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Riot: What is your vision for why you'd pick Ryze?

Wobly··10 votes·3,487 views

I'd love for Riot Repertoir to answer this but I'm curious what anyone thinks on this question:

Riot's design team has talked about how they want every champion to be unique, for every champion to have something that distinguishes them from other champs in their role so you always have a reason to pick any champion in any game besides "their numbers are the highest right now."

With the Ryze rework, it looks like they're changing his scaling ratios and his passive so that he no longer benefits as much from the old build that gave him defense and damage at the same time. On the one hand, this makes sense since it eliminates the issue where Ryze had only one viable build path that gave him the most possible damage and defense. On the other hand, I think it will probably lead to Ryze being built more like a typical AP mage. Part of the reason you picked Ryze before the rework was that he gave you sustained magic damage from a champ who wasn't squishy and vulnerable to assassins. Now with a more AP focused build, it seems like he'll be a late game short range mage with high sustained damage who needs to stay in the backline with the ADC to avoid getting deleted.

Why would you pick the new Ryze instead of say, Karthus, Viktor, or Cassiopeia, who all have that same role down? What is it about his kit that makes him a unique pick? I don't think I see it right now.

17 Comments

RiotRiotRepertoir13 votes

Following this update, there should still be a few reasons to pick Ryze over other sustained damage mages you've mentioned:

  • Strong anti-mobility. Rune Prison remains as a point-and-click instant root on a target.
  • Difficult to burst down when played well. Even though Frozen Heart is less core on this Ryze so he won't just always be baseline tanky, he has a shield and instant root that makes him a less viable target for assassins and the like.
  • Strong matchups in top lane. Given his kit, Ryze has historically (and probably will still) have more favorable matchups against some of the top lane melee roster than Karthus, Viktor, Cassiopeia, etc. This allows teams to get high mid-late game damage from this position
  • Very powerful in double AP comps. Percent MR shred enables double AP comps to not fall off so hard against teams that run heavy MR.

Hope this helps!

Wobly3 votes

Thanks for the response. I'm glad you guys had a clear idea of what you wanted to be unique about him. It all sounds good, my only reservation is how that second point will turn out once he hits live. Good luck with the final tweaks.

ItemsGuy1 votes

Aside from in-game statistics and damage types etc. (he can do magic damage and is tanky and has a shred and can bully enemy top lanes and this and that), which can change wildly and unintentionally with the state of the game or also be associated with other champions within the role, what's the main reason one should always be able to pick Ryze and be comfortable with him having a proper spot on a team, even if by numbers or mechanics (ex. current meta favors sustained CC rather than bursts of it, or HP is being prioritized over MR, etc.) he is less "powerful" than other picks? What's the unique gameplay niche that Ryze would occupy, that can't be described with raw in-game stats or individual mechanics (such as Rengar being a preparation-based, brush-favoring assassin, who can be comfortably picked as long as there are non-player units to build Ferocity on and some amount of brush)?

Right now, it looks like a lot of how you categorize individual champions and justify their "uniqueness" on a roster of over 100 competing champions, is through a raw combination of the individual mechanics in their kit (Ezreal is "unique" because he's a mobile, poke carry with a global ult, which...means there's really only one or two degrees of separation between him and Corki "1 Armor Shred And 3 Magic Damage Abilities" The Daring Bombardier, meaning one is going to be "more viable" than the other at any given time), rather than the implications of their playstyle on a larger, strategic scale. As a point of reference, in DotA, you have Broodmother, who you pick because of her ability to dominate chunks of the map with her spider webs (which she then uses to set up kill zones or pressure lanes), and Chen, who you pick because of his roaming, monster-based utility and protective (and Enchantress, who you pick because of her roaming, monster-based utility and chasing power).

At the PAX panel, you guys talked a lot about wanting champions to have unique inputs, outputs, and strategic niches--and that got me really excited, because that's what League really, really needs at this point (especially with S5's focus on strategic diversity, one of the most important things in a game with over 100 playable characters), but I'm not seeing much of any of those three in Ryze--and even what I do see (the windows of power and cluster-based E damage) doesn't fit with the rest of the kit particularly well or in any way that could create a strong enough niche for our favorite blue mage, here.

Sire Hippington8 votes

The main point off picking Ryze remains the same: You can afford to built rather tanky and still deal high damage, and most of all you have a range point n click instant lockdown. That W is still one off the most powerfull tolls in the game, cause no matter how slipery your enemie is, if he gets into range he will be locked down.

Wobly2 votes

But with the nerfed mana ratios and increased AP ratios, it seems like they're reducing his ability to build tanky and still do damage. If you run the numbers, his individual abilities actually do less damage in the new kit if he uses his old bruiser build. You do, however, get significantly more damage from an AP build now.

The Rune Prison is a nice reliable lock down, but I'm not sure it's enough to differentiate Ryze from similar champions like Cassiopeia, who also has kiting / slowing potential even if it is a little less reliable.

Sire Hippington1 votes

nerfed mana increased ap ratios? thats true for Q, but E got double the mana ratio and less ap than befor, and W has slightly less mana and far less ap....

he still deals enough damage with AA+Roa+FH+SV+random last item

Duke Anax2 votes

They haven't changed his build all that much, his ratios:

Q old: 40% AP 6% Mana new: 55% AP 2-4% Mana W old: 60% AP 4,5% Mana new: 40% AP 2,5% Mana E old: 35-105% AP 1-3% Mana new: 30-120% AP, 2-8% Mana

His AP ratios actually aren't all that different and while he lost some Mana ratios on Q and W he got a massive Buff on E, which is also a lot more reliable.

I'm gonna build him item 3003 item 3027 item 3025 a bit less armor, but CC instead, and now you actually have windows to use that Spellblade. The new Mana item may fit in there too.

He can still be Durable, his damage is even more reliable, but a buit more bursty rather than constant

Juggernaut6281 votes

I don't even work for Riot and know why: his kit is outdated. Literally every ability is on-click and he is strong all the time. Since looking at competitive play is more useful than Bronze players, they look at competitive play and see that Ryze is able to nuke people quite fast and doesn't take much skill as he can just click on someone and unleash hell whenever he wants. With the rework, he will be able to nuke harder and faster than our current Ryze which is Riot's intentions.

Wobly1 votes

Yeah, I agree about the problems with Ryze's old kit, but this doesn't answer my question: what differentiates his new kit from any other champion who fills a similar role (like Karthus or Cass?).

MetalGearTeemu1 votes

He can't be reliable, all teamfights must be clusterfucks of wiffed skillshots even at high level.

Riot HATES reliable strategy and drafting, and has to add that random element of constant skillshot wiffs turning fights. If people wanted a tactical game rather then a twitch game they'd play dota.

Its like they saw bloodline champions, and later smite and went. THATS WHERE WE WANNA BE BOIZ.

qetzel4 votes

He was bullshit in lane. That was changed by adding a skillshot. However, given that he still has a point and click root at the same range as before, outside of lane he is just as reliable. You can't dodge if you are rooted! In fact, the skillshot opens up more options late game. Ryze can help a little in a siege and check bushes.

pE4CbxDPQO1 votes

I usually pick ryze under three circumstnaces 1: They have a Kalista 2: Their top laner is Renektom 3: I have a xerath on my team.

GaleWinUnleashed1 votes

They shifted some of his tankiness from his build into his passive shield. I expect his normal build now will tend rather more toward AP than it did before, though AA Staff and Rod of Ages should still be core items.

Ryze retains his previous ability to guarantee a lockdown on any single target, then deal heavy focused damage to that target and a small area around them. His identity hasn't changed much, if at all, he just has slightly different mechanics now.

MrBuffington1 votes

To me (I have a handful of games on PBE), Ryze still feels like that same speedy rapid fire battle mage, even without FH. He still scales with mana, so if he's not building FH he can go RG, which honestly helps his engage/sticking potential, something very important to Ryze. Just because he gets free CDR on his ult, plus he scales with mana kind of keeps him from building like a typical mage; he can afford to go tankier, since he's getting damage from mana, where champs like Karthus or Cassiopeia don't really get damage from building mana.

There are definitely changes to how he feels; his passive adds a whole new dimension that you have to play around and you might need to learn some new combos to really maximize it, not to mention the Q skillshot causes you to pick fights differently; I'm not sure all his numbers are quite right yet, but overall he still pretty much feels like the same champion as live Ryze: his W is still awesome, he rapid fires spells (his passive opens up some pretty crazy long combos), he's still pretty tanky (especially for a mage), he runs really fast (esp with ghost+flash, RG, & ult).

The Yetii Rider1 votes

I honestly don't see what the problem is building Frozen Heart on this new Ryze. So he lost some mana ratios so the 400 mana doesn't give him AS MUCH damage as it does on live currently. So what? Most mages build a defensive item, it's just usually Zhonyas and Zhonyas has too much AP for what it gives anyway.

So he has 30% CDR and you'd be "wasting" 10% of Frozen Heart's CDR. So what? Glacial Shroud is still a good build in lane and you're likely going to finish Frozen Heart before you hit 16 anyway. If you try to force yourself to build only 10% CDR to avoid "wasting" the CDR on his ult you're going to gimp yourself by spending most of the game without 40%. I'd rather have my damage transition from mid to late be a little off than just straight up have a terrible mid-game because I'm only buying 30% CDR on a spammable mage.

Frozen Heart gives 100 armor and an aura that reduces the sustained damage the enemy team is able to deal. Ryze, being someone who deals sustained damage, can use this to turn team fights into prolonged trades (that he will win). The item is still amazing on him. Just because it's not as amazing as on live currently doesn't mean everyone needs to stop building it. It's utility, and it's tank. Ryze needs both of these, not just hyper damage.

Beoridas1 votes

someone clearly stated and showed how pretty much everything in his kit is a nerf. shield or no. shield doesnt have mr or armor and eats 100% of the dmg sent its way.

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