So why are jinx and trist lane bullies when they scale well into late game?

weeaboomer·Jan 9, 2016·2 votes·1,232 views

Specially jinx being able to hit you with an aoe crit rocket at 850 range?

21 Comments

MohawkBirdJan 9, 20161 votes

Trist is a lot easier to deal with than JInx in my opinion. As far as an actual answer for you I have no idea why certain hyper carries get to have their late game monstrous power while still being powerful in the early game.

weeaboomerJan 9, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Trist is a lot easier to deal with than JInx in my opinion. As far as an actual answer for you I have no idea why certain hyper carries get to have their late game monstrous power while still being powerful in the early game.

Trist is still a bit more slippery with that huge leap that who knows for what reason now get's a free reset off e....

Dominick DestineJan 9, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Trist is a lot easier to deal with than JInx in my opinion. As far as an actual answer for you I have no idea why certain hyper carries get to have their late game monstrous power while still being powerful in the early game.

Because they are always susceptible to burst.

I can kill any ADC aside from maybe Graves in one-combo as Evelynn towards the middle and end of mid game. The same cannot be said for hybrid hyperscalers like Riven, Nasus or even Kindred.

shyieJan 9, 20161 votes

Well, most ADCs are late game champs anyway. With the exception of maybe Urgot and Caitlyn, all other ADCs turn into hypercarries late game. They're balanced out in terms of game progression too. For example, Vayne and Kog'Maw have horrible early games, but scale into late game gigacarries. Jinx and Trist are solid overall, but won't beat a Vayne or Kog'Maw late game, trust me.

OperationDEEZ1Jan 9, 20163 votes

Vayne is not weak early game. Sorry.

weeaboomerJan 9, 20165 votes

{quoted}

Vayne is not weak early game. Sorry.

Yes she is.

OperationDEEZ1Jan 9, 20163 votes

https://badabingbadabambadaboom.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/nuhuh.jpg

shyieJan 9, 20161 votes

Compared to Lucian? Or Caitlyn? Or Trist? Yea she is.

MohawkBirdJan 9, 20162 votes

Weak is a bit of a stretch. Being weak implies that you can take advantage of it, and with Vayne you simply cannot. Between can condemn, ult, and tumble there is almost no way to punish a Vayne during the laning phase. If Vayne wants to play safe, there is nothing you can do to stop a Vayne from playing safe and just farming til her 2 item powerspike.

weeaboomerJan 9, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Weak is a bit of a stretch. Being weak implies that you can take advantage of it, and with Vayne you simply cannot. Between can condemn, ult, and tumble there is almost no way to punish a Vayne during the laning phase. If Vayne wants to play safe, there is nothing you can do to stop a Vayne from playing safe and just farming til her 2 item powerspike.

Yeah nothing like a caitlyn and a poke support in lane. Unless vayne has raka next to her and having raka is just bs on any adc. She ain't doing shit in lane. I don't know how reliable champion.gg is but according to it 47% win rate against a fucking twitch???

MohawkBirdJan 9, 20163 votes

It's funny though because Vayne currently has a high win rate for matchups that would seem very unfavorable to her. She's got a 54.62% win rate against Caitlyn, and she has a 52.41% win rate against Lucian, two champions who are the textbook counters for Vayne because they are known as lane bullies. If she's winning most Lucian and Caitlyn matchups that must say something about her "weak" early game.

http://www.elophant.com/league-of-legends/champion/vayne/stats

Got the info from here in case you are wondering. Numbers might change slightly.

MunchCrunchLunchJan 9, 20161 votes

{quoted}

It's funny though because Vayne currently has a high win rate for matchups that would seem very unfavorable to her. She's got a 54.62% win rate against Caitlyn, and she has a 52.41% win rate against Lucian, two champions who are the textbook counters for Vayne because they are known as lane bullies. If she's winning most Lucian and Caitlyn matchups that must say something about her "weak" early game.

http://www.elophant.com/league-of-legends/champion/vayne/stats

Got the info from here in case you are wondering. Numbers might change slightly.

well vayne is just by far the best adc at being adc because she can simply kill tanks and squishies. basically anyone. at roughly the same speed.

weeaboomerJan 9, 20161 votes

{quoted}

It's funny though because Vayne currently has a high win rate for matchups that would seem very unfavorable to her. She's got a 54.62% win rate against Caitlyn, and she has a 52.41% win rate against Lucian, two champions who are the textbook counters for Vayne because they are known as lane bullies. If she's winning most Lucian and Caitlyn matchups that must say something about her "weak" early game.

http://www.elophant.com/league-of-legends/champion/vayne/stats

Got the info from here in case you are wondering. Numbers might change slightly.

Then what the hell are we supposed to rely on? Different websites hold different numbers. Which is the actual reliable source for these numbers?

MohawkBirdJan 9, 20161 votes

Now that I cannot answer. I'd assume most other websites will hold very similar statistics though as long as proper criteria is given. I am pretty sure elophant takes from Plat+ games, so other websites that take from Plat+ games should see a very similar trend to elophant.

DoxkidJan 9, 20161 votes

The one that say's you are wrong.

Slamurai JackJan 9, 20162 votes

Caitlyn just plain sucks atm and Vayne has always done well against Lucian no matter how good either of them are because he has to go into her short range in order to hit her. You want to really expose Vayne's weak early game? You bully her with champs like Draven and MF whose all in is just too overpowering for her to handle before midgame.

weeaboomerJan 9, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Well, most ADCs are late game champs anyway. With the exception of maybe Urgot and Caitlyn, all other ADCs turn into hypercarries late game. They're balanced out in terms of game progression too. For example, Vayne and Kog'Maw have horrible early games, but scale into late game gigacarries. Jinx and Trist are solid overall, but won't beat a Vayne or Kog'Maw late game, trust me.

and Why not? Jinx can get 2 crit autos before vayne gets into range. One being at 850 range.

shyieJan 9, 20161 votes

Vayne players aren't that bad, even better into higher elo. One should be smart enough to ult+Q to proc the invisibility and dodge the rocket AAs. If the Jinx doesn't switch to Pow Pow, she's screwed over.

RebonackJan 9, 20161 votes

{quoted} Jinx and Trist are solid overall, but won't beat a Vayne or Kog'Maw late game, trust me.

If Trist or Jinx try to straight up fight Kog when his W is active, they'll get wrecked.

But Jinx with Rapidfire Cannon has no reason to ever be in Kog's auto-attack range. Once she gets snowballing and the team fight is winding down, she'll be even stronger and Kog's W will have run out, making him an easy target due to Get Excited.

Trist can bait out Kog's W and blast him away with her Ult, and then jump in and smash his face when his W goes on cooldown.

Both of them can beat Kog easily if they play smart. Any ADC with a disengage can kill Kog by baiting his W.

Hayaishi2Jan 9, 20161 votes

Tristana shouldn't even be able to trade in lane.

ModKnightsKemplarJan 9, 20161 votes

I feel like part of the reason there's some misconception about this is that marksmen don't seem as weak early when they are playing against each other... because they are both a little bit weak.

Either run sustain or play someone who can bully even harder, like MF. That's my go-to strat for dealing with them.