About the ap item changes and some community backlash

Leu07·Jun 23, 2015·20 votes·2,922 views

I believe we must wait to see how the changes affect the game globally first instead of pointing at specific champs and demand for nerfs ASAP. Many champions will be benefited from these changes, so it would be unfair to start nerfing, for instance ... if everyone is actually getting indirectly buffed. After the changes are done, we can start judging and then fix what's broken.

Btw, which champion are you the most excited to try with the new ap changes? for me it's , I believe she would reach her power spike later considering some of her core items are even more expensive now, but I could actually see myself trying that new after the changes, specially with this tank meta. Which item would you like to try and on which champion?

keep it chill.

40 Comments

Centerpoint360Jun 23, 201511 votes

Veigar . Not because he interacts with these buffs too much, but because when the ENEMY has more AP, Veigar has more AP.

And that's always a good thing.

Hard4HamstersJun 23, 20155 votes

I agree to some extent that waiting for the changes to be implemented before doing anything regarding nerfs to certain champions is important. However, I do feel like Rumble and Vlad in particular are going to be abused when the item changes occur. They are already strong champions, and the changes in place will definitely make them stronger. For Vlad, WotA is going to rely less on penetration items, and there are more items with higher AP values, meaning he will gain more Health as a result, making for a tankier and harder hitting Vlad. For Rumble, the real benefit isn't that Liandry's is getting buffed (though it does help him considerably), it's that all of his items are getting smoother build paths. Needlessly large rod is almost 400 gold less now, meaning Rumble can back with less gold to buy it. He struggles at staying in lane if he is being aggressive as he has no form of sustain to bring him back up if he doesn't win a trade, forcing him to back and buy smaller items. I feel like Kennen is in a similar situation in how he is going to benefit form the changes. Swain as you mentioned likes these changes too, but I feel like he is going to be left unchecked for a while based on his unpopularity; similar things apply to Malzahar and Heimerdinger .

As for the champion I'm most excited about, I have to say Ryze . The RoA and Seraph's combination is going to be pretty strong for him in terms of damage, but he is going to be losing some tankiness, I'm not sure what this means for him but it's what's exciting for me. I'm not sure if he is going to be better or worse for these changes, but it means I get to experiment more with the blue man. WotA is looking good on him. I was packing Luden's/Deathcap as offensive items on him, but I'm not sure what to think with the changes coming in. D-cap is more expensive but will give more AP, whereas WotA is going to boost Ryze's tankiness with increased healing in conjunction with his ultimate at the cost of 100+ AP. I could get both but that doesn't allow for a defensive item and with RoA getting its health reduced, I'm not sure what is better. Second RoA to split the difference?

LankPantsJun 23, 20154 votes

I just want to play Zyra .

She's always been one of my favourite mages and the new item 3151 and buffed up item 3116 look really good for her.

BorblandJun 23, 20151 votes

Sadly they nerfed the slow from pets from 40% to 20%. As a big Zyra player, I was excited to see Rylai being viable on her, but Rito crushed my dreams....

LankPantsJun 23, 20151 votes

Sadly they nerfed the slow from pets from 40% to 20%.

I don't think it will matter too much. Your Q is now a 40% slow, you also have a slow on your ult to help keep people in it. I think that a tanky AP Zyra build mid could be quite strong after the changes. Ie. item 3151 , item 3116 , item 3089 , item 3174 , item 3157 and item 3020

BorblandJun 23, 20151 votes

You lose tons of damage without ludens.

And sadly hp isnt too effective on Zyra because you'll get bursted anyway most of the time

AbyssphereJun 23, 20151 votes

{quoted}

You lose tons of damage without ludens.

And sadly hp isnt too effective on Zyra because you'll get bursted anyway most of the time

I agree that HP isn't the best on Zyra but Luden's really isn't necessity as a damage item, particularly now that it gives the same amount of AP as Rylai's does. Given that Rylai's makes it easier to keep your victim in place for your plant damage, I'd argue that it will add more damage to your combo than Luden's does since its nerfs.

VekknaJun 23, 20151 votes

I typically rush item 3151 every game after basics like item 1001 and item 3070 .

Your AP scalings aren't great, but the early combination of item 3151 item 3020 makes your plants an actual zone threat, very strong at the objective bosses, and adds a lot of indirect power to your ulti. A mid game item 3116 isn't so much for the slow effect as it is for the combination of hp, ap, and double Liandry's damage.

From there you have a solid universal core to build off of depending on the fight.

ChargeItDownMidJun 23, 20153 votes

[deleted]

Leu07Jun 23, 20151 votes

Oh yes, I still remember, the lantern warwick was insane, but I think this changes are really not that big and more accross the board.

WalkingInACircleJun 23, 20153 votes

I believe its a buff across the board because when I make builds they end up stronger than current builds. But even moreso, the new build-ups are so much nicer. The NLR at 1250 gold is a perfect AP starter item. Deathcap and Morellos now build up with smaller components, etc.

I'm most excited about Ahri , because she's my main. Looking at item 1058 -> item 3003 , item 3158 , -> item 3089 Adding in everything else its nearly 400 AP after two items, with excess mana and cdr. I'm also happy because I can finally ditch item 3020 , because her leveling Q first and its built in true damage makes Mpen less efficient for Ahri, and the 15 mpen does not scale. There was just no other option when item 3165 is your super efficient one stop option for all your mana and CDR needs. Morello's also had an inefficiency though, it that its passive overlaps with summoner 14 . No more inefficiency.

LilxPaprikaJun 23, 20152 votes

rylais on a few champs. curious how it works on udyr phoenix stance. or kayle E.

also void staff seems strong too.

viridianArcanistJun 23, 20152 votes

I'm going to see how item 3116 will work on Azir . 40% slow on his soldiers' attacks seems a bit too strong to pass up. The full build would probably look something like item 3020 item 3115 item 3174 item 3089 item 3157 . Might throw a item 3135 somewhere if I need it.

PartholonianJun 23, 20152 votes

I want to see what the Nashor's change will do for Kayle Diana ... in the latter case coming right after Runeglaive.

Maybe Teemo too. item 3151 is already core on him (albeit not in the first couple items with its current stats) and it would be fun to see more E/Q-oriented builds with item 3115 make a comeback.

I agree that it's probably too soon to start talking preemptive nerfing, even to someone like Rumble who is already a beast on the current pro patch (I'd say "on live", but they don't actually play on the live patch). But these changes may be in PBE for several cycles so they could look at specific champions there if they seem to be a big problem.

Curling VeigarJun 23, 20152 votes

Veigar I'm ready for 1400 ap every game

Solari FortuneJun 23, 20152 votes

Time to plant that garden Zyra I feel she might become viable as a mid with these changes. Her range of spells keep her safe (though her ult can put her in a tight spot with its range) Her damage is also quite nice and her plants can really rip people apart, especially once ulted. I do feel they need to give her a new passive as her current one isn't all that great. The damage is pretty nice and its true damage but when firing it has a small delay before firing so trying to hit a moving target can be rough.

VekknaJun 23, 20151 votes

I think Zyra jungle could fly in under the radar with runeglaive. It solves her early mana issues, speeds up her clear (which is already quick for being so safe), and gives her burst on the AA when targeting plant damage.

Rico NastyJun 23, 20152 votes

Viktor is going to be ridiculously broken with these changes.

The LovelessJun 23, 20152 votes

I'm hating that magus is being replaced in tomorrow's patch.

Celeste BenalJun 23, 20152 votes

Karthus + item 3116 + item 3151 .

Burn, baby, burn!

pE4CbxDPQOJun 23, 20151 votes

intending on playing Cassiopeia item 3020 item 3003 item 3152 item 3285 item 3135 item 3102

FerezillaJun 23, 20151 votes

I'm a little lost. Are they buffing the AP items? Can someone link a source please?

WalkingInACircleJun 23, 20152 votes

{quoted}

I'm a little lost. Are they buffing the AP items? Can someone link a source please?

http://boards.pbe.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/champions-gameplay-feedback/q2694bqE-513-core-ap-items-pass

Basically they're trying to standardize the AP given by AP items and diversify them through their abilities and secondary stats.

XeroKimoJun 23, 20151 votes

Any champion that uses item 3116 + item 3151 , and I'm hoping the liandrys burn to be really effective again, like season 3 - early season 4 effective. The DoT did so much damage on tanks, and right now it doesn't feel like that anymore

Toru ItaiJun 23, 20151 votes

omg plz someone link this info to me! D: i looked at surrender@20 but couldn't find anything.

Chespin2013Jun 23, 20151 votes

Teemo going full ap and he's shrooms would feel like a nuke after these changes hit live Vladimir one of my favorite champs he's gonna become godmode with these items and he might get nerfed with the new items it just seems like its gonna happen one way or another Swain there's a reason why he is called the pain train and now hes gonna skyrocket Diana with the new ap item buffs and the runeglaive enchant diana jungle is gonna be even stronger it already was under the radar but after these new items come in shes gonna wreck faces it be just like how it was for her release

ProfDrDeathJun 23, 20151 votes

Personally, I think I want to give Skarner a try.

He scales rather ok with AP (all four abilities: 0.2/0.8/0.4/0.5-1.0). He is one of the prime Sheen users, and will get even more mileage out of Runeglaive (mana issues? What mana issues?). And, on top, item 3116 means the Q permaslow is back. #OH BABY

WolfBVJun 23, 20151 votes

Singed since I usually build item 3003 item 3116 and item 3151 on him. Don't know how it'll affect him but it should affect him well.

I Am FlorgJun 23, 20151 votes

I just think it will be cook to have item 3151 be more slot efficient, that was a large reason I didn't build it very often. Now i can try it out on other champs that it may work well on.

T RexHasTinyArmsJun 23, 20151 votes

I think the biggest thing is that the items haven't gone through pbe yet. I'd be amazed if tear keeps its 20 ap bonus. It'll end up being like 140 ap item if it does in a world where only DC gives more than 100, and ROA (built on most AP champs that go tear) is now the the same AP as all other major AP items. Basically it'll make Anivia and stuff stupid strong in exchange for the charge time, bc instead of giving up early power for moderate bonus late game, it's a 40 AP difference between it and any item that could replace it (45ish w/ bonus % multipliers)

The LovelessJun 23, 20151 votes

When you think about it, this game has more mages and fighters than anything else. It kind of makes sense for those roles to take the spotlight, and have hints such as (true) tanks and assassins be closer to niche than have a meta revolving around them.

I guess what I'm saying is that there's a variety of mages, whereas we see the same couple of tanks every day in games (Mao, Naut, Sej, Ali, Leona even though she's been top 5 for years). Even if there's nothing but mages in games, I expect there to be a wide variety of them, and not just the few who can deal with tanks. In fact I'm all for middlesticks returning.

B1naryB0tJun 23, 20151 votes

I'm just annoyed I have to recalculate all 6 of my Azir builds.

OverpoweredSoapJun 23, 20151 votes

Karma Definitely will enjoy the Liandry changes.

ParessJun 23, 20151 votes

Anivia item 3151 finally viable on her ? Same for Sejuani Velkoz , they will hurt !

DarkwindJun 23, 20151 votes

liandry's has always been viable on her, just not ideal. You can get it any time there are multiple tanks on the enemy team and it'll work wonders. If anyone tries to build something like item 3717 item 3083 item 3047 item 3143 , your item 3027 item 3040 item 3020 item 3151 will absolutely destroy them. Of course, that build is about 2x as strong with the changes as without

badoogaJun 23, 20151 votes

Malzahar + item 3116 + item 3151

GG WP Malz op

VekknaJun 23, 20151 votes

I'm curious to see how the new Runeglaive, item 3115 , item 3151 item 3152 and item 3116 will fit into AP bruiser builds on Evelynn .

With her scaling, that's a lot of hp, pen, on-hit, utility, and CDR baked into a fairly high-AP build.

Kittenpaste CoJun 25, 20151 votes

I'm most excited for my Teemo and Heimerdinger. My Teemo gains 50 AP, in his current build, at the cost of 10% atk speed. My Heimerdinger -might- be getting a buff, depending on how the new Rylai's works.

If the Rylai's changes cause Heimer's turret bullets, rather than just the blast as they currently are, to add slow... drools I mean, I already can lure dumb players into a turret field and have them slowed by the blasts, then add an ult in there to get a double kill sometimes. Why not make it even better?

7ha7guy777Jun 25, 20151 votes

If i did the math right, item 3089 item 3027 item 3116 item 3151 item 3135 item 3020 will give around 775 ap with dragon buff once the changes go through (120, 100, 100, 80, 80 respectively + around 36 from runes and masteries). This build will have 60 more base ap (as well as the 5% extra amp) than it does currently. You could sub RoA and Rylai's out for Zhonya's and Luden's and you can sub Liandry's for Morellonomicon and still get get the same ap value. I can see Malzahar and using some combination of these items being quite scary.