ChaoticPinecone3 votes

You realize then thunderlords would be completely useless on most midlaners pre 6 and only proc when the ult is used, right? (like Lux, Orianna, Annie, Ekko, Morg, Veigar, Viktor etc?) And it would incentivize the ones who can (which funnily includes Malz, Swain, and Brand - 3 champions the OP said would use Deathfire if it was stronger) to take thunderlords for more lane domination?

and some champions cant use it all - including Twisted Fate and Kayle,

Silestrio1 votes

Viktor can proc it easily at level 1 what are you talking about

ChaoticPinecone1 votes

OP in the original post:

[{quoted}](name=King Odarth,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=sUzp82oH,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-01-16T15:32:16.133+0000)

So maybe, it should only be proc'd on spell casts instead of damage done.

If it proced on spell cast, then Viktor's Q would only proc it once, even if you hit both parts of the spell. His E would be 1 more proc, even if you get both parts of the damage off. Since the OP is suggesting it only proc off of spell casts (not autos) and since Thunderlords doesnt proc off of non-damaging abilities, Viktor would need his Ult to use the mastery.

UB3R 1337 H4X1 votes

Lux can do it easily with a proper lv 2 combo, Ori can if she AA's and Ekko already needs to proc 3-hits for his damage output anyways.

ChaoticPinecone2 votes

OP in the original post:

[{quoted}](name=King Odarth,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=sUzp82oH,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-01-16T15:32:16.133+0000)

So maybe, it should only be proc'd on spell casts instead of damage done.

and the post i was replying to:

[{quoted}](name=mike in the box,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=sUzp82oH,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2016-01-16T17:29:59.206+0000)

"So maybe it should only be proc'd on spell casts instead of damage done. "

please do this RIOT. I like the new masterys but procing thunder lord of one ability goes agents the intent of the mastery. Just clean up you spell code and make it work.

Meaning that autoattacks and passive spell damage wouldnt proc thunderlords. So Lux would be required to hit a Q-E-R combo to proc thunderlords.

At the moment, Lux can proc it at level 1. Just E and Auto. Unlocking a Mastery at level 1 and unlocking it at level 6 is a huge difference and I'm not sure I would ever take it, even on burst casters if this change was implemented.

Shiyo Kozuki1 votes

Something that is useless or never used is always better for a game than something that is used by everyone because it's completely overpowered.

ChaoticPinecone1 votes

Actually, no. It isnt.

Thunderlords really isnt overpowered. The damage is decent but nothing amazing. What happened is that Riot nerfed all the other decent masteries, so everyone stopped taking them. By pure attrition people take Thunderlords. Not because its OP, but because everything else provides no meaningful benefit.

Is having 8 other useless masteries better for the game? Thats just a ton of man-hours spent into creating, introducing, and tweaking those masteries that goes to waste.

alfavhunter4 votes

How to fix thunderlords

  1. target that gets hit by thunderlords gets the shocked debuff making them immune to thunderlords damage for 5 seconds (no more 5X Thunder burst)

  2. Thunderlords only applies one stack per damage taken from damage over time effects up to 3 stacks per damage over time effect

  3. The thunderlords stack is now 5 depending on AA or spell hit, spell hit and MELEE AA now counts as 2 hits on the target and ranged champions AA count as one (reduces the strength of it for ADC keeps it the same for melee and Mage effects because melee would do 3 AAs/spell mages would spell spell AA)

I didn't explain 3. Well so I'll state it again

Mages won't notice this because they used spells and one AA to proc this anyway, melee won't notice because they get the same effect stack building from AAs, this change specifically targets ranged AA reliant champions, things like MF rain will not proc it quickly due to it being a dot and only applies one stack up to 3 stacks total

Llanite3 votes

The thing does 10*level + 0.3 bonus AD + 0.1 bonus AP, from lvl 1-8 it does less dmg than one single AA, if you get hit 3 times x5, you might already be dead.

It has a funny particle but that's about it. The dmg is low and people pick it due to lack of better alternative.

Actually xPeke1 votes

Which is why they buffed a lot of the other masteries and nerfed TLD to require actual burst (time to proc it is now 3seconds instead of 5s) I'm not even joking, stormraiders surge is actually pretty good with the buffs it got and DFT is still good on DOT champions like Malzahar, Brand, Swain.

SnowFall3 votes

Thunderlords should have range limit - no global GP ult or teemo shrooms procs

9kPluzZ1 votes

I'm like 100% sure Teemo shrooms don't proc it. Good job not knowing what your talking about.

Bodkins Odds2 votes

They actually do. Try it.

Poske1 votes

{quoted}

They actually do. Try it.

Still damage wise Deathfire touch is way better for teemo

And its not true that every champion fits thunderlord

Thresh and zilean for example are horrible with thunderlord

Auz the Ripper1 votes

I love zilean with thunderlords Double bomb>AA>run away laughing

Llanite1 votes

The only thing that procs DFT for Teemo is Q, so no DFT for E and R.

Poske1 votes

{quoted}

The only thing that procs DFT for Teemo is Q, so no DFT for E and R.

What? That wouldnt make sense...

Where is the consistency...

Auz the Ripper1 votes

His R procs DFT as a DoT Meaning that DFT lasts only 1 second past the last instance of damage. However his R deals damage over 4 seconds so Shrooms still get .25 ratio and 6 damage out of the deal

Saianna1 votes

Do we have to hit Teemo...?

He already received fair amount of pain by Riot :/

Leadpaintchips1 votes

Never enough pain for teemo.

Kikirino2 votes

Malz E does not proc Thunderlords.

KING OF MASKS2 votes

Small correction, as far as I know DFT still has relatively poor synergy with Teemo, on account of it only affecting his Q and R; Toxic Shot doesn't proc it at all, in any form (as far as I can remember at least).

Auz the Ripper2 votes

It adds .25 to his ult's ratio and blinding dart is single target, so it procs the full duration, adding another .25 to his Q>AA combo

It still is pretty good, although I prefer stormraider's because it makes him even harder to catch than he already is

KING OF MASKS1 votes

That's true, DFT isn't necessarily bad... but it also depends on your items. I like Teemo builds that focus on sustained damage via autos, rather than traditional straight AP/magic pen.

I'll have to give Stormraiders a shot though, sounds interesting.

Troiann1 votes

Thunderlords just shouldn't proc on damage over times.

That's about it.

It's not fair when a malz Es me at level 5 and does half my health because i walked into a millimeter into his range.

Bladeglory3 votes

It actually doesn't. Targeted DoTs don't proc Thunderlord's on their own, but AoE DoTs do. (Which I understand why it happens but not why it should happen.)

Source: 70k mastery with Malzahar.

Oh yeah... as for E doing so much damage... isn't it wonderful? <3

Auz the Ripper1 votes

Killing someone from half health with E>ignite: priceless

Bladeglory1 votes

You mean E>Ignite>/laugh>/masterybadge. (Yes, I have a cruel streak)

Auz the Ripper1 votes

Well, I just have the last two hot key'd

Troiann1 votes

Yeah fuck malz.

And I could've sworn I saw single target DOTs proc thunderlords. Guess I was mistaken.

Tails Doll1 votes

Lux can proc it just by E+AA. Kinda defeat the purpuse of 3 hit passive...

YumaS2Astral3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tails Doll,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=sUzp82oH,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2016-01-16T22:21:22.281+0000)

Lux can proc it just by E+AA. Kinda defeat the purpuse of 3 hit passive...

It's because the auto-attack counts both the auto-attack itself and the activation of Lux's passive for the activation of Thunderlord's Decree.

Same thing happens with Khazix: You can Q and then auto. If he has Unseen Threat ready to activate, he can proc Thunderlords just with that combo, since both the auto-attack itself and Unseen Threat count as separate effects for Thunderlords.

This is very abusable especially if you are one of the few people that like to use lane Kha (like me).

The Yetii Rider1 votes

So much salt.

Thunderlords is the early game mastery, it is designed to give harass supports more bite and assassins more threat so it's easier for them to get fed.

Changing it to three spell procs means harass supports will never get it because they don't have three offensive spells (Zyra's W deals no damage on its own, Sona only has her Q, Janna's E deals no damage on its own, Nami E deals no damage on its own, Lulu W deals no damage on its own).

Warlords has a rework that makes it less reliant on crit so it is useful in lane.

Honestly the problem isn't really the keystones, it's the Ferocity tree in general. Vampirism and Natural Talent are both underwhelming, and % armor/MR pen isn't as good as flat armor/MR pen.

Satanstein3 votes

Changing it to three spell procs means harass supports will never get it because they don't have three offensive spells (Zyra's W deals no damage on its own, Sona only has her Q, Janna's E deals no damage on its own, Nami E deals no damage on its own, Lulu W deals no damage on its own).

GOOD

Tentacle Advisor1 votes

Changing it to three spell procs means harass supports will never get it because they don't have three offensive spells (Zyra's W deals no damage on its own, Sona only has her Q, Janna's E deals no damage on its own, Nami E deals no damage on its own, Lulu W deals no damage on its own).

Last I checked, these supports were doing well, even without Thunderlord's Decree. However, back before TD was given to us, these Supports actually had to judge when it was a good time to use their spells, rather than what they do now. Like, it literally went from:

"Should I use this spell now? If I do use it I can be putting myself in range of the enemy adc/support? Would I need this spell for later? How much mana do I have right now?"

to

"Oh, my spell's off cooldown? No. No. No. That just cannot be. uses spell"

It's almost like the supports have become the bot-lane carries (not saying that some already weren't), just simply without the cs to go with it. It's even more toxic when you take support champs like Brand, Annie, Karma, Sona (go figure), champs that had plenty of, if not more than enough, poke damage and/or kill/pick potential already and gave them Thunderlord's Decree. At that point, they go from a nuisance to a "why am I even trying to farm at all?" issue.

The Yetii Rider1 votes

{quoted}

Last I checked, these supports were doing well, even without Thunderlord's Decree. However, back before TD was given to us, these Supports actually had to judge when it was a good time to use their spells, rather than what they do now. Like, it literally went from:

"Should I use this spell now? If I do use it I can be putting myself in range of the enemy adc/support? Would I need this spell for later? How much mana do I have right now?"

to

"Oh, my spell's off cooldown? No. No. No. That just cannot be. uses spell"

It's almost like the supports have become the bot-lane carries (not saying that some already weren't), just simply without the cs to go with it. It's even more toxic when you take support champs like Brand, Annie, Karma, Sona (go figure), champs that had plenty of, if not more than enough, poke damage and/or kill/pick potential already and gave them Thunderlord's Decree. At that point, they go from a nuisance to a "why am I even trying to farm at all?" issue.

The thing is, unless these AP supports are winning lane there is 0 reason to pick them. For all of Season 3, Season 4, and most of Season 5, Thresh Leona Braum Alistar and Blitz defined the bot lane meta. The only supports that were picked into tank supports were supports who could stop them (Janna) or mages who had enough base damage to, you guessed it, win lane (Morgana, Annie).

Thunderlords has made it so tank supports have to struggle to succeed in the mid and late game like they were doing to EVERYONE ELSE for three years.

This is good for the game.

KirbyCake1 votes

DFT will never have an advantage on DoT based champions just because DoT only lasts 1 second with DFT but normal spells last 4.

Swain's e lasts 4 seconds and q lasts 3 seconds so it is a disadvantage to use dft than other champions.

sp4411 votes

I think it is a good thing that they're nerfing the amount of time that you have to trigger it, then. It means that you have to either play as a champion who can quickly get 3 attacks in 3 seconds, or expose yourself more.

Count Zubat1 votes

I can agree with OP, Thunderlord is taken so much because of how universal it is. Just look at other masteries: you won't proc DFT with your autos, you won't make use of Fervor of Battle with spellcasters, you need crit to make use of Warlord etc... But Thunderlord? Everybody can use it. Imo, Thunderlord should be a mastery for combo based champions. It shouldn't be triggered by autos, only with abilities and eventually something like Tiamat, and it should get only one stack from single DoT ability. At least that's how Thunderlord should work in my view.

OneSmoothDude1 votes

Yep. There is a specific reason why to take all of the other masteries. But not TLD, it works wherever because everybody can proc it, and it's useful early game (and there's no guarantee you'll reach lategame in any given game).

Rely on crits? Warlord's. Want to damage people lategame by mixing a lot of spells with autos, or build AS, or are melee? Fervor. Do a lot of DoT? DFT. Want a burst of movement speed after chunking somebody? Stormraider's. Heal or shield people regularly? Windspeaker's. Tanky and auto in combat? Grasp. Jungling and don't want Grasp? Strength of Ages. Tanky support? Bond of Stone.

Any other scenario? TLD.

I'll give Riot credit: Each keystone has its place now. But it will take awhile to undo the damage they (read: Gypsy) did by making TLD so powerful on the longest patch of the year.

Hotlin3 Fling1 votes

Is it wrong that i only run thunderlords on 2 champs that i play? Zilean andUrgot

Xenos111111 votes

Well, I just tried MasterYi with Fervor for the first time, and oh baby did it work magic.

http://imgur.com/914ERxi

HayRoss1 votes

Stormraider's Gangplank? He's the crit master, you take Warlord's

Shiyo Kozuki1 votes

Thunderlords needs removed from the game entirely. It cannot be balanced around. It creates far too many problems and makes certain champions that shouldn't be too strong now too strong.

It's a horrible designed inconsistent keystone(as in sometimes it procs off certain things yet doesn't proc off other things that are similar) that makes the game unfun for everyone involved. It also makes the game too bursty and makes laning and lane trading beyond retarded.

Delete it.

More from Gameplay

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay764 comments
7,167
votes
3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay156 comments
3,510
votes
UPVOTE FOR URF
Gameplay606 comments
2,440
votes
Yes plz.
Gameplay456 comments
1,721
votes
3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay114 comments
1,716
votes
When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?
Gameplay634 comments
1,383
votes

More by King Odin

Checkmate
Memes & Games90 comments
380
votes
Drive By Shooting by guess who
Memes & Games80 comments
322
votes
Everyone But Diana...
Memes & Games132 comments
246
votes
Kindred Isn't A Good Influence On Amumu
Memes & Games39 comments
204
votes
Texting Phreak
Memes & Games46 comments
196
votes
Give MF rework back her Grevious wounds.
Gameplay201 comments
185
votes