I dont know if you guys care but...

Wandering Spear·Mar 14, 2015·27 votes·2,554 views

It only takes about 30 games to Max Champion Mastery. Idk I really want it to feel like an accomplishment to be a master Soraka.

43 Comments

JustMyBassCannonMar 14, 201512 votes

30 games at a minimum of 20 minutes per game means you spent 10 hours playing that champion, assuming every game ended by the surrender timer.

That's a fair amount of time.

Wandering SpearMar 14, 20154 votes

{quoted}

30 games at a minimum of 20 minutes per game means you spent 10 hours playing that champion, assuming every game ended by the surrender timer.

That's a fair amount of time.

True, But 10 straight hours vs 10 hours spread throughout a 6 month season doesn't feel like a whole lot of time to me. Especially considering that it Realistic takes a lot more than 10 hours to Master a champ regardless of what Champion Mastery tells you. I just want it to really feel like an accomplishment.

JustMyBassCannonMar 14, 20155 votes

If you've been playing a champion for 10 hours and you aren't any good as them, you're doing something horribly wrong, no matter how far apart you spread that time practicing.

If I spent an hour a day on making a chainmail vest, I'd get done faster than someone who did one hour a week, but it doesn't mean they aren't good at weaving chainmail.

If I spent an hour a day learning to drive a manual shift car, I'd learn it faster than someone taking an hour a week, but it wouldn't make them worse at driving.

I see no reason to make achieving master rank with a champion an ordeal that's near impossible for someone who can only play on weekends.

Wandering SpearMar 14, 20152 votes

I don't see why it should it be a cakewalk either. After 10 hours your probably average at a champ. No where near a master. I'm sure you understand how the champion works but your not using him at his max potential. Or even extremely well for that matter. Its not like there's some time limit where champion mastery resets. Max rank shouldn't be reached in two weekends either. You telling me you can't play 100 games in an entire season? That's like 1 game a day

JustMyBassCannonMar 15, 201511 votes

Some people don't have that kind of free time. Personally, I have several days where I start work at 7 AM, get home at 4 PM, run errands until 9 PM, and better get to sleep so for work the next day.

And I'd like to point out that, so far, all you said was that it took 30 games. You didn't mention W:L ratio, you didn't mention if this was your main or if you picked a random free-week champ that wasn't your style, and you didn't mention how well or poorly coordinated/skilled your opponents were (or if it was vs AI).

I'm willing to bet there's more to the equation than just play 30 games, "instant" S-rank.

Wandering SpearMar 15, 20152 votes

Rank just determines how fast you move up the 5 Tiers. I work 7 am to 3 then 5 to 2 most days and I have a child so believe me if you want to play you will. Mmos don't compromise because you don't have time. If you can't grind to level 60 then you don't reach level 60. And all the rewards are available across the lifetime of your entire account. It's not like your missing anything because it takes longer for you to reach Max rank. But at a certain point I can't progress anymore and it's just a little too soon for my taste. Seriously I want people to see Max rank summoners as someone who invested in that champ. I want to be able to tell that guy really knows that champion well. In a system that's so easy to max out, you lose that and It's kind of lame.

JustMyBassCannonMar 15, 20152 votes

"MMOs don't compromise because you don't have time."

I don't know what MMOs you've been playing. All the ones I've played--and by that, I mean that I played them a few years ago, quit, and then came back and tried it again--have slowly built up experience creep. Whether in the form of just directly increasing the value of quest lines for XP, or by adding something that makes it easier to gain XP, they've all made it easier to get characters leveled up. It still takes up a lot of time, but it gets faster, especially during events.

Also, League of Legends isn't an MMO. It's multiplayer and online, but it's based on matchmaking instead of a massive server loaded with several hundred players at the same time.

Quick question; is it possible to not gain Mastery, or to lose Mastery points? I know they said there's no rank decay or demotions, but that doesn't mean you can't get negative points, does it?

ElJanitorFrankMar 15, 20154 votes

Actually, they originally said 15-30 games. 30 being, if you suck super hard at a champion but keep grinding it out anyway.

I'm with the OP here, I know not everyone has time to play, but what about people who do absolutely nothing but play a certain champion and know everything about it?

If there are 50000 Riven "Masters" out there, how are we suppose to recognize Box Box who has hundreds of hours on Riven?

Making it so easy to get a champion 'mastered' takes all the meaning from the word and makes it feel more like a requirement, instead of a goal or reward.

You go into ranked and see nobody on your team has mastered their respective champion.

This tells you 2 things:

a) They have less than 15 hours on the champion. b) They have less than 30 hours on the champion and they suck at playing the champion.

Here's my main point: Mastering a champion should say more than NOT mastering a champion.

JustMyBassCannonMar 15, 20151 votes

The only way I could see someone playing poorly and still getting maxed mastery on a champion would be if there was no negative scoring on champion mastery. I know they said there isn't any demotion or rank decay, but that doesn't imply you can't get negative mastery (like negative LP).

And, also, it's a beta. On the public beta server.

DJ Di0Mar 14, 20158 votes

That's it? :/

It should be like 100 imo

Wandering SpearMar 14, 20151 votes

Agree 100%

WheatloafMar 15, 20155 votes

That's for level 5, which will be the max when the system releases, but they'll unlock more later.

HupsisMar 14, 20154 votes

Initially they are releasing 5 ranks but they are gonna release at least two ranks later which are most likely gonna require more games (hopefully closer to 100).

"Its going to average 15 to 30 games to make** Level 5 Champion Mastery**. " - someone from Riot

SpecterVonBarenMar 15, 20154 votes

So long as they give a reward later that lets you use the champion portrait as your own, I don't care.

MahautsukaiMar 14, 20153 votes

Seems to me everyone is hung up on the word Master, maybe they should just change it to Champion Focus, or Champion Interest Meter, or Champion Achievements!

Wandering SpearMar 14, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Seems to me everyone is hung up on the word Master, maybe they should just change it to Champion Focus, or Champion Interest Meter, or Champion Achievements!

I don't think it matters what the name is. Its more that it's basically a reward system for playing a champ. Same reason some people keep grinding in mmos for gear even if they've done all the highest level raids. They want the gear that conveys how much effort they've put in. Personally I want lower levels to go WOW that guy is a MASTER SORAKA. After about a week it won't even be relevant to be Tier 5. I just feel like champ mastery should be a long term goal.

MahautsukaiMar 15, 20151 votes

Doesn't Lolking do that? Isn't that the point of ranked. I guess I was happy to see a system that is different then that and lets people have a mini-connection to their favorite champions.

Good points though. I hadn't considered that angle for me it was personal thing. I only brought that up from the many posts that read "It says master so it should mean mastery." Which of course is subjective. If that is what people want, a way to show excellence, I think they should treat it like ranked then so only the top 1% can be master, top 5% rank 4, and so on.

TarynMar 15, 20153 votes

All these people wanting it to take like 10k games to get this achievement seriously need to re-analyze their lives. Like how much League do you expect someone to play? At the rate ya'll are going I'm only going to be able to play one champ in teambuilder for the rest of my life if I want an achievement.

Wandering SpearMar 15, 20152 votes

The plan is for Champion Mastery to move into other game modes I don't really think 100 games is that many. It takes what 300-400 to reach lvl 30?

KidSpectreMar 14, 20152 votes

I think that's just the beginning ranks, and more will be added later.

Wandering SpearMar 14, 20152 votes

I just hope they raise it to a reasonable level. 30 games in and your just becoming semi decent at a champ if you ask me lol.

ElJanitorFrankMar 15, 20152 votes

When asked the question whether or not they planned on adding more ranks, the response from Riot was, "ho ho ho"

PaletongueMar 15, 20151 votes

They specifically said they were indeed adding more ranks.

from the original announcement

This is just the beginning for Champion Mastery. As the system matures, we’ll unlock extra tiers and rewards as we build on the program!

ElJanitorFrankMar 16, 20151 votes

Yes I know. I was pointing out that it was a long ways off, being 9 months from now (assuming all goes to plan and they do release ranks on Christmas as they implied)

DanofDemaciaMar 14, 20152 votes

i dont get it. What happens if u master the champion

Wandering SpearMar 14, 20152 votes

{quoted}

i dont get it. What happens if u master the champion

You get a loading screen banner, and a emote in game. Maybe more stuff but I'm not really sure . I know they plan on adding more stuff though

NiceMontana29Mar 15, 20152 votes

I personally feel like the max rank should be a long term process there's plenty of people with hundreds maybe even thousands of games with a single champion . If I have swain 5 level mastery I think I should be a pretty damn good swain not I played him once in a while to counter xxx champion.

Wandering SpearMar 15, 20152 votes

Let me ask you what goals does the system accomplish for you? My interpratation was that it was designed to show how "skilled" you are with a given champ. Time played doesn't correlate to skill but my point is all it does now is show that you've played at least 30 games. That's not impressive or really an addition. It doesn't mean anything. I guess besides rewards champion mastery to me was a way to show off your devotion to a champ. "Wow that guy must really know X champion." I didn't think the point was to reach master level with every single champion. That's stupid. IT HAS NO WORTH IF ITS EASY TO OBTAIN. Right now all Champion Mastery is going to show is who hasn't played 30 games with their champ. Which is going to be really toxic in ranked.

TLDR; I Think making it difficult to achieve master rank doesn't subtract from people who don't reach master rank. Making it easy to achieve it takes away any value in achieving it.

How about you tell me what you think the system should represent?

Chaotic ReksMar 15, 20152 votes

MASTER OF LAUNCHING BANANAS

Wandering SpearMar 15, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=NyX Reks,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rPVOGqwu,comment-id=0010,timestamp=2015-03-15T14:41:42.832+0000)

MASTER OF LAUNCHING BANANAS

Bananas Fo Life

PaletongueMar 15, 20152 votes

You're expecting too much too quickly. Riot has just released beta on the PBE, and they're starting small. Getting to rank five of mastery certainly doesn't mean you've mastered the champion, and Riot knows that. It's not meant to be fully mastered so early. The difference that you're not taking into account is they haven't made full champion Mastery available to us. You've simply reached the highest point that they've allowed access to. Get excited that they are giving rewards for consistently playing a champion at all, no need to be ungrateful. You'll see, once Riot releases all the ranks they plan on, I 100% guarantee it will take more than a few days to full master a champion.

EedatMar 14, 20151 votes

Is the Champion Mastery going to be retroactive? or do all of the games I've played before not count at all?

Wandering SpearMar 14, 20151 votes

Old games do not count. On the plus side you can still feel accomplished hitting that max rank.

SohleksMar 14, 20151 votes

30 games is a lot considering I play dozens of champions.

Riot said they'll probably add more ranks later.

Wandering SpearMar 14, 20151 votes

{quoted}

30 games is a lot considering I play dozens of champions.

Riot said they'll probably add more ranks later.

Yea but do you really feel like a master of those dozens of champs? I feel like grinding for champ mastery is lame if it's so easy to achieve because it's useless. If everyone is a master No one will be. - Syndrome When it's only 30 games it doesn't represent any difference in being able to identify champion experience. Especially when it's common to run into true Champion Masters who have hundreds of games played with a given champ. All it will tell you is if someone on your team is New with a champion. Troll bait.

cuddlykitten4Mar 15, 20151 votes

According the the logic of most posts here, once you hit level 30 you should not feel accomplished because you probably aren't as good as the diamond level 30s. Also you never finished your math problem, 1 champ mastery = 10 hours (we're assuming that's the case), the second part is 10 hours x number of champions, now we're looking at what? 130 something hours roughly? Considering that I doubt most players with max out mastery and stop playing that champ it suddenly becomes a lot of hours. You're mostly only going to speed level through the champs you really like. Also, though you may not be a god with every champ you master, it can easily be assumed that you have an understanding of how someone will wnat to play that champ. There's a lot to be said for just understanding how to counterplay someone.

mjack33Mar 15, 20151 votes

I'm sorry you only have to play 30 hours of League to get to level 5 with one champ. They should have made it 1000.

Wandering SpearMar 15, 20152 votes

15 to 30 games. That's 5 to 10 hours. Quite possibly I could max a champ in one day. What's the point in that? You'll seriously probably spend more time waiting for a support in teambuilder than leveling up your champion mastery.

CaelerMar 15, 20151 votes

Assuming the average game length of SR is 30 minutes, it will take anywhere from 450 minutes to 900 minutes to master a champion. This converts to 7.5 to 15 hours on a champion to master them. Keep in mind that how fast you master the champion is based on how well you perform. The average time would be 11.25 hours. This certainly CAN be achieved in one day, but not unless you play nothing but that champion the entire day. I can't speak for others, but I feel like that would get boring after the first couple of games. I don't think there would be that many people spamming the champion the entire day, except mains.

I think the problem is more along the lines of this:

{quoted}

If there are 50000 Riven "Masters" out there, how are we suppose to recognize Box Box who has hundreds of hours on Riven?

The design of the system is flawed in that mastery can't be based off of number of games played or time spent. You could have someone play 200 games as a champion and still not actually master that champion. I, myself, probably have somewhere around 150 games as Ezreal, and I would never consider myself a master of him. If a new champion came out, a pro player could swoop in, play that champion for a couple of weeks, and completely master them in the sense that they actually ARE masters of that champion. The discrepancy between normal players and pro players is vastly different in this regard, as the normal player could do the exact same thing and reach the peak of their skill with that champion but not be anywhere near as good as the pro player.

Champion Mastery is affected largely by player skill. Are Bronze 5 players who have hundreds of games on their respective champions really masters of that champion?

In my opinion, the easy solution to this problem would just be to rename the system to something else other than Champion Mastery. Perhaps Champion Familiarity or Knowledge. I think most people would agree that if you've played hundreds of games on a champion, you probably have some knowledge about the champion and their mechanics/skills/role/whatever.

OnegarionMar 16, 20151 votes

They have a way to notice who is doing best though. Even after you reach Mastery with a champ you still collect points towards a score and obviously if you are looking at boxbox, as long as he plays on his main or at least 1 account, he should have one of the higher scores with not only the amount of games, but the scores he can put up on Riven.

Champion Mastery is affected largely by player skill. Are Bronze 5 players who have hundreds of games on their respective champions really masters of that champion?

In my opinion, the easy solution to this problem would just be to rename the system to something else other than Champion Mastery. Perhaps Champion Familiarity or Knowledge. I think most people would agree that if you've played hundreds of games on a champion, you probably have some knowledge about the champion and their mechanics/skills/role/whatever.

Its hard to make sense calling it anything else. THere is a difference between mastering the champ and mastering mechanics at the same time. Some people can learn combos, know builds, and how to play the champ, but if when push comes to shove and they can't keep up because they can't think fast enough or move fast enough thats not really them not knowing the champ. Tons of games out thre have "Mastery" systems that aren't really mastery because that would require ranks and certain things that weren't obtained through just playing the game and its hard to really measure a true master.

CaelerMar 18, 20151 votes

{quoted} Some people can learn combos, know builds, and how to play the champ, but if when push comes to shove and they can't keep up because they can't think fast enough or move fast enough thats not really them not knowing the champ.

That was sort of what I meant. The mechanics of a Bronze 5 player on Riven are going to limit the player regardless of how much time the player has spent playing Riven. Difference in skill does not necessarily mean there will be a difference in knowledge. The bronze player might know builds, combos, and what walls can be hopped over, just as boxbox would, but be unable to execute the latter two because of their mechanical skill. It doesn't make much sense calling them "Masters" when the discrepancy in skill between them and boxbox would be so great.

if you are looking at boxbox, as long as he plays on his main or at least 1 account, he should have one of the higher scores with not only the amount of games, but the scores he can put up on Riven.

I considered this, but I'm not exactly sure how Riot plans to work out the numbers. If getting an S+ ranking on the champion only gave a couple more points than a lower score, then the difference could easily be made up in number of games played. I'm not exactly sure how the points system would work.

There's also the problem of players who don't main any one champion, and who will more likely have less games played as that champion than people who do main that champion. The system would probably indicate that the player with no main would have less "Mastery" than the other, even though it's entirely possible that they are actually better than the person maining that champion.

Another possible problem is that score is also based off of how well you performed compared to other people who have played that champion. Someone like Darius, for example, could completely wreck in Bronze but be much more balanced at higher levels of play. This means that it's possible that the less skilled Darius might actually "score" better than the other Darius simply based off of how much better players respond to Darius in higher levels of play compared to lower levels of play. This contributes to the whole "Mastery" issue. A bronze Darius might appear better than a gold Darius even if the gold player is actually better with Darius than the bronze player.

OnegarionMar 18, 20151 votes

Well Riot said that its not going to be easy to get an S+ rank. Even with someone who has full mastery. You can't just get it because. Yet it will come down to how they structure the numbers to correspond to the ranks which could be what this early release.

Now your last point is actually a good one, but again its going to come down to how the numbers work. I would hope that in terms of overall score rank does have some multiplier or bonus corresponding. It would be bad if a bronze player did really well on 1 champ (not well enough to carry them-self out) and top tier players get beat because its not as effective against other high elo players. Now if they put up scores for each League then maybe it would be more interesting. SO that the highest bronze Darius may have a higher score than a Plat Darius, but we all know that the plat is better so they are lumped in there own group. So they both are top of their league, but don't get trumped. I would feel that as the bronze or lower elo person moved up they would keep their score in between leagues.

For me though it also comes down to what the score comprises of. I look to the LCS Fantasy scoring a bit here. Games ending in 25 minutes with 40 kills total would get a higher score than 50 minute game with 100 kills total or give it a multiplier based on the time it takes to complete. Also more multikills would get you a higher score. CS is a must for all non-support champs. Not just in the sense of how good, but a Diamond player is going to get a much higher CS score than a bronze. Again some of this favors bronze elo and others favor higher elo. Just some thoughts on it.