Let's talk Annie

desertoflame··2 votes·819 views

Recently people have been saying Annie's Q should be a skill shot and that Tibber's should have a cast time similar to the cinematic. I want to discuss these ideas with you guys and keep in mind I am talking about Mid Annie

My Thoughts on Q Q is her best ability for lane phase. Easy farming tool and a good harass tool.

What if it were a Skill Shot? Well assume it becomes similar to Ryze's new Q. The ability looses a good amount of cs ability simply because creeps could block the skill shot. Annie can trade a few ways in lane. The most common one would be charging up stun and Q'ing so that her w can guarantee a hit. Her AA is the highest among the common mages but her abilities do not have as much range as many other mages. Pre-6 Annie would lose a lot of out trade potential because she will no longer be able to use her Q on the enemy as easy for 2 reasons. The first being that it is a skill shot ( Can miss/ be dodged ) and 2nd is that the Creeps would give the enemy a shield as good players would position behind minions whilst trading to prevent from being Q'd in the mouth. Annie is undeniable immobile as she is now. Imagine trying to trade against champions that already beat her without a PaC Q. Such as Ahri, FIzz, Zed, LeBlanc, Katarina etc... Annie needs her Q to be PaC to deal with the modern mobility champs. Ahri and Zed would out range you in poke with Q, LB and Kat will have the adv of the PaC, Fizz now has the ability to dodge the stun and ability by timing his Dash. Many other champions are not on this list but would come down to essentially that Annie will be much easier to out-trade

Post-6 This is where Annie's Q being a skill shot really hurts her. I think it is safe to assume that Annie is an Anti-Assassin mage. At 6 everyone's ultimate's become a factor. Annie loses a lot of Anti-Assassin potential without a PaC ability that can stun. Zed for example is a strong who is honestly about even in terms of damage output with Annie, the lane will usually come down to which played better. However, Zed would gain a huge advantage when Ulting Annie because there is no longer a guaranteed stun. If Annie is ulted she can either R or E (which can be dodged if zed is willing to sacrifice his w to go left or right the moment he appears behind her) or safely cast Q for a stun too decide her next action, all in or escape. So that would be unfavorable for Annie and Zed would be a stronger pick against her. Ahri would also gain some advantage as she could now dodge part of Annie's damage. In a fight Ahri's ult could easily be used to dodge Annie skill shot. Annie uses Q against Ahri (currently) when Ahri decides to all-in because it gives her a guarantee of dealing her damage on her if she is stunned. The same goes for the other champions as they can all dodge a part of damage and possibly all of it.

Is it all bad with Skill Shots? No, there are some benifits The most important one, in my opinion, would be the ability to cast it where ever. Being PaC it requires vision to be cast which can be problematic in areas with no vision. Annie champion that has PaC can be out played by simply taking advantage of areas you personally know are unwarded which would allow you to cast more abilities before he/she can cast it. With it turning into a skill shot this problem is suddenly gone. Q can be cast into an area with no vision. If you are trading and your opponent goes into (let us say the bush of death near dragon) a bush then you can now cast Q into it to try and continue dealing damage.

Tibbers! The way people want Tibbers seems to be similar to the cinematic. Annie throws Tibbers to the targeted area and after some delay he is summoned. This seems to turn Tibbers into a projectile. Which would drastically change Tibber's strength.

What does Tibbers lose? First of all Yasuo ( and to some extent Braum ) become stronger against her. If Tibbers became what people want, Yasuo would suddenly become a legit pick against her. As he could simply block 2 out of 3 damage abilities. so that change is simple. Next would be that Tibbers loses a lot of his AoE engage. Flash Tibbers would lose so much utility as champions can respond much quicker. Annie's engage is currently strong with flash. Flashing for Tibbers would lose almost all of its point because of the delay. He would also lose a lot of his engage potential in lane as he would be way more avoidable since Mids with mobility are pretty meta.

Does he gain Annie thing? The only thing it would gain is more counterplay to Annie

Would these changes be OK ( in my opinion )? If one of these happened then I think Annie would still be viable but a little less. with the Tibbers delay the instant Tibbers Aoe stun engage would be changed to either flash W or simply allow another champion engage before you. Q being a skill shot would just have to be something to get adjusted too but Annie's would have to play a farm lane and try to completely try to not trade since she would have an unfavorable kit for it.

The problem I have? People seem to want BOTH things to happen. If both these changes were to ever happen Annie would lose so much of her anti-assassin and be left as a short range mage with way less utility. Laning phase would be the biggest hell and team fights you become less important.

TL;DR Annie Q changing to skill Shot hurts her more than it helps Tibbers delay changes its reliability But she would be ok with 1 out of 2 changes

Do i play her? Mhmmmmmm back-up main Thoughts?

8 Comments

MrBuffington2 votes

I doubt Riot is changing Annie in the near future, her kit naturally has a good amount of counterplay with how she's pretty short ranged, squishy, and how her stun needs to be charged (and there's an animation for when it's up). She might receive some number changes, but I don't see her getting any changes to how her kit works anytime soon, or if anything's getting changed, it's her E.

desertoflame1 votes

I think with Annie being seen a bit more in the LCS she will eventually have to be changed (nerfed). Instant cc seems to be diminishing so I woulndt be surprised if delays on tibbers would be added. Also do you have an idea as too what her E would change too? I have thought that E could be changed to proc her passive. Let us say you have stun up. E should swallow the charge and the first person to AA her during the E shield would be stunned. However that would honestly be a buff and make Annie OP vs Marksmen because she could wait till they AA and then use E before getting hit for free stun and catch them up for some hot Tibbers on marksmen Action

MrBuffington1 votes

Annie is sort of a niche support in pro play right now, not exactly overbearing, so she seems healthy, imo.

About her E, some Reds just commented that they might like to do something more interesting with it in the future, which is part of the reason it was changed to give Tibbers a speed boost. I don't think this will happen anytime soon though, she seems fine where she's at now.

Castanean1 votes

I think Annie is... Mostly fine. Her Q is fine already, it's a basic poke ability with decent, but not overly good range. Though... I do think Tibbers might need a change. And while reading, I thought of something...

What if Annie threw Teddy Tibbers, and as with the cinematic, Tibbers emerged right after being thrown. The idea is to kinda make Tibbers function like Kalista's support, target a spot and Tibbers dashes there, although not stopping when hitting a champion/minion, unlike Kalista's ult. Tibbers would damage enemies on the way, then at the end of the travel path Tibbers would do the whole "Explode with Fire" deal and stun surrounding enemies if the passive is up. So, enemies would get damaged if in Tibbers' travel path, but not neccesarily stunned. That way, you can compensate her loss of "Instant AoE Stun" with a little bit extra AoE damage, and if you walk up into short range, you'd still basically be stunned instantly, keeping "Flash-Tibbers" a viable way to surprise someone. It also makes sure Annie is still strong at short range, which is kind of her forte as a mage. If windwall or Braum's shield affecting Tibbers is a massive nerf, it would also be possible to just consider Tibbers as "Dashing" and not a projectile, which is also what would make the most sense, really.

So that's my idea. Opinion?

desertoflame1 votes

I like this idea. If Tibbers would ever have a delay on it, it would require some form of buff and that would be a nice way of doing it. Not too much not too little.

Dedrius1 votes

I honestly do not like playing against Annie so my thoughts may be a bit biased, but I feel that if nothing else tibbers needs a change. It would make sense for Riot to give her the same delay that they gave Veigar to keep up with their "instant stuns are unfun and toxic" mantra they started. I think making her Q a skillshot may hurt a bit much though, maybe if they added a little range to it to compensate it would be ok, something like brands straight line skillshot (I think its his Q but I haven't played much brand.

I do believe that something needs to be changed though to make her a little more fun to play against post 6.

Martyrofsand1 votes

Tbh honest the only proposed changes to Annie that I have heard, and like, would make to make it so her passive only accumulates charges when used in combat. This kills a lot of support Annie, stops the fountain charging, and requires Annie to interact in order to set up her stun, as oppose to setting it up and only fighting when its ready.

Beyond that everything else sounds like garbage suggestions from garbage players who don't like there being a mage that can stop their assassins jumping all over the place.

N3mO061 votes

Her passive must have a cd, a max time to hold it. Her tibber must have a cast time and she is ok

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