Should ADC's take exhaust while Supports take heal?

Epic Murph·Jul 20, 2016·34 votes·6,626 views

This is just a meta-break concept I randomly thought of.

**The idea is that if ADC's took exhaust they would essentially be able to use it as an engage/escape tool. **

--They could use it to chase down an enemy adc, slow them and decrease their damage output, then secure a kill. --OR they could use it to keep a roaming assassin from pouncing on them. Giving them enough time to distance themselves from danger

Supports could take heal to compensate

--If they are an aggressive support with no means of healing a teammate, this would be useful --Roaming supports (a la bard) can use it as a powerful ganking tool or heal other lanes if needed. --ADC's are normally focused on doing damage, not healing their teammates during a fight. Taking heal as a support would keep the ADC more focused on his/her role.

71 Comments

The Yetii RiderJul 21, 20168 votes

The idea has some merit, especially if the new Heal Power items apply to the Heal summoner spell. Supports usually take Windspeaker's Blessing as well, which gives Heal much more utility than it already has.

The main argument against it is that Exhaust's primary use is to prevent ganks and stop assassinations, and if the jungler or assassin is on top of you as an ADC, you need to be pressing Flash, not Exhaust. Supports, meanwhile, can use Exhaust while the jungler or assassin is rushing past them to get to the carry, as another form of peel. Because supports are less likely to be focused, Exhaust is generally better for them.

StoryDuckJul 21, 20162 votes

The heal buffing items (as well as windspeakers) will increase the summoner heal spell power.....hmm, I'm starting to think this is a good idea.

EndlessSorcererJul 21, 20166 votes

It's been considered before.

However, the ADC will rarely be within range of the enemy ADC while the support often will be.

It makes the ADC a better duelist, but it is more difficult to use during teamfights. It isn't bad to protect them from enemy assassins though.

Linna ExcelJul 20, 20164 votes

ADCs need the heal more because it is extra health for them to all in with. If the support has it, you won't know if or when it'll be up or if he'll use it when you need him to.

Darklight RavenJul 20, 201617 votes

You realize you can check by pressing tab, right?

Anyway, I say that this is purely preference.

Hyrum GraffJul 21, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Darklight Raven,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rZpcafOO,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2016-07-20T21:55:02.350+0000)

You realize you can check by pressing tab, right?

Anyway, I say that this is purely preference.

I don't think it's purely preference. My reply to OP:

[{quoted}](name=Hyrum Graff,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rZpcafOO,comment-id=0027,timestamp=2016-07-21T18:21:08.670+0000)

Exhaust is better in a 1v1, but heal is much better for escaping from multiple enemies; exhaust is better at saving multiple people from a single person (eg, exhaust ori right as she ults).

This means heal on the support is better in laning, but not for roaming, when the adc is farming side waves, if the support is dead, if they're doing their job elsewhere in the teamfight, or otherwise separated from the adc.

Using exhaust selflessly is much more dangerous than using heal selflessly, because of how close you must get to your opponent.

An adc can't affort to move forward to exhaust ori in the scenario above; the support can.

Exhaust is more mechanically intensive to target exhaust than heal; you still get heal's primary benefit (the self-effects) even if you pick the wrong target.

Adc is mechanically intensive role. If you slow down your rate of clicking -- or take the time to target exhaust properly -- you're losing out on DPS, and the lifesteal you get from it.

For the reasons above, squishy marksmen will never take exhaust. It's possible that a hyper carry / enchanter botlane (like jinx/soraka) might take barrier/heal if exhaust wouldn't work very well against the enemy team comp, but it will remain a rare occurrence unless there are major changes to those three summoner spells.

420 gramsJul 21, 20164 votes

Why not both take take exhaust and heal instead of 2 flashes?

EndlessSorcererJul 21, 201611 votes

Because the enemy jungler and/or mid-laner would camp you to oblivion.

DeliothJul 21, 20163 votes

With our abundance of combat summoners, he's dooooomed!

it be lìke thatJul 21, 201615 votes

as a zac main i fully support this. please make it happen.

Sneakyy XDJul 20, 20163 votes

It was considered due to the original grievous wound change. However, one basically always wants to heal the RAD. One almost never wants to heal the support.

And now that GW is back to how it used to be, the idea is garbage.

DreadlocksJul 20, 20162 votes

Heal also gives movement speed, which is often overlooked. It helps run from everyone whereas exhaust only helps vs 1. Also it's generally easier for the support to be in a position to exhaust a high priority target in most team fights. If the enemy has an assassin who is likely to be targeting u, and u don't trust ur support to exhaust them every time, I'd try it.. ultimately, i think exhaust on adc should be fine, especially on someone like vayne.

67chromeJul 20, 20162 votes

Should ADC's take exhaust while Supports take heal?

In really low Elo that's not a bad idea. Most fantasy games feature healing supports and archers with CC.

Once everyone gets a solid grasp on LoL's mechanics Exhaust support and Heal carry makes more sense though. LoL supports live to disengage and peel for their allies, which exhaust helps a great deal when more disengage and peel is needed.

Marksman are much better served using their skills to save themselves rather than their teammates. Healing themselves and moving out of the way is more optimal than locking down 1 opponent, especially if multiple opponents are after them.

KuboxJul 20, 20162 votes

The problem is that in theory, any time the ADC needs an exhaust, the support should be there. Assassins shouldn't be killing your carry late-game without the support being there. Other arguments include :

The Heal movespeed burst is something that you'd want instantly rather than hope the support casts it in time. Heal is a more reactive spell than exchaust, as such you want the one having that power to be the one that needs it.
Exhaust is stronger for roaming than heal will ever be. Let's take your Bard example : Show up in enemy Annie's lane, stun her, then as the stun expires exhaust her. She can't escape, loses her burst, easy kill. Heal is useless here unless you mess up. and if you're afraid of messing up, don't gank.

The problem is not that ADCs can't use Exhaust, but that supports use it better. Between roaming, reduced summoners CDs (Mastery, lucidity). On the flip side, Heal is also safer on the ADC himself than the support. The movespeed is better on them, burst of heal can help them survive burst damage.

Also, Supports often find themselves in a better position to Exhaust the enemy assassin than the ADC, as while the carry is trying to stay far, the Support isn't as careful, as the assassin obviously would rather kill the carry than the support (supports typically build a but tankier too). It's possible for the support to Exhaust the enemy before he engages on the carry, whereas the carry really needs to wait for him to jump on him, in which case, odds are, some of that combo is going to get on before Exhaust gets casted.

DengedenJul 21, 20162 votes

The main problem is that Exhaust's range is terrible. The person the ADC wants to exhaust will be uncomfortably close to them. People theorycrafted using Heal on supports with Windspeaker's too but even that didn't work out.

Athenes LuluJul 21, 20162 votes

ADCs take heal mainly because due to the lack of real self-peel; it makes a great "last resort" safety spell, which can also be used when their support is absent at any given time.

Most supports have enough self-peel that they don't need that kind of "last minute last resort" spell to save themselves.

That would be my reasoning, but double exhaust lanes have worked primarily outside lane.

It Hertz When IPJul 21, 20161 votes

Outside of an ulting Yi or Olaf, Exhaust makes for a pretty good self peel too. If the main concern is self-peel, though, forget exhaust; try the ADC with Ghost and the Support with Heal.

TequilaZombieJul 21, 20161 votes

Or play AD Kennen and double stun anyone who tries to all in you.

Troll for TrumpJul 21, 20162 votes

Exhaust is more effective in extended fights, but when you're getting bursted by allins as an adc, the extra health boost can save you more than exhaust. The support could take heal, but it's more reliable for the adc to have it, as the support is often roaming.

NiaphimJul 21, 20162 votes

How is that? If you exhaust someone during his burst you negate the entire burst.

Mandang0Jul 21, 20161 votes

If you have the timing for it, sure. If you get chunked before you can hit your summoners, heal is the stronger option.

Troll for TrumpJul 22, 20161 votes

I guess it depends; Akali for instance you can get away with exhaust Zed Talon Diana Leblanc it will probably be too late for you then.

Sp33d Zer0Jul 21, 20162 votes

You could easily do this, but you can argue that:

ADCs can Use heal for the move speed burst. The heal can help them keep themselves alive longer It can be used to chase or run regardless of range It can help them survive an assassins burst as they have more hp to work with theoretically

Support can use exhaust for Roaming to slow a target to easier land CC Stop an assassin from killing ANYONE on the team, an ADC shouldn't be focused on stopping an assassin from killing his midlaner If they are an aggressive support, they can all in and exhaust when the counter engage happens to mitigate a huge chunk of damage

Ozag the MightyJul 21, 20161 votes

Nah, all supps should take exhaust and smite for jungle buffs ( try it...just try it ) NOONE expects your supp to randomly stun you with Krug buff...

RevaliJul 21, 20165 votes

except you cant stun champs with the krug buff..

It Hertz When IPJul 21, 20163 votes

That's exactly why no one will expect it!

XoshiJul 22, 20161 votes

Bronze is strong in this 1

Ozag the MightyJul 22, 20161 votes

Wrong...unranked :D

Fashion MageJul 21, 20161 votes

Another advantage to the support taking Heal would be if they have healing amplification from Windspeaker's/Censer/Mikael's.

PokladnicaZlaJul 21, 20161 votes

Does Heal interact with the Wind Spaeker's keystone?

1 800 MID LANEJul 21, 20161 votes

I think people taking heal on ADCs instead of exhaust revolves around how much an ADC already does with their mouse. Adding in a targeted summoner makes it just that much more complicated, even if only slightly.

CerealBoxOfDoomJul 21, 20161 votes

sounds great until the two get separated

bloodybadger1Jul 21, 20161 votes

Nooooooooooooo. bad idea. ms on heal too good. supports have no way to defend themselves most times. they need the exh more even if pesky assassins one shot the adc still

redfeenixJul 21, 20161 votes

I think it boils down to which summoner is best in a 1v1. What you guys think in. A 1v1 would you guys prefer exhaust or heal ?

Keep in mind you dunno your opponent, it could be enemy ADC , jungle or their mid. Which summoner would you prefer when dealing with any of them ?

I think heal is good for the speedy boost. Say you get 3 man ganked. Exhausting one of them won't really help you. But you can use the speed from heal to potentially escape all 3.

ChatillonJul 21, 20161 votes

I think if the adc has Exhaust then they are more likely to use it aggressively more often, and the support, who typically roams more often, will often use it more defensively wherever the situation permits. Exhaust is great peel, and while an adc peeling for himself is nice, the supports job is to enable his team, and exhaust does that better than heal in most situations

Mandang0Jul 21, 20161 votes

Oh, this actually isn't the reason I'd use to motivate heal on support!

Supports with windspeakers or forbidden idol/upgrades will get more out of heal than the ADC would.

Dirty BastardJul 21, 20161 votes

I agree that it is a bad idea, see. Sometimes a carry will use his health to get the speed boost and the health to catch an escaping enemy. Unless support is psychic and knows split minute decisions that have no time for communication then its just a bad idea and will cost potential lane changing plays.

FakeGravityJul 21, 20161 votes

Heal unlike exhaust is center around your allies and give a movement speed buff making it a better escape if Chase for two or more enemies while also no requiring to be close to the enemy to target them Exhaust is strong against the enemy and must be target making the support sometimes be way closer in order to reduce the damage of an enemy while at the same time protective supports like soraka can be behind their adc and ready to use exhaust on the first enemy that ever get close while also healing their adc (even if the adc is stun)

DænariusKhølerinJul 21, 20161 votes

But the problems I see with that are:

ADCs need when they are alone sometimes and need to escape or 1v1
In a 2v1, it's hard for the ADC to another person while they are attacking someone else.

Hyrum GraffJul 21, 20161 votes

Exhaust is better in a 1v1, but heal is much better for escaping from multiple enemies; exhaust is better at saving multiple people from a single person (eg, exhaust ori right as she ults).
- This means heal on the support is better in laning, but not for roaming, when the adc is farming side waves, if the support is dead, if they're doing their job elsewhere in the teamfight, or otherwise separated from the adc.
Using exhaust selflessly is much more dangerous than using heal selflessly, because of how close you must get to your opponent.
- An adc can't affort to move forward to exhaust ori in the scenario above; the support can.
Exhaust is more mechanically intensive to target exhaust than heal; you still get heal's primary benefit (the self-effects) even if you pick the wrong target.
- Adc is mechanically intensive role. If you slow down your rate of clicking -- or take the time to target exhaust properly -- you're losing out on DPS, and the lifesteal you get from it.

For the reasons above, squishy marksmen will never take exhaust. It's possible that a hyper carry / enchanter botlane (like jinx/soraka) might take barrier/heal if exhaust wouldn't work very well against the enemy team comp, but it will remain a rare occurrence unless there are major changes to those three summoner spells.

EcchiOtakuTMJul 21, 20161 votes

No because most ADCS naturally are outside of exhaust range. And heal is on the ADC cause not always you'll be in range of the support(Normally you SHOULD be but if you get separated you won't be near them even if skilled). Exhaust only hits 1 target when usually multiple people will be on you, that speed boost to escape multiple targets is much better than exhaust 1 target.

Not to mention in certain situations which will happen often the heal can increase an ally's MS to come to your aid with peel quicker which exhaust doesn't offer.

So simply put:

ADCs Outrange it and in situations of chasing heal is FAR more reliable than exhaust on the ADC

ADCs usually have to deal with multiple units on them in worse case scenarios

ADCs use heal sometimes to speed up an ally to save them with peel (mostly tanks over supports)

ADCs might get separated from the support and in such situations like said earlier it's not just 1 unit on them.

I think that's basically it. Unless we got a support champ like MINA from dawngate heal is much better on the ADC than the Support.

FantasySniperJul 21, 20161 votes

I'll try it.

UlriahJul 21, 20161 votes

Exhaust is a better dueling SS, but Heal is more useful in team-fights and skirmishes for a couple of reasons:

as an ADC you might be the focus of several enemy champs, Exhaust can only protect you from one of them, while Heal might save you from all of them.
relying on your Support to use Heal on you during team-fights is not ideal, since the Heal could go to another ally instead of you.
Heal can be used while under heavy CC. Also, the enemy team will probably not try to waste their CC on your Support, so he/she will be able to use Exhaust for you.

But like I said, Exhaust gives better 1v1 power, so if you like to split-push as an ADC, then yes it will work for you better than Heal.

AckelopeJul 22, 20161 votes

This has been something I've considered a lot as an ADC main, especially with a Soraka or other support who would take windspeaker's blessing, but I haven't tried it for two main reasons, being that I'm very used to having and using heal, and that I don't really trust other people to heal properly. I've probably saved my teammates with heal more frequently than I save myself, and I don't know if other people would be paying as much attention to that as I like to.

Both of those are pretty shitty reasons though, I should give it a go.

Reaper SorakaJul 22, 20161 votes

I don't mind if my adc takes exhaust over heal. We'll just have two exhausts-- otherwise I just forget to use heal all the time, or am out of range, or it heals the wrong person.

Heal takes too much skill for poor little me. I want my point-and-click exhaust! :P

Meep ManJul 22, 20161 votes

As Supports get more and more ways to % increase their healing and add bonus effects to healing, this begins to make a lot more sense. I'm surprised it's not done more now.

AMYS GRAVEJul 22, 20161 votes

supports can get in range of the enemy backline to use the exhaust on a high damage target, the adc shouldn't be in general.

Sire HippingtonJul 22, 20161 votes

-Roaming supports (a la bard) can use it as a powerful ganking tool or heal other lanes if needed. -If they are an aggressive support with no means of healing a teammate, this would be useful

for both scenarios, exhaust just is better. A strong slow+def-shred is certainly the more potent ganking tool than a smal and short dpeedboost+heal, and also suports an agresive playstyle better.

--ADC's are normally focused on doing damage, not healing their teammates during a fight. Taking heal as a support would keep the ADC more focused on his/her role.

by that logic he should take ignite, not exhaust.

Picking heal on the support imo only makes sense if that support is an enchanter and thus uses masteries and items that buff his healing. On melee dupports, exhaust is generally better, as they usually get deep enough to shut the opposing adc with it in fights, and they are often enough not in range to heal their carrie.

For adc haveng exhaust and heal both has pros and cons, heal for example can help dodgeing a crucial skillshot and with heal on adc, you can heal the adc and the midlaner at the same time, which are usuall the two most importent targets to keep alive, heal on support can just affect one of them. And for earlygame duels, heal probably gives about as much advantage as exhaust.