A Sol's Late Game is Ridiculuosly Weak

Power Cosmic·Jun 1, 2019·7 votes·6,788 views

Just throw out the window that you might have a perfect team fight in an even game. Every other case you just arent going to hit many stars before dying bc everyone else hits really hard, and your stars do not and are easy to dodge. So late is mostly about your Q bc the R is nothing like a Brand, Lux or Vel'Koz ult either. Sol is half a champ late. If you get into a fight with an adc (or anyone else fed) you will often have to hit them with more than 4 stars, and this not going to happen so you are free for them. Even good players cant hit a lot of stars when the game opens up and champs are moving around. A Sol can not siege like other mages either. He is not a lane bully, can't seige, or carry, but he is the most fun champ in game.

29 Comments

GlaricionJun 1, 20199 votes

Isn't that what's supposed to happen? A Sol hardpushes wave, can all-in mages if they contest. A Sol has favourable backs, and is one of the best roamer/gankers in mid. During the early mid-game he has a good amount of consistent deeps, burst, and tankiness at his disposal.

If he didn't have a weak late-game when in the game would he be weak, just laning phase when you get counter picked?

(not saying A Sol doesn't have issues, just that this seems like a weird thing to post about)

Power CosmicJun 1, 20192 votes

Being weak is one thing, but being hardly functional is another. He often can't get much from his stars late, and that is where most all his power comes from. His win rate sinks below 40% late bc of that. So the weakness isn't really scaling, it is that you are rarely going to hit someone w/ more than 2 consecutive stars late, while EVERYONE else one shots. Assassins like Kass, Talon, and Zed roam very well, lane well, and scale hard (while also all countering Sol). The vast majority of champs have no real weakness, so if you do your just bad; like Singed.

MuffledGarbageJun 1, 20193 votes

wait a sec, Sol's earlygame isn't THAT good. He can't lane bully other mages due to his low health pool. Sol only STARTS to get good at midgame after grabbing item 3027 and item 3116 .

He needs a 2 item investment to become even slightly tanky but then other mages only need one item in order to start dealing JUST as much damage as Sol, item 3285 .

Sol's burst doesn't get good until he maxes Q and R... which would be at level 16 or whatever level you get the last R skill point at.

Sol has favorable backs but has NOWHERE near the amount of damage, burst, or tankiness you are mentioning until he finishes two items.

Stars ShaperJun 1, 20191 votes

The thing is that he IS a lategame champion that thrives in teamfights because of his average but constant damage. His earlygame roam isn't nearly as good as depicted, the initial distance of his E isn't even half of the lane and the travel time isn't any shorter than any1 buying T1 boots and going down the river.

Stars ShaperJun 1, 20198 votes

That’s a direct consequence of the nerfs to his HP and HP regen.

It’s really sad how a mage that is supposed to stand for long fights on a range that is inferior to all other mages and less of a lot of ADs too had to be nerfed in the only thing keeping him alive while doing his basic job.

Power CosmicJun 1, 20192 votes

Yeah, I think most his value is in his W yet you can hardly use it with any consistency late. So you end up like a weak melee hitting a star then kiting back somewhere safe.

Moody PJun 1, 20194 votes

Aurelion has some of the best early game roams and can win the game hard in the first 10 minutes.

Its a fair trade.

Rıots Bad ClientJun 1, 20192 votes

Remove his E, It feels awful.

Make His E give him movement speed, while making his W spin faster that lasts about 3 seconds. But It puts the duration on hold As long as his Q is out on the field. So he can keep up with his Q.

Crispy0SnakeJun 1, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Remove his E, It feels awful.

Make His E give him movement speed, while making his W spin faster that lasts about 3 seconds. But It puts the duration on hold As long as his Q is out on the field. So he can keep up with his Q.

His E passive gives ms

Rıots Bad ClientJun 2, 20191 votes

{quoted}

His E passive gives ms I'm not to interested in the Movement speed.

I just feel his moving through walls, hinders him way to much. It takes away from his Budget and Enforces him to be a "Push Lane, Look to roam", so he falls off after lane phase and his lane phase is not good in that.

Specially when Anyone can roam with TP, and other champions also do what he does. (I wouldnt say Better or Worse) TwistedFate Taliyah both have the Push lane Look to roam. However The difference between Him and the others, is that his E is where all his power Budget is going. This Champion Cannot be good With this ability. The Threat of this champion being able to Roam as early At level 2(maybe if you're Spicy Enough) Is to strong, and Cannot have a Strong Mid(After Lane), and Late.

I'm saying This ability is why hes weak and will continue to be weak. He isnt supposed to be strong, just helps others get strong.

And what I suggest. was to Kill the Roam ability to make him more of a DPS Mage that helps Zones. But I think I might want to change him for what I think would be more Fun and interesting. People might like his roaming potential.

SO, You cannot increase his Damage. as against supposed to be weak Mid to Late. So I think if you changed the ability so that it has controls like Sion During the ability, But even LESS control, just small adjustments. I think that would help him enough to be a the roaming Dragon.

Apraham0Jun 1, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Remove his E, It feels awful.

Make His E give him movement speed, while making his W spin faster that lasts about 3 seconds. But It puts the duration on hold As long as his Q is out on the field. So he can keep up with his Q.

no that's awful the e is perfect it can move around walls so he is better at ganking but the w is the problem if u just get cced you cant use it and your done you don't do damage for another 4 seconds and then u ult and die

Sire HippingtonJun 1, 20192 votes

Well, any champ that has a slowish damage pattern is bad late prettymuch ever since S6. Since tankiness scales nowhere, all that maters late are CC and getting alot damage out as quickly as possible, and sols CC is unreliable and he can't get the damage out quickly. Another thing is that Sol is one of those champs that really needs a proper frontline to teamfight, and frontline is not really a thing anymore...

Samflash3Jun 1, 20192 votes

But isn't that canon in a lot of movies? The big massive dragon terrorizes everyone for the majority of the movies until the heroes get powerful to take it down?

Crispy0SnakeJun 1, 20191 votes

I mean if he gets to late game he has a lot going for him, lots of hp, roa fully stacked, really big teamfight ult etc.

I think his main problem is that in lane a lot of champs can just use their gapcloser and kill him really easily

He seems good vs immobile but really bad vs mobile champs

Power CosmicJun 1, 20191 votes

Immoblie mages are safe and Sol is no assassin so they all easily out range and out scale him. His one competitive advantage is he has far more utility mid game but that is all conditional on what is going on around him. His ult has good aoe and range but doesnt hit that hard compared to others big mage ults. Just think what one Brand, Lux or Vel'Koz ult combo can do to a team versus what A. Sol has to do to match it, he can't and while he is doing less he is also a lot easier to kill. Not to mention Lux and Brand destroy A. Sol in lane too.

Stars ShaperJun 1, 20194 votes

His HP is less than what Ryze gets and his defenses are null, his teamfight potential is all centered around the constant slow he can apply if well protected because now anything can just melt through him.

Power CosmicJun 1, 20191 votes

Accurate but delete more so then melt atm

RaQqaJun 1, 20191 votes

Sols late is weak? xD, Of course you are in a disadvantage 1v1 against mobile assassins, but you are a zoning machine. You can just press R in late game for 1k dmg which gives massive slow for everyone it touched, and it's not hard to hit it on multiple enemies, then u follow up with your Q and W, In 1 second u almost one shot squishy target there, everyone is slowed by rylai, u got zhnoya to survive crucial dmg. Sol have decent late game. I would say his weakest moment comes after roa, enemy already in this moment are enough strong to solo u and outclear the wave in a good time. U get the dmg after 2 next items. Of course there are several champions that can kill u at lvl 2, maybe even at lvl 1, but honestly sol have one of the best lvl 1 performence in the game. Use your R more times, earlier in the fight, it helps u a lot, in actual dueling, don't save it for later.

Lux and vel koz are squishy, while u have 1k hp more, U can just DO a GENKI DAMA from the half of the map, followed by some engage from your team, it's often unavoidable, your team will get a kill.

Power CosmicJun 1, 20192 votes

Lux and Vel are very safe and effective and pay nothing for it while scaling great. Safety is not conditional, so it is perpetual and consistent. Roams and ganks are entirely conditional on what other players are doing. A. Sol pays everything for his roaming plays. You can see the inconsistency. Not to mention Lux destroys Sol in lane too.

Power CosmicJun 1, 20191 votes

No other champs really pay for any power they have. Yet Sol pays everything. I am more for the game changing then Sol changing.

chipndip1Jun 1, 20191 votes

You don't get to have a ridiculously strong early game while having a good late game. Sol's ability to roam and sabotage anyone else's lane as early as level 3 is the reason why his late game fights need to be weaker than most mid laners. If that's a problem, don't play Sol.

Power CosmicJun 1, 20191 votes

First read some of the other replies. Clearly you dont play Sol bc he is a relatively poor laner, and his strength is conditional to others. But you say strong early shouldnt be strong late then what about: Jax Aatrox Ahri ? And we aren't talking being strong late, we just want him to still be Sol late.

chipndip1Jun 1, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Power Cosmic,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=r7NJk7l4,comment-id=00090000,timestamp=2019-06-01T17:28:35.731+0000)

First read some of the other replies. Clearly you dont play Sol bc he is a relatively poor laner, and his strength is conditional to others. But you say strong early shouldnt be strong late then what about: ? And we aren't talking being strong late, we just want him to still be Sol late.

Sol isn't a strong early pick because of his insane laning.

He's a strong early pick because of his insane roaming. His roams can break a game open well before any other mid laner can, and that's an early game trait.

As for the others:

Ahri isn't strong late.

Jax isn't (that) good early.

Aatrox isn't strong late.

Power CosmicJun 1, 20191 votes

To roam you have to get priority in lane.

Akali PrimeJun 1, 20191 votes

Give him more stars or make his stars rotate faster late game

Or make his stars increase in damage as they hit the champion multiple times.

Power CosmicJun 1, 20191 votes

I was actually thinking the first time a champ is hit with a star it does good extra damage and has the cooldown on the same champ that matches the time for a full rotation. The cd would only be champ specific so you can hit multiple champs with one buffed star, but cant hit someone with buffed star again til a full rotation

Power CosmicJun 1, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Power Cosmic,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=r7NJk7l4,comment-id=000a0000,timestamp=2019-06-01T20:41:49.825+0000)

I was actually thinking the first time a champ is hit with a star it does good extra damage and has the cooldown on the same champ that matches the time for a full rotation. The cd would only be champ specific so you can hit multiple champs with one buffed star, but cant hit someone hit by buffed star again til a full rotation

Once w is maxed

GlaricionJun 1, 20191 votes

Feel free to check out his WR% curve. Extremely high 0-20 minutes, then falls off a cliff. He thrives when he can potentially hit 2 or 3 targets at once w/ minimal risk of being CC'd and rolled on. He thrives off of hard pushing middle and getting ready to assist the jungler in stacking up a gank. That A Sol needs to move in one direction to start his comet of legend (which gives him bonus MS) is irrelevant.

If you watch high-skilled A Sol games, the level 1-3 play is still usually to toggle W to hit all the minions and to all-in the enemy if they try to stop you.

The HP nerf increased A Sol's skill floor by a fair bit and made his assassin/bruiser couner pick match-ups worse. A Sol still loves to go against mages.

Tr4shB4NSYST3MJun 1, 20191 votes

Plus, because of turret plating and the CS bounty system injecting more gold into the game we reach lategame earlier than before, so the Window where A-sol can have his strongest impact is smaller than before as well.