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Cinderhulk is underpowered in earlygame, here is an idea to balance it

Velkozito·5/5/2017, 5:41:52 PM·24 votes·1,758 views

Greetings Summoners,

item 1409 is the first item you must buy when you play a tanky jungler, but the problem is, it's not a good item until lategame. In addition, item 3068 is similar to item 1409 in earlygame, except that it gives + 60 armor. Don't get me wrong, I know that as item 1409 is cheaper, and gives the features of both item 1039 and item 1041 as well as a smite improvement, it is absolutely legit that it be inferior to item 3068 . However, in my honest opinion it is still too weak. This is why I personally build item 1039 + item 3068 on junglers like Zac , Amumu ...

Here are my ideas.

First of all, we make item 3068 deal no bonus damage to monsters, so that it would not be an option for junglers.

Second, we make item 1409 a more viable choice for junglers, especially in earlygame :

item 1409 : +25 armor +300 hp (nerfed from 400) +10% bonus health (nerfed from 15%)

This means we need a new build path : 2625 gold = item 3711 (1000 gold) + item 3751 (1100 gold) + item 1029 (300 gold) + 225 gold

=> Some armor would allow junglers to take less damage when they clear their camps. I think it's annoying having to build armor in addition to my jungle item to be able to jungle without taking too much damage.

=> +400hp=>+300hp and 15%=>10% nerf : As we add armor to the item, we have to nerf the hp it gives.

If we apply my ideas:

=> In earlygame, with only item 1409 you would get 330hp and 25 armor (value : 1380 gold) instead of 460hp (value : 1200 gold). (+180 gold value in earlygame)

=> In lategame, with a full tank build like item 3047 item 1409 item 3065 item 3742 item 3193 item 3083 (+1950 bonus hp with my Cinderhulk, +2050 bonus hp with the current one) you would get 495hp and 25 armor (value : 1820 gold) instead of 707,5hp (value : 1885 gold). (-65 gold value in lategame)

As you can see, the item is a tiny bit less powerful in lategame, but there is a true difference in earlygame, as you get some armor to clear the jungle.

This means item 1409 would just be more balanced

In the meantime, item 3068 would still be better than item 1409 (as it gives +425hp and +60 armor for a value of 2330 gold).

Thank you for reading, I hope you like my idea, if you don't please tell me why in the comments and maybe we can try to improve it !

Rito please try this on PBE :D

32 Comments

Clashawn5/5/2017, 6:12:04 PM6 votes

Jungler is the most broken role today, you are crazy dude, i don't want cinderhulk change ! T un fou mon gars on va se taper si ça continue summoner 4 summoner 4

LankPants5/6/2017, 12:44:56 AM6 votes

Just bump the HP bonus from 15% to 20%. Tank junglers being a bit weak early is fine, but they need to scale better.

Besides it's good to have at least one strong HP item.

Ben Sharpio5/5/2017, 6:01:44 PM5 votes

cinderhulk is just boring in general. Especially if you want to have an impact early game. Playing with cinderhulk is too underwhelming. I just build the AD item, then build sunfire afterwards.

Funkin Dunkin5/5/2017, 7:38:12 PM4 votes

Back in season 2 and season 3 when jungle items sucked and exp wasn't tied directly to an item, I would actually start my jungle out with cloth and 4 red potions. (They were a lot cheaper back then) Now, because exp is tied to a specific item, there's no room to build off anything but the two starting items. They should put the exp tied to the Smite summon. This way if a champion wants to build item 3068 instead of item 1401 he can.

Duckstar666135/5/2017, 6:09:01 PM4 votes

That's a great idea man. This would actually allow tank junglers to gank more in earlygame, as they would take less damage while jungling. A nice indirect nerf to Lee Sin, Graves, Elise...

Rito plz mek dis happen

TEA Nietzsche 5/6/2017, 12:45:32 PM1 votes

I think simply increasing the bonus damage to monsters of item 3751 would be much more effective. That way tanks clear faster and can't get counterjungled anymore that easily. The changes to Cinderhulk went into the right direction already.

macromite5/6/2017, 3:01:49 PM1 votes

cinder is actually ridic right now. with hp being a rarer resource giving it a boost is crazy.

MunchCrunchLunch5/6/2017, 11:28:16 PM1 votes

here is a solution. don't build cinder. if you're behind. build it but at that point you will probably lose because cinder junglers dont scale well due to bork

Yax Jasbon5/5/2017, 6:46:07 PM1 votes

Which is why you should not upgrade your jg item until after you reach a certain lvl, i stay with its components, build some item in the meantime, and then upgrade it. cinderhulk does not have a base damage but instead is lvl based which is why I usually do this.

Keevalroy5/5/2017, 7:31:19 PM1 votes

I would just suggest a base health increase to make up for the lost HP of tank items.

Spoofghoul5/5/2017, 9:24:09 PM1 votes

i would like item 3068 to keep it's bonus dmg vs monsters because it's nice to be able to grab a few jungle camps when playing a tank in the toplane

i see no reason why either item should be exclusive for monster/minions

if that happens ill likely buy neither and go straight for something like item 1402 or item 3077 / item 3748

AirKingNeo5/5/2017, 10:20:35 PM1 votes

Sounds like a good idea.

However a tank jungler probably wouldn't build Warmog's Armor. The item isn't very good and completely checked out and outright worse than ever tank item. The item needs a rework (aka no more out of combat regen).