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What makes a champion "OP"

Alpha Dog7··25 votes·3,471 views

Kayle used to be my favorite champion and i was able to play her every game without anyone saying she was too strong. Then one day she was locked in during an LCS game and because of this became banned in almost all of my future games being deemed "broken" and "OP" by the community. After being able to play Kayle in every game because nobody else wanted her for almost a full year she had suddenly become picked or banned in every champ select until eventually being nerfed to the ground. I was just wondering why a champion that nobody wanted to play for over a year because she was "bad" suddenly was considered to be the most broken champ in the game although the champion had not changed in any way. A champions strength lies not only in the power of their own abilities but also in the style of the meta. Certain champions become very strong in a certain type of meta that is well suited to them and because of this are nerfed when it is not the champions abilities at wrong but really because the meta suits them and so when the meta shifts out of their favor once more they are made very weak as champions because they have worse abilities and don't fit in as well to the new meta. This has caused the downfall of many great champions and more should be done to help them recover after they are no longer in the meta that caused them to be considered "OP" i know that many players will have had to search for a new champion to main after this has happened to their favorite champion and it is unfair that people should have to stop playing the champion they once enjoyed the most because of being deemed too strong by the community at a certain time that has long since been moved on from.

77 Comments

Ser Garland30 votes

I remember, I think, this last fall when I was on the boards saying "Hey guys, Sejuani and hecarim have been getting buffs for the last 5 months. Why isn't anyone playing them a lot?" The community then laughed at me and dismissed me as some Bronze 5.

And we all know what happened after that.

The community are idiots.

Xx420n0sc0p3sxX3 votes

Sejuani got Cinderhulk, before then she was decent, not amazing. Hecarim fits what you're saying.

DrNova1 votes

Cinderhulk didnt do all that much for her. What makes Sej good is not having more HP, or the stupid little burn damage it gives. Its her current numbers and skillset, which is highly useful. She got a little more tanky, but I dont believe that is why she became popular.

Bônes3 votes

From what I understand (I don't play Sejuani), Cinderhulk helps her clears while still being able to get a tank item (which is true for all tank junglers) and that's why she is so good now. Because she is not behind in levels.

Remlap12233 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ser Garland,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rZn6edxb,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-05-07T17:18:08.888+0000)

I remember, I think, this last fall when I was on the boards saying "Hey guys, Sejuani and hecarim have been getting buffs for the last 5 months. Why isn't anyone playing them a lot?" The community then laughed at me and dismissed me as some Bronze 5.

And we all know what happened after that.

The community are idiots.

This man/woman/otherkin/both Ahri speaks the truth.

lDontLiftIcarry1 votes

hecarim benefits from smite top lane build more the other champs because his late game potentional is stupid compared to most tops played now a days. fear is still one of the more reliable hard CCs in the game because you can push enemies around so its not like he'll ever be deemed unplayable. his Q still procs sheen so bruiser with gauntlet or tank with trinity or bruiser with either works fine for him.

Personally I hate him because he has hardly anything useful on his kit pre six so Its hard to gank for him and if he loses lane too hard he becomes worthless ult bot with homeguard teleport gimmick.

Rinky Dinky1 votes

Hecarim has been strong all season has nothing to do with cinderhulk.

Also going to mention the majority of toplane smite hecarims who rush cinderhulk get shit on because they didnt get a trinity and are just a worse tank. This can be seen in lcs, hec's who dont go trinity usually lose hard

Death by Kayn1 votes

This is why I go ignite tp instead of smite tp. Overall, with hec being so strong, smite doesn't add a lot of value until much later in the game, while ignite is strong throughout

Inphernal19 votes

Champions fluctuate between OP and UP based on the introduction of new champions/items into the game, new metas, and generally finding clever ways to exploit the strengths of certain champs, not necessarily any changes to the champion in question

Tis a nice day3 votes

People used to play Ryze mid-lane and built him full AP. Then people realized how well CDR worked on him and how well he could wreck top. Then Riot nerfed him.

Davy Crockett1 votes

Ryze's rework isn't a nerf. I don't think it is.

Pæan3 votes

I think he was referring to the Q base damage nerf so he couldnt "bully people out of lane early game" and still have a crazy late game.

DrNova1 votes

Its almost a nerf. His damage output is really lowered unless you have that perfect mix of your passive popping and a high number of minions around. Otherwise you do a good deal of damage but run out of steam before you finish the deal.

Apollocliptic3 votes

{quoted}

Ryze's rework isn't a nerf. I don't think it is.

I think Ryze was nerf'd "before" the rework, when he first started going top, it's not just the CDR but he easily builds armour and/or hp into his build, and with mana scaling he attained an almost "AP tank status" nothing compared to Cho or Galio but more reliable dps, I think he was weakened a bit, and then kind of became niche, which prompted the rework to suit his new Top lane role without removing him from Mid

Tis a nice day1 votes

I'm fine with the rework. Mostly referring to his pre-rework changes.

Boulderox7 votes

I KNOW, people only find op champs based on the lcs. Yet they have been proving how lcs doesn't mean op. Top smite shyvana is strong in lcs, but BLOWS in soloque. Just beause it's in lcs they think it's op.

personally i LOVE top Mordekaiser. Everyone laughs.... until they realized that at lvl 18 with ~365 ap my ult steals 49% of the targets MAX health over full duration (half first and the rest is DoT).... All you do is farm. "NO mobility, no mobility or cc" hes shit ..... just don't be stupid and be the largest ass there is to your opponent so they can never trade with you..... Faced top shaco (funny because i could OHKO his boxes at lvl 4 as he placed them with AA, Q reset, E), tryndamere(never underestimate your ult), olaf(that dude has some early game i tell you Hwat), and no matter if i get kills or not, it's all about farm.... And after a point you CANNOT DIE in 1v1 situations, and all it takes is one good ult to turn the game for a win.

I may not win every game, but if i lose but got 14/10 k/d with mordekaiser, and feel i had an impact, I don't care.

Or pop a fed vayne, That's a win for me.

Baron of Bread3 votes

I think people mostly forget what Morde gets for not having CC or mobility (aside from the W).

LifeCyclesTWA2 votes

Yeah, for that reason alone I made this a Mordekaiser only account. Riot better not change Mordekaiser.

Baron of Bread2 votes

I don't know, taking the MS boost away is fine with me. I am still sad that after that change there is no champion without CC or mobility in their kit.

Mikal Pikal1 votes

Vladimir ?

Baron of Bread2 votes

His pool actually does both of those things. There is a small speed boost and it slows people inside it.

Daeonic1 votes

http://www.lolking.net/charts?region=all&type=champion-winrate&range=daily&map=sr&queue=1x1&league=ranked

He's on the rise Mordekaiser

The Red Warden6 votes

When people call a champion "OP" the usually hate the play pattern of the champ more than their actual power level.

I will use Caitlyn as an example. In season 3 people complained about how annoying and "OP" she was even though other marksmen were stronger at the time and did better most games. People weren't really mad about her power level what they were mad about was how crappy she felt to face.

Darius falls into the same category. He may not be the strongest in his role but people are very hesitant about him getting buffs because they know how unbearable he can be to play against.

Occams Raiser1 votes

I still think Cait is weird cause she never seemed that deadly to me. She is a safe laner. They usually have low kill potential. If she is best poking you down before the ult. She can't mess with sustain or burst lanes. I never understood why people said anything about her besides "why won't she let me kill her?"

Apollocliptic1 votes

Depending on the build, Cait can have surprising damage, A skilled player might sacrifice some defensive runes to amp up her damage and crits, then rely on her self-peel (and even worse in late game team fights) to poke down and destroy lanes. If you have a healer they are usually squishy and Cait can drain their mana as well as their hp with superior range and good timing. I don't think she is OP, but every so often she is MUCH stronger than I expect, because people use her differently (I will S**t on cait one game, then take 300 damage in two hits the next game, leading her to snowball ahead since I either have to return to base at level 1/2 or forced to play really safe)

Occams Raiser1 votes

I think Cait uses more mana than someone like Nami and Cait is never going to build mana regen items.

TDubH3 votes

I think someone already said it, the strength of a champion is determined by A: its optimal setting B: how easy it is to hit that setting... Often in solo-queue its a bunch of idiots (like me) playing what's good or what they're good at resulting in teams which can essentially do everything or nothing, meanwhile EVERY CHAMPION in league is good for something and bad at something, so all champions are constantly in equilibrium in terms of power, however in LCS; you have a situation where team-comps are focused which means there are champions who have niches which work well against certain things; Got a team comp focused on deleting one person in a quick period of time? Kayle.... ok maybe not going to work... Oh well lets use sustained damage Zilean Well, that didn't work, lets use close range assassins Lulu CRAP! that doesn't work. Ok lets ban them out, lets use zed Urgot Urgotta be kidding me! Each champion has an IDEAL situation, a composition they work well against, however it can only be attained in high class 5v5 scrimmages... What did you think these guys pulled Gnar out their ass the first time it was played in lcs?!?!?! no its because he proved himself (despite his unrealibility) reliable against team comps; however when he was picked you could see where he was strongest and other players mimicked it causing him to be OP and then nerfed.

Adaelphon Delat3 votes

Think of it this way. Most people are going to stick with strategies they know work. Some people go out of their way to research relatively unknown champs/strategies, and have the mechanical skill to make them shine. Those people are the pro players. Then, they show off the maximum potential of an otherwise unknown champion, and other people see what item paths/playstyles support it.

Additionally, game shifts over time can vastly change the strength of an untouched champion. Even though Kayle was static before that moment, the game was moving around her. Sometimes a new item comes out that works really well with a champion, potentially in unexpected ways. Sometimes a patch buffs up a specific role a lot, and suddenly a new champ is needed that can counter that role.

It's really hard to truly determine what is "OP" as opposed to just "FotM". Partially, this is due to the fact that everyone has different ideas of balance. I imagine most of Riot's balance is around the concept of promoting a healthy meta game, not overly dominated by singular strategies/combos. Thus, balance is a relative thing, and if one choice stands out as clearly superior to all other choices in all cases, then it can be considered "OP".

Sozan53 votes

There are 4 ways a champion can be "OP":

  1. Superior numbers on base stats/abilities. Self-explanatory.
  2. Is extremely strong in current meta.
  3. Too good item synergy.
  4. Overloaded kit (or kit with little to no counterplay). Similarly to number 1, but in this case it's overabundance of effects on abilities.

However, even if champion have any of the above, it doesn't mean it gets acknowledge as OP champion immidiately. Usually someone big have to play the champion - like being played in LCS, or a popular streamer starts playing him. Mind you that it makes sense. LCS players will usually try to pick strongest champions and they are played on very high levels there (so normal players can easily see how strong they really are).

Now, to give you some examples of champions that were OP in each way:

  1. Kayle. She definitely had too high numbers - mostly her scalings on Q and E. If I recall correctly it was 100% AP for her Q and 40% AP on her E. She just went unnoticed because she was unpopular at the time (after her previous nerf, where her damage amplification on Q was removed - damn, I remember when she had it and was literally two-shoting people). Right now she might be in need of very minor buffs (for example increasing her heal based on missing health), but I wouldn't say she's bad.

  2. Renekton, back in "renekton-bar" times. The popular opinion at that time was that he's completely broken, however, without any changes to him he went out of meta (due to some other champion and item changes). Recently he got some changes that were supposed to buff him, if I recall correctly.

  3. Warwick and the devourer enchantment (or whichever it was) along with challenging smite. The combination made him completely broken, however both him and the item in question were nerfed already. Now Warwick is way weaker than ever before.

  4. Yasuo is one of the best examples here. Double passive, no resource, skill with cd that scales with AS, 0,1s cd dash, immovable wall that blocks all projectiles etc. etc. Riot had to nerf his stats pretty hard, so he became managable and is recently carefully trying to make him come back to the game. However, the moment it happens they will have to nerf him again, just because of how ridiculous his kit is.

Anyway, very rarely (sadly, it happens from time to time) a champions is nerfed to hell to such a point that you have to find a new main. Unless you main only champs that are considerably stronger than the rest of the roster, in which case you will have to find a new main everytime this happens.

Rinky Dinky1 votes

Is extremely strong in current meta.

That does not make a champion OP

Example: Viktor. Was pick or ban in the lcs for about 2 weeks, recieved no changes, and is now still seen, but not as popular. Same with Karthus. Are they bad? No. Are they OP? No. Were they OP? You are high if you thought so.

Sozan51 votes

Viktor wasn't extremely strong in the meta either. He was just strong and still is (but as you mention he lost on popularity because of reasons - possibly a minor meta shift). Renekton was stronger on somewhat larger scale, but yeah - being extremely strong in single meta is fine and shouldn't warrant any nerfs (and neither Viktor nor Renekton were nerfed, though Renekton power was affected by other champion's buffs and item changes). And again - the cycle of champions becoming OP or UP as meta shifts is completely normal and shouldn't be changed. The problems begins when a champion is always top-tier, no matter in which meta.

S H A Y C 02 votes

answer..nobody played them, so nobody knew she was any good..they try the champion and cant figure out how to build or play them well and deem them trash. LCS pro plays it...does amazing cuz LCS, shows them how to play her and then everybody plays her. After this bandwagon phenomenon enough people complain about how they have absolutely no idea how to deal with her and whine and cry for a few weeks and plaster the boards with complaints and claims of over powered and broken and unfair, and my absolute favorite " no counter play" as they attempt to make it sound intelligent. Then Rito drops the hammer and the champ is never seen again. You can thank lazy people that are wholly unwilling to adapt or even try to learn how to beat champions they dont want to deal with and you can also thank the "Champion Mains" out there that are also whiney and anybody their baby champion cant handle is immediatly overpowered and broken with "no coutnerplay"

EvilRabbitt2 votes

I'm worried for my season 4 mains q.q Ahri/katarina/jinx/Ashe/velkoz

thePandev2 votes

I think it works differently for high skill floor and cap champions.

For ex. Rumble Cassiopeia Gnar all excel in competitive play, but never seem to get nerfed, which leads me to think:

-People get hyped about champ in LCS (For ex) -Champion becomes overplayed -Either dies down quicker than the plague because people don't know how to play them OR -Becomes FotM because they have a relatively low learning curve Kayle and get nerfed to the ground

So I do believe that most nerfs do fluctuate around QQ and people not taking enough time to actually learn how to counter a champion.

Same thing happened with Blue Ezreal. Remember that? Just learning ins and outs and how to manipulate certain champions = OP

Rinky Dinky1 votes

Gnar has been nerfed a lot

Diananmen Square1 votes

A lot of players just follow what is done on the LCS.

Break the meta with AD Malz? "It's not in the meta, omg troll".

I played a NORMAL as ADC annie (625 range op) And I was called a troll by like 3 people in silver 3, because it isn't meta, but we won hard. God damn.

Occams Raiser2 votes

How often do you play her as adc and win?

Diananmen Square1 votes

I only did it once to have some fun with a friend, but still I got raged at.

Occams Raiser2 votes

So you are like the one time out of ten.

Rinky Dinky1 votes

Something like ADC annie is in fact trolling

Playing something like Galio mid is not.

There is a difference between obviously building bad items on a champion and playing them in a position where they are outclassed and were not ment to be played, and simply playing an unpopular champion.

thePandev3 votes

I am not sure you know what trolling means.

Poppy: LOL WHO WANTS FB? Proceeds to go 0-30 with clarity smite

^ That is a troll

Annie has high attack range, shield that reflects attacks and grants resistances, and an AoE stun.

If you caught someone playing Lulu mid before it became popular in competitive play would they be ''troll'' too?

Rinky Dinky2 votes

Lulu is not an AP scaling champion being played as an ADC.

Use your brain.

sparkytoast3 votes

Your argument makes tristana sad.

chipndip11 votes

Except, outside of her ult, she scales off of ad now...

Rinky Dinky1 votes

Implying apc tristana was not an intended build path in the first place on her original iteration.

Implying that has anything to do with adc annie -_-

thePandev1 votes

So I guess Leona mid isn't troll either? Thresh mid? Those aren't troll then?

Rinky Dinky1 votes

Lmao this argument is sad.

W/e.

I guess adc zillean and AP Zed isnt trolling either.

AP assassin thresh must be totally OP. Its not like his ratio's are trash and he cc's himself with Q.

AP assassin Alistar must be OP as well.

And dayum, Leona must also be an OP AP assassin. She has so many options and ways to escape after e'ing into a teamfight. It's not like she blows her load than sits in the middle of the fight or anything. Its not like her scalings are trash and you're purposely handicapping your team or anything for "lulz"

thePandev1 votes

Why are they troll? What if they work and you win? Other than AP Zed, none of these should be considered troll picks.

You are now just naming weaknesses of champions. And so what? As long as I don't see you diving enemy turret at level 1 with no items and you actually try to play, you aren't a troll. Simple.

Rinky Dinky1 votes

That's not trolling. That's feeding.

Trolling is not joining a game and afking or feeding

Trolling is doing stupid shit (AD ANNIE), and laughing at the reactions you get.

thePandev1 votes

I'd argue it's purposely feeding/being a dickhead with the intent to get a reaction.

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