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Vayne needs MECHANICAL counterplay in her kit.

Ryujin No Sora·7/6/2019, 7:26:55 PM·14 votes·4,382 views

Not a single thing in her kit has actual mechanical counterplay and i'm sorry but beeing oneshotted doesn't mean mechanical counterplay.

Q: Is fine standalone but R breaks it.

W: Nothing to be built against it you just accept that you die if she isnt oneshotted.

E:You cannot outplay this unless you have multiple gapclosers and QSS mid knockback animation and use your gapcloser at the exact buffer time to maintain momentum which for : 1:Takes immense mechanical skill and low ping 2:Still allows her to R-Q and anhilate your existance.

R: It's litterally disgusting without CAMOUFLAGE stealth in the past she wasnt ever a high tier adc due to how accessible pink wards were to outplay her stealth but now that's absolutely gone and she gets a free reposition and damage amplifying steroid simply for pressing a button? Which brings me to another point were people specificly devs say they dislike one item wonders to counter champs meanwhile QSS makes morde NOT FUNCTION yet even if we made pinks reveal vayne she still gets her stats and movespeed buffs. Doublestandards as always to please our little doodoo adc overlords.

Something needs to be done about this champion before she magicly pops up again ( Not like she ever dies off in soloque ) she is the EPITOME of a toxic kit but she gets a free pass because she is an ADC. Her kit is as toxic as Tryndameres in the sense than even tho trynda gets a 5sec immunity she gets tons more mobility tons more dmg that cannot be built against has THE easiest self peel in the game and constant stealth spam.

Suggestions for a rework? P: Idk can be kept the same. Q:Same W:Toggle ability that gives bonus AD while down( Yi E pretty much ) and does true dmg on hit aka a good ol tankbuster filling niche. E: Add a small charge time if it's 25% charged it slows ( ARROW TO THE KNEE there i even gave you a patch notes meme ) 50% charge knockbacks slightly 100% charge will be the current E stats. R: True stealth removed now has camouflage stealth ( smaller radius than twitch stealth detection will be ok as long as she can be detected ).

Just get rid of these 2 item powerspike late game gods from existance. Draven might hit harder early but he nowhere near scales as much as Vayne.

60 Comments

5kcheesesticks7/6/2019, 7:41:11 PM11 votes

Vayne is a huge problem mid-late game, fed or not. They need to tone down her W.

Hayaishi27/6/2019, 10:42:38 PM6 votes

Vayne has always been cancer and Riot buffs her every season anyways They don't care.

D357R0Y3R7/6/2019, 8:09:07 PM6 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ryujin No Sora,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pOe6ZHnh,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-07-06T19:26:55.860+0000)

i'm sorry but beeing oneshotted doesn't mean mechanical counterplay.

I'm sorry but not every champion needs mechanical counterplay

if a champion has an easier time getting oneshot than an other, than that's a great trade off

Vayne has no mechanical counterplay because with her 550 range she isn't as safe as Ezreal unless she fights immobile melees

Eedat7/6/2019, 8:13:42 PM5 votes

So completely gut a champ that isn't really overperforming to begin with?

CHEWYARMS7/7/2019, 5:08:05 AM4 votes

Really no reason her stun can't be a skill shot.

Boom fixed.

ChaosReyn7/6/2019, 8:26:05 PM4 votes

"There's no counterplay to her E, except that there is, and it requires good timing and knowledge, but who the fuck has THAT?!"

KFCeytron7/6/2019, 11:25:07 PM4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ryujin No Sora,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pOe6ZHnh,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-07-06T19:26:55.860+0000)

Suggestions for a rework? P: Idk can be kept the same. Q:Same W:Toggle ability that gives bonus AD while down( Yi E pretty much ) and does true dmg on hit aka a good ol tankbuster filling niche. E: Add a small charge time if it's 25% charged it slows ( ARROW TO THE KNEE there i even gave you a patch notes meme ) 50% charge knockbacks slightly 100% charge will be the current E stats. R: True stealth removed now has camouflage stealth ( smaller radius than twitch stealth detection will be ok as long as she can be detected ).

Keeping passive and Q the same is fine. The changes you suggest, though...

Changing W to do true damage on hit rather than requiring three (two with stacked Rageblade) removes counterplay. Instead of trying to disengage or otherwise avoid Vayne's autos intermittently to negate her steroid, every hit now has that effect. Wow.

Some abilities, like Xerath's Q, work okay as spells that have to be charged up. Increasing the charge time simply enhances the spell, and the opponent gets a bit of warning that it's incoming, which is fair because these are generally long-range, high-impact spells that don't really behave any differently whether they hit immediately or after a short delay. If Vayne's E had an obvious charge time, though, the spell would be utterly useless, as targets would get an extensive warning that they should move away from any walls, or even reposition so that they get knocked in a beneficial direction. At that point, they might even want to be hit. Abilities that charge up are meant to allow and encourage opponents to avoid them, not to negate the ability entirely.

This R change would make it utterly useless. Why are you comparing Vayne's R invisibility to Twitch's Q camo? The former lasts one second, and is really only useful if Vayne is within range of her opponent. Twitch's camo lasts 10-14 seconds, allowing him to sneak up on opponents (it's an "Ambush," after all), avoid being spotted by wards, etc. It ends when he attacks, because there'd be no purpose to being camouflaged intermittently in the middle of combat. If Vayne's invisibility became a camo effect, it would basically be cosmetic.

Terrible, terrible changes that reveal a fundamental misunderstanding of game design and mechanics.

[{quoted}](name=Ryujin No Sora,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pOe6ZHnh,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-07-06T19:26:55.860+0000)

Just get rid of these 2 item powerspike late game gods from existance. Draven might hit harder early but he nowhere near scales as much as Vayne.

Ah, now I see the issue: you don't like being beaten in late game after failing to close out early. That's not a counterplay issue; that's "a human problem."

ZephyrDrake7/6/2019, 11:34:23 PM3 votes

there is so much wrong in this thread and no notion of what "counterplay" even means. What you want is not "counterplay" what you want is "make vayne be the worst champion in the game"

Illabethe7/6/2019, 7:30:44 PM2 votes

Have you ever even played Vayne?

Vayne's "Mechanical counterplay:"

Her ult untargets every single time she uses Q. You cannot just enable auto attack and spam Q. You actually have to re-engage combat and bring back your targeting.

P.S. Her ult has been severely nerfed over time. More than any other champ. It's lost over half of its stat boost since season 7.