Meta: Has Gameplay & Balance Always Been This Angry?

Wobly··39 votes·4,221 views

I've only been reading these boards for a few months, and I gotta say, there's more ragers on these boards than in my actual games of League. I think Riot's made some big mistakes lately (see the repeated Jungle nerfs that they are finally starting to address), but I'm curious. For anyone who's been here longer than me: did the season 5 changes create all this anger? Or were the boards always like this, and season 5 changes are just what its hot to be angry about right now?

EDIT: I think the fact that many of the responses to this thread are "the balance is the worst its ever been" rather than talking about the state of the boards confirms that the boards are angry. But it doesn't tell me whether that anger is new.

There was one post that was really on point from Test Account though, so I'm going to post it here in the OP in the hopes that more people read it:

[{quoted}](name=test account,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kAPET5Au,comment-id=000d,timestamp=2015-03-09T15:03:14.089+0000)

The forums always had their share of rage and QQ. There's been a bit of a shift for the worse, though I think it's mostly a matter of perception and the switch from forums to boards.

I think part of it is the way the new boards are set up, combined with a playerbase that is now much larger than it had been before. The voting system allows a vocal minority to push things to the top, and with the size of the playerbase that vocal group just happens to have enough votes to put things to the top. People who are more level headed are also generally less likely to downvote things -- we see this phenomena a lot on reddit, which these new boards are quite obviously based off of. It's referred to there as the circlejerk. You can guess why. The upvote/downvote system works on reddit because it's set up in such a way that if people strongly disagree with the more vocal proponents of a community they can break off to make their own. In some cases, the new community actually becomes more popular than the old one as a result. Since that's not an option here, and it seems like many people are still unfamiliar with how the voting system works we are all essentially stuck in the vocal-group's echo chamber.

Combined with that, it definitely feels like Rioters as a whole, with some few exceptions, have become quieter and less communicative here. I'm not sure if it's because so much vitriol is being pushed to the top and visibly "favored" by the playerbase and they're trying to avoid it, which is understandable, or if they're actually actively just less interested in communicating with us all. Back in the days of the forums, you could see Rioters posting more often and more frequently -- there were also more than just a few of them posting. That, combined with the fact that "upvotes" didn't strictly decide what was at the top in default view, definitely helped to calm people down and create more civil discourse.

I'd also like to add that Fed By Snu Snu makes a really good point, and you ought to read through his post, along with Eedat's (who is rapidly becoming one of my favorite posters here) response. As someone who was here in S1, and eventually left for a while because of how toxic the community was before returning once it got better, it definitely feels like nowadays we have less of a chance to influence the game meaningfully. Riot isn't some small indie company anymore, though, and we all maybe need to come to accept that. The removal of the tribunal has let the toxicity grow again, and as others have pointed out that's creating growing discontent. As Eedat pointed out, many of the recent patch changes feel very haphazard, even if you can clearly see what the goal behind them was, and that's definitely not helping.

Over all, however, I firmly believe it's the way the boards are set up and the quiet on the part of many rioters (which may or may not be a partial fault of the way the boards function). We had anger in the forums, but it always felt less apparent.

86 Comments

Fed by Snu Snu43 votes

In S2 there was Irelia. All Irelia mains were plat+. But champions that could deal with it existed, like Jax. Tanks weren't shit as well, so losing lane didn't necessarily mean you'd lose the game as much.

In S3 there was the new Black Cleaver. Talon reached close to 60% win rate. It was fixed. Then it was league of warmog's. I never had a real problem with it, but it was also fixed. After that, the season was great and, apart from select few cases(Urgot,Olaf,etc), you could play most champions. Tanks and utility was still good and everyone had their chance to influence teamfights. S3 had some snowballing problems and some champions like Kassadin and Gragas, which you deserved to lose if you didn't ban.

In S4 the initial perseverance mastery was the starting problem. Nasus was straight up unkillable in lane. This was one of the most clear examples of Riot not caring about community feedback anymore, because everyone's reaction when seeing "3% of missing health" was "HOLY CRAP, THAT'S OP". Apparently Riot wasn't that wise and it went live anyway. I called Nasus would become op a month before the pre-season patch went live. We had to endure that shit for close to 4 months. Oh ye, we also have Riven being straight up a free win later in the season, even beating Renekton as soon as she would get a single kill.

After that point, it's where things slowly turned to the current situation. Tanks slowly being nerfed over and over again, the ADC item rework making ADCs even stronger than before, etc.

And this season's balance decisions are worse than all of that. Champions getting guted for no reason (veigar and morde), champions that deserved nerfs having them go overboard (kassadin and azir), champions that didn't deserve nerfs getting them anyway (Jayce), mana and health regen being changed in such a radical and nonsensical way that champions who were perfectly fine are now called cancer as if they caused the problems (Lissandra). All while certain champions like Zed get special treatment due to their flashy plays and actually admitted so, being called "healthy" among other things.

Sure, we did have guttings in previous season and noone was happy about them, but at least most of the time they targeted the proper champions and they weren't THAT hypocritical either. (do you know why Kha'zix has been nerfed repeatedly? For every reason that Zed is being called healthy about.)

Edit: Thinking about it, the longer you go back, the more you had the feeling you could influence the game. As time went, the feeling of hopelessness grows bigger. AFK-ers and ragers have also vastly increased, which only increases the overall level of frustration of the community. The quality of low and mid diamond has also VASTLY decreased, so the game in general has been deteriorating.

Eedat21 votes

Going to have to agree and disagree with a few points. I agree that Veigar didnt warrant the nerfs he got, but I understand what Riot was going for. Veigar had one of those kits that was extremely overbearing against certain matchups. He could 100-0 any AP carry faster than a Zed or Leblanc using pretty much point-and-click- abilities. He never really needed DFG to do so. What made it even worse is that he scaled off of your AP. So if you were beating him in lane, you were adding damage to his kit as well. It's not a small amount either. Not to mention his infinite scaling. That being said, gutting him completely was not the best way to handle him. Morde's changes made him about the same if not just a hair stronger. It still shows Riot is at least attempting to bring some older champs up to date. The reason Jayce got nerfed was because he was overbearingly strong and popular on the Asian servers. He absolutely dominated at worlds last season. So what felt like a nerf out of the blue to Jayce on NA/EU was actually aimed at his strength and popularity on other servers. Have to remember that NA and EU aren't the only ones playing the game

Riot has been doing a decent job at attempting to rebalance the ADC pool. Their initial attempts were aiming at bringing down popular AD casters at the time like Corki and Lucian. Unfortunately it worked too well which is when we saw the age of hypercarries. It's been pretty well rebalanced since then and most ADCs have obvious strengths and weaknesses.

Top lane diversity is actually much better now as opposed to the old pick a tank and farm at each other lane that it was for awhile. Yes, champs like Riven, Darius, and Nasus were problems for awhile but they've been reasonably balanced out. But at least top laners have the ability to pick a more carry-style champion now instead of being relegated to tanky farm-bot.

Supports....I think supports are stronger now than they've ever been. They have been given many more options over the years as far as itemization. It used to be the support got a sightstone, boots, more wards, philosophers stone, and spammed oracle elixers. The introduction or trinket wards and sweepers relieved some of the pressure off them an they can actually be more impactful on the game now with their itemization

Midlane took a huge hit when Riot nerfed mana regen hard this season. Champions like Zed were indirectly buffed by these changes because AP midlaners lost the ability to harass as much as him. Some of these nerfs were warranted because last season midlane definitely stood out as the strongest lane. Some could argue the hypercarry ADCs were, but I would disagree. Midlaners had the power to be very strong at all points of the game while these hypercarries needed a lot of time to ramp up. That being said, Riot should have made appropriate changes to mid laners that dont require mana.

Whats really killing the game right now is the sorry state of the jungle. Last year Riot made a ton of jungle changes. The intent of this was to give the junglers a chance to be as impactful as some of the other roles. For some reason in season 5, Riot decided to do the exact opposite. The season 5 Jungle was nerfed into the ground. Only the champions that could actually survive it started doing well. It's not even the fact that these champions are stronger than they were last season. They're actually weaker. The problem is is that nobody else can survive/clear the current jungle well enough to be nearly as relevant as them in game. Why do you think champs like J4 became so strong? Did J4 get any buffs from last season when he was a 'weaker' jungler? Nope. Its literally because he was one of the few that can actual clear 4-5 camps before having to back. His extra armor and attack speed from his E gave him just enough to survive early. Last patch Riot took away the extra armor from his E and what happened? His winrate plummeted from 54% to 49% pretty much overnight. In an attempt to limit the power of the better season 5 junglers, Riot decided to just nerf all junglers over and over and over. This made playing these tanky junglers almost impossible and did little to bridge the gap.

There should be plenty of changes to the jungle next patch. A lot of tanky junglers are getting directly buffed. Wolf and Raptor camps are getting damage nerfs. The new jungle items will help tanks clear better. I don't think anyone can say for sure if these changes will be enough. At least they're trying. Its not easy to balance a game as we are almost to the 124th champion. Most people don't give Riot enough credit for it. It seems the community would rather demand more and more content then complain about when they get it. Small tweeks to anything can have unintended rippling consequences.

EDIT: to answer the OP, the boards have always been this angry. People are always much more vocal to complain than they are to praise.

Reazale6 votes

Veigar still has the enemy ap ratio on his ult , they butchered his E and his Q(i dislike the Q change but thats personal) but left that untouched , he is not the only champ to scale off of other stats , %max hp dmg scales with ur health, so does %current if ur hp is high at the moment. And Leblanc? maybe Fed Veigar could do that to ap carrys , but leblanc does that shit to anyone, she can chunk tanks/bruisers for 1/2 of their hp and be ready for another go in 15 secs...

ADC are a cancer to the game, they are the reason mages cant have sustain dmg unless they are tanky and why burst is so important , cos if u dont kill/leave close to death they will kill in before u get any cd back up, the amount of sustain dmg they do is stupid , and its targeted.... the whole game is circling around them , who can kill , who can back up or double team to kill theirs, its all about peeling/killing for the adc.

Top lane , who knows , i sure dont, can really talk about it.

Supports? u mean tanks/tanky supports/mages? cos that what support is about right now...

Midlane , i wont talk about midlane cos there is no point for me to do it , im too bitter about it right now so i will be more biased than usual and jungle , its me but im not seeing much of a problem , maybe it fits my style or it didnt hit the champs i play too hard, but well, cant really say.

VardenSalad2 votes

Never really understood the complaints about Jayce post-gate CD nerf myself. Jayce would get blown up so fast if you could lock him down for even part of a second. He was a big-time pain in lane if he got ahead, though, but no worse than some others.

Fed by Snu Snu6 votes

{quoted} The reason Jayce got nerfed was because he was overbearingly strong and popular on the Asian servers. He absolutely dominated at worlds last season. So what felt like a nerf out of the blue to Jayce on NA/EU was actually aimed at his strength and popularity on other servers. Have to remember that NA and EU aren't the only ones playing the game

No, he wasn't overbearing.

You can't say he was overbearing and then give a match where the skill disparsity was so huge as it was last year, especially when said champion only appeared for a HANDFUL of games. The data sample size alone means you can't claim that.

Fact is, those Koreans could pick anything and it would still look overbearing.

I don't care if NA or EU have an inferiority complex, they just have to realize that at some point. Who knows, maybe they can start improving afterwards so that they don't have to cry to Uncle Riot for nerfs and having champions like Zed so strong that even Hai can win games with him.

DemiluniS4 votes

jayce got nerfed because he was too good at taking down towers, that's it, people act like he got murdered with the nerf bat.

Fed by Snu Snu2 votes

He wasn't olaf'ed, I won't go that far as to claim that.

But he ain't in a good position either.

The reason he got nerfed wasn't tower shredding though. It was the hyper-charge interaction with critical and IE. And Riot fixed that by making critical and IE even more mandatory for him to burst anything.

DemiluniS1 votes

umm? they didn't even touch his interaction with IE or critical chance as he was never even building those. They nerfed his W mainly because with max cdr he had almost no cd, and was taking towers extremely fast.

Fed by Snu Snu5 votes

{quoted}

as he was never even building those.

This pretty much shows how oblivious you are when it comes to Jayce. I don't think I need to expand on that.

VardenSalad1 votes

Jayce had a, I believe, 325% AD (130% * 2.5 crit form IE) autoattack while using the old W if he crit at max rank with IE. And he would spit 3 in a row. At max attack speed.

You would pretty much instantly die.

V5.1: Hyper Charge.png Hyper Charge Damage modifier reduced to 70 / 80 / 90 / 100 / 110 % from 70 / 85 / 100 / 115 / 130 %.

That's what happened to Hyper Charge.

AHeroNamedHawke5 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fed by Snu Snu,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kAPET5Au,comment-id=000300000001,timestamp=2015-03-09T15:30:45.775+0000)

The reason Jayce got nerfed was because he was overbearingly strong and popular on the Asian servers. He absolutely dominated at worlds last season. So what felt like a nerf out of the blue to Jayce on NA/EU was actually aimed at his strength and popularity on other servers. Have to remember that NA and EU aren't the only ones playing the game

No, he wasn't overbearing.

You can't say he was overbearing and then give a match where the skill disparsity was so huge as it was last year, especially when said champion only appeared for a HANDFUL of games. The data sample size alone means you can't claim that.

Fact is, those Koreans could pick anything and it would still look overbearing.

I don't care if NA or EU have an inferiority complex, they just have to realize that at some point. Who knows, maybe they can start improving afterwards so that they don't have to cry to Uncle Riot for nerfs and having champions like Zed so strong that even Hai can win games with him.

That makes 0 sense

He just said "Jayce was overbearing on the asian servers" and you reply with "koreans make anything look overbearing"

They are playing against other koreans

Fisk1 votes

he was actually pretty overbearing in the right hands. The manamura buffs really really helped him and he was basically able to three shot an ADC with his W (it got buffed also). He was a humongous pain in the butt at high elo's because of his burst/poke. I think they may have gone a tiny bit to far but I think hes still in a decent place at the moment (we will probably see him in pros at some point but remember pro doesn't equal viable or even good it equals consistency in the champs ability to farm even in bad matchups mostly or it fits well into 5v5 comps).

Fed by Snu Snu2 votes

You are referring to a whole different era completely. The whole muramana and poke problems were fixed a looooong time ago, with the nerf of his gate cooldown and the nerfs to his R not giving stacks on top of tear stacking slower in general.

His poke hasn't been touched for a long time, so if he was a pain thanks to his poke, he would still be played often.

and he was basically able to three shot an ADC with his W

He was also obliged to build full glass cannon in order to do that, with practically no reliable escape when he gets caught. I call that "fair".

Have you seen a tank Jayce do it? I haven't.

You are practically "complaining" that he, as a full glass cannon, was able to burst other glass cannons. Ye, we all know he functioned as an assassin because that's the only thing he could contribute late since his poke grows SIGNIFICANTLY weaker than everything else, since armor is more abundant and (a) tanks can soak it easilly the more the game drags and (b) adcs will just lifesteal it back in 2 hits at this point.

Xerath's poke is overbearing late, not Jayce's. Jayce pokes decently only in the mid-game.

Fisk1 votes

All I'm gonna say is there was a good reason he was a pick or ban at worlds last season. You can argue all you want but he was over bearing. He provided unanswerable AoE poke. The difference between him and other glass cannons is that A. He was both a poke and an assassin champ and B. Blood thirster changes and essence reaver (this is the really bad one) meant that he became tanky (blood thirster sheild) and he had infinite mana sustain which meant that his passive from muramana would be at close to 100% all the time making his burst unbearable.

Fed by Snu Snu1 votes

{quoted}

essence reaver (this is the really bad one)

Sorry, but I can't take anything you say seriously after this one.

If you build Essence reaver on Jayce you should feel bad.

In fact, make that "everyone".

Also, the bloodthirster change was actually a nerf to Jayce, because it was an important mid-game spike for him to have +100 AD instead of +80.

A shield means nothing for him. He WON'T survive getting caught either way. A jayce player will ALWAYS have to know when to go in or suffer the consequences.

Fisk1 votes

Regardless of builds, he deserved a nerf. He was played twice in the world finals and a bunch of times over the course of worlds. He was on the strong side and I would say fairly balanced at the moment.

Fed by Snu Snu1 votes

{quoted}

He was played twice in the world finals and a bunch of times over the course of worlds.

Oh wow, that many times?

Your argumentation is flawless indeed.

When should I be expecting those Corki nerfs then? You know, being played close to every game and all.

No, he didn't deserve a nerf. And the fact that everyone who played Jayce feels really uncomfortable picking him after the last nerf kinda shows.

Fisk1 votes

In the two games he wasn't picked he was banned.... The two best teams in the world saw a need to pick or ban him in every game...

Fed by Snu Snu1 votes

Two best teams saw a need to either pick or ban?

You don't seem to recall things properly then.

First 2 games, SSW picked him.

Other 2 games, RC banned him.

RC never saw a need to pick him, because they knew they couldn't use him properly. It's called targetted banning.

By the way, Maokai was also a pick or ban in those games. FOR BOTH TEAMS.

And so was Rengar. FOR BOTH TEAMS.

Jayce was only a pick for one team and a ban for the other.

I don't see you saying that Regnar is overbearing.

And you casually forget to bring up that Royal Club got stomped even without Jayce. Wanna know why? Because it's not Jayce that made the difference there, it was the sheer difference in skill, once again, yet another worlds.

Your argumentation is beyond childish and I should have stopped bothering many comments ago.

Fisk1 votes

Jayce was picked once by each team, seriously man go look at the games....... Get your facts right at least before you try to make someone look like an idiot. And Rengar was overbearing why would you say "I'm not talking about rengar" when this discussion isn't about rengar. The fact that he was picked or banned at all in the world finals probably means he was strong aside from the fact that he was strong all of worlds and was dominating high elo soloqueue. You can rage at jayce nerf all you want but most people would agree he was strong and needed the fairly minor nerf (they had an effect but the didn't ruin him at all). ALSO if the balance team who has been doing this sort of thing for years thought he was op along with basically everyone else, I hate to break it to you but HE WAS PROBABLY STRONG. Frankly you've been rude and stubborn about this discussion and I agree with a lot of the points you made in your original post but you need to calm the rage and take an honest look at the game. Also, Maokai and Rengar have BOTH seen nerfs since then. Still not sure why you're talking about them in a jayce discussion but they were strong also (hence the reason they were picked so much ALONG WITH JAYCE).

Fed by Snu Snu1 votes

{quoted}

and was dominating high elo soloqueue.

Ye, you are crazy. It's official.

You are the one who doesn't take an honest look at the game. You most likely just have a long lasting grudge against Jayce ever since his trully OP days of low cooldown poke or openly broken hammer form E on release.

Jayce was balanced and didn't require any nerfs. He has distinct weaknesses tied to him, most notable being forced to go full glass cannon and ying in the exact same time he can kill someone. If you can't understand that, then you are in no place to bring up "honesty".

Btw, Rengar didn't see any nerfs since then. His last nerfs were in 4.14, which was in August 2014. That was long before worlds. And for a good reason, because he doesn't deserve any nerfs either.

But according to you, he does. Because your logic is retarded.

I'm stubborn, because I'm right and disgusted at people like you promoting Riot's balance decisions.

I have the right to complain, because I never agreed with Riot's balance direction. The overall outcome over the years shows that I was RIGHT in doing so. On the other hand, that doesn't seem to be the case for people like you, who are so short sighted that they can't even understand what makes a pick strong or weak.

Now go complain about LeBlanc. She is being picked all the time in LCS, it must mean she needs a nerf to obscurity. That's all you are capable of doing anyway.

Edit: By the way, you were right in one thing. He was picked by Royal Club as well. I was mistaken there.

But guess what. ROYAL CLUB STILL LOST.

I think I'll trust my own judgement and the discussions I've had with my D1 and challenger friends more.

SmokingPuffin4 votes

Seems like a pretty fair summary of the history of balance problems.

AFK-ers and ragers have also vastly increased, which only increases the overall level of frustration of the community.

I'm pretty sure the opposite is true.

The quality of low and mid diamond has also VASTLY decreased, so the game in general has been deteriorating.

I can't say that I've noticed this. Obviously, it's subjective.

Kaisha2 votes

Completely agree. Season 3 wasn't perfect, but it was by far the best season. Season 5 is terrible, and all the changes smell of the standard Ghostcrawler stench. He's doing the same thing in LoL that destroyed WoW. This game won't last long with him at the helm.

Sammystorm2 votes

completely opinion. I hated season 3. It was really hard to play anything other then an assassin for most of season 3.

Partholonian3 votes

Also, Season 3 was the last season to have 4.5 people on a team. I'd never want to go back to that, regardless of the jungle changes or early game mana or any of the other big picture issues we have right now.

Fed by Snu Snu1 votes

Actually, this season is much worse in that regard. Pretty much everything functions close to being an assassin because there is no target apart from Maokai or Alistar who won't die in a matter of seconds.

ADCs currently do more damage with a single crit than a S3 assassin with a skill.

Sammystorm1 votes

You are correct that assassin's are very good still. However the biggest thing that changed for me was not who is viable but rather how I choose to adapt to it. I am better overall at the game then I use to be and can usually out play people playing fotm champs at my skill level because of commitment and time but into my champion of choice.

Fed by Snu Snu2 votes

This is getting close to arguments coming from confirmation bias, which I'd have to resort to ad hominems in order to deal with since you place yourself in the center of the discussion, thus I'll avoid going too deep on that because I prefer talking about LoL from an overall perspective.

Season 9 Amumu1 votes

its basically this. in other seasons there were always bad balance decisions but at this point its very blatantly noticeable in nearly every game. always a vi in nearly every game. usually either a zed or nidalee present. and to be honest it isnt so much that a certain pool of champions is strong as it is everyone else is weak, or rather, dont have the all around advantages to them that a select few have. i for one am not as mad about say lee sin who i think is actually relatively fine, but he doesn't really have a weakness or downside to his kit. or take for instance jarvan, ive played games where an enemy jarvan would build about 1 damage based item and then full tank and then still be able to do more damage then most of the other champions in said game.

Miku Lv9922 votes

I always felt like things were kinda unbalanced but it really feels like it's way moreso now. It's probably the worst balance the game has ever had.

DemiluniS4 votes

I would like to disagree. There are games where I don't even know what to ban because of how balanced it feels as opposed to 2 years ago when there was 4 must bans or else you'd lose the game. most of the supports are balanced, most of the ad carries are balanced, mid laners got some problems with the mages because of the mana, top is the most diverse than it ever was, jungle is slowly getting fixed, so I don't think it will take too long til new champions start to appear there too

test account17 votes

The forums always had their share of rage and QQ. There's been a bit of a shift for the worse, though I think it's mostly a matter of perception and the switch from forums to boards.

I think part of it is the way the new boards are set up, combined with a playerbase that is now much larger than it had been before. The voting system allows a vocal minority to push things to the top, and with the size of the playerbase that vocal group just happens to have enough votes to put things to the top. People who are more level headed are also generally less likely to downvote things -- we see this phenomena a lot on reddit, which these new boards are quite obviously based off of. It's referred to there as the circlejerk. You can guess why. The upvote/downvote system works on reddit because it's set up in such a way that if people strongly disagree with the more vocal proponents of a community they can break off to make their own. In some cases, the new community actually becomes more popular than the old one as a result. Since that's not an option here, and it seems like many people are still unfamiliar with how the voting system works we are all essentially stuck in the vocal-group's echo chamber.

Combined with that, it definitely feels like Rioters as a whole, with some few exceptions, have become quieter and less communicative here. I'm not sure if it's because so much vitriol is being pushed to the top and visibly "favored" by the playerbase and they're trying to avoid it, which is understandable, or if they're actually actively just less interested in communicating with us all. Back in the days of the forums, you could see Rioters posting more often and more frequently -- there were also more than just a few of them posting. That, combined with the fact that "upvotes" didn't strictly decide what was at the top in default view, definitely helped to calm people down and create more civil discourse.

I'd also like to add that Fed By Snu Snu makes a really good point, and you ought to read through his post, along with Eedat's (who is rapidly becoming one of my favorite posters here) response. As someone who was here in S1, and eventually left for a while because of how toxic the community was before returning once it got better, it definitely feels like nowadays we have less of a chance to influence the game meaningfully. Riot isn't some small indie company anymore, though, and we all maybe need to come to accept that. The removal of the tribunal has let the toxicity grow again, and as others have pointed out that's creating growing discontent. As Eedat pointed out, many of the recent patch changes feel very haphazard, even if you can clearly see what the goal behind them was, and that's definitely not helping.

Over all, however, I firmly believe it's the way the boards are set up and the quiet on the part of many rioters (which may or may not be a partial fault of the way the boards function). We had anger in the forums, but it always felt less apparent.

Direwolfiez12 votes

Nope, I don't remember it ever being this bad, and I started using Boards since before Riot got rid of the old forums. Sure, there were always QQ threads, but there were very few people openly insulting Riot. To be honest, I can't really blame a lot of the people, Riot is majorly fucking up what used to be a great game.

Kingsgrave6 votes

{quoted}

Nope, I don't remember it ever being this bad, and I started using Boards since before Riot got rid of the old forums. Sure, there were always QQ threads, but there were very few people openly insulting Riot. To be honest, I can't really blame a lot of the people, Riot is majorly fucking up what used to be a great game.

Dude I've used riot boards and forums since S2. Also used other forums for other games. It's always been this hateful and will always be that way.

ChargeItDownMid11 votes

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Deadly Mittens2 votes

Last I checked most complaints of overpowered were towards champs Zed and LeeSin who hadn't earned the title. 48-52% doesnt not make someone op. While champs who did rise up as ridiculously powerful Ahri Warwick and RekSai all got nerfed to a semi-balanced state without removing their viability.

The biggest reason imo for the rise in complaints is how much the balance team has talked about what a champ does in LCS when nerfing someone, in some cases just outright saying they don't think this champ is supposed to be LCS material, Gnar :( along with them decing to WRECK 3 champions in the same patch for some absurd reason.

Were they paranoid their Veigar rework would end up like Ryze and Mordekaiser ?

ChargeItDownMid3 votes

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Axests1 votes

except that fiora counters zed and beats him in lane, but yes the akali nerf to her E, the q passive proc on the e was her issue. Now her lane is a lot weaker and makes trading near impossible (unless of course you WANT to walk up and auto a champion in lane). Personally i've seen 0 lee sin bans in the past few months and have seen 0 lee sins. As someone who plays lee sin i feel he's strong like he's always been but in no way op. As for zed, a champion i've been playing more recently, he's 10 times weaker than he used to be, and i find myself losing lane to a lot of mids (leblanc,ahri mostly, but maybe i'm just not good as zed). Not to say that zed is bad, he's good, but the meta mid doesn't even surround assassins, it's moved more towards mages.

Circuit Bear8 votes

The boards have gotten worse over time due to more and more areas being hit. These will be as unbias as I can be and will be aimed at allowing you to form your own conclusions.

Example:

  • Original forums were closed so that "Riot would be more active on the new Boards which they prefer" We were all forced on this site, which is absurdly buggy, very mobile unfriendly and all around annoying, to learn that most communication is done on other channels. -What little communication Riot has had is often lack luster and lacks "closure". For example. In the Cass and Veigar reworks both were given by people who do the numbers as a hobby reasons why the reworks would feel and perform badly and were told "Well we are going live with it anyway and will look into it later". -Jungle mains have been forced more and more away from what a lot of jungle mains were used to. Tank junglers have been almost non existant for around two years now. It used to be Shyvana, tank junglers almost exclusively. Then Season 3 and tank junglers fell off hard. All previously solid junglers were almost unplayable in comparison. This was fine since you usually expect things to go in and out of style. What has occurred is we have seen Lee Sin have one of the highest play rates near consistently. Vi, Jarvan and a variety of assassins go in and out of style at any given point and most often tank junglers get massacred.(We have seen Sejuani a few times over the past two years). Essentially over time the jungle has moved farther and farther from what it used to be. And has become less enjoyable to play as a result of being near forced into a specific style. ANYTIME a tank jungler becomes near pick or ban they are nerfed into barely playable status in a week where as the forementioned characters go months(Skarner, Sejuani went through this). -Supports got "better" then got screwed in the same sense. Traditional supports are often one of Riots primary targets often being used with the excuse of being "unhealthy" for nerfing them where as high aggression supports who take over a lane and just kill you as soon as their engage tool comes off cooldown(Thresh, Leona, Blitz) are left at high play rates(20%+ each) and usually high win rates (Thresh is the only one below 52%, in comparison, Sona was at approx 53.5 54% win rate when nerfed. Blitz was sitting at around 54% last I checked and has been close to 5.3% for nearly 6 months). So Lulu has gotten pushed out of support due to nerfs in other lanes with almost no compensation. Sona is continually targeted along with Soraka for having heal. Janna, who counters the three most played characters is nerfed constantly for having a high win rate in an environment where she counters 80% of all played supports.(Since collectively Thresh, Blitz Leona are in an absurd amount of games). Essentially Riot has been telling most traditional supports they are unhealthy for the game and leaving the other three alone
  • Mages have been losing out to assassins more and more over the years with Ori and Xerath being the two staple immobile mages that have not left style (at least since Xerath's rework). Syndra became very popular then was nerfed to the point she is almost unheard of. To top it off, all mages were indirectly nerfed by the sweeping mana changes making Zed, who Riot essentially said was the most healthy(which by their definition means the most fun to play against) assassin in the game, extremely strong in the sense that he has a lot of valuable attributes though since so many people play him without getting his mechanics down, and everyone knows the matchup he gets a skewed win rate in ranked(this applies to Leona/Blitz Thresh as well, but anytime something is played frequently it means people get more experience with the matchup and that they are often played by people who don't practice as much as chars with low play rates and are mostly played by people who main that character.) -LCS has been very stagnant despite Riot's claims and a lot of what they say counters what is shown. For example, they speak of diversity when every season less characters are played "consistently". Thresh is in almost every game, same for lee, same for Zed. And so forth. Many of these characters we have seen since their release (Zed thresh) with only small breaks. The exception to this I think are adcs. They seem to move in and out of style fairly fast. but Top lane for example was nothing but Shyvana Mundo for something like an entire split. I want to say that was Season 4 Spring. This brings up a lot of questions on why Talon is considered so much less Healthy then Zed that he is never allowed to be played when he has a dramatic amount more counter play then Zed or LB.
  • Lore was retconned(The namesake of the game was removed leaving a giant disparity of what is going on or how any of the old characters are related, new characters haven't used the League in around a year and a half I guess if I remember right), then butchered(Three line bios). I am not into lore but its become a joke in my friend group which lead to pissing off the lore groups. Where as Dawngate did their lore in a amazing fashion that alone should have won them a ton of fans. Riot decided to cut funding except for videos as far as I can tell. Written lore is barely a few lines usually except on new characters.

A lot of this could be simplified to, the game was taken in a certain direction and almost never allowed to drift from it, except in certain regards that seem to make it more true.

On a side note. I do think Riot has been doing slightly better about fixing it. The changes coming up for tank junglers look promising and Sejuani at least feels decent to play now. So..... progress. Always room to improve mind you.

Just Riot usually doesn't let those changes stick very long in my experience. If we ever saw tank junglers become standard and assassins/bruisers fall to the back, we would probably only get that for two weeks is how usual status goes.

Best Darius KR6 votes

The title should be: "Has gameplay & balance always been this bad?"

ImHerVoice6 votes

Its 1,000 times worse than s2. I can promise you that.

67chrome5 votes

For anyone who's been here longer than me: did the season 5 changes create all this anger? Or were the boards always like this, and season 5 changes are just what its hot to be angry about right now?

The Forums/Boards have usually had a lot of anger. In pre-season 1 people posted because they were upset about something, now people post because they're upset about something.

The anger changes a bit from section to section, though in a category called "balance" you won't really find anyone complementing Riot on doing a good job. If you go into community creations or skins and champion concepts, you'll obviously get a lot less anger and a lot more "wow that's cool".

And I'd guess Riot's balance probably has very little to do with the anger. Most QQ and unbalance threads are posted by people that lost and want to find an excuse as to why they lost.

GnomeDigest4 votes

Combine that we have seen some of the worst balance changes Riot has every dished out with the fact that they no longer really engage the community in discussion in any meaningful way and you get a lot of anger on the boards.

All Riot does now when they come on the boards is to just sell players on the moves they have already decided they are going to make. So as players experience this and then see Riot come out with mindbogglingly dumb balance changes, yea, they get angry.

Sammystorm3 votes

The complaints are a lot more vocal. The old forum would bump a topic to the top of the page whenever it was posted it. Which meant that qq threads usually would be somewhere at the bottom because people would up vote then never read the thread again. The only exception we saw is around champ release dates where people would come out of the wood work to claim that x new champion was horrible or broken. However that qq would go away after a day or so. What would happen though is the creative and fun threads would always be the most visible because people would always be reading them and they would get huge and then more people would read them. We had a small group of posters that would consistently post things that would be at the top. An example of what I mean. People use to start sexy picture threads. Everyone would post picture of a champion and it would go on for sometimes hundreds of pages. However people were always coming back to post so it would be at the top of the page for a long time. The qq threads tended to get a lot of upvotes back then but only the particularly good ones were ever visible. So with the way boards work and the reason that most people are coming to boards make it so that primarily qq threads from game-play and balance are making it to the front page and everything else is buried in obscurity. So basically we went from only having sarcastic humorous threads to only having qq threads.

Arveanor3 votes

In my time lurking/posting here, the answer is a resounding yes.

To be fair, it goes in cycles, and at times it seems to ease up a bit, but by and large yes, it's all pretty vicious and angsty in here.

Bârd3 votes

Once, it was a peaceful land.

and then Patch 5.4 attacked.

cFlame2 votes

Its the fact that Riot isn't about strategic balance when its needed. They think if they settle the problems head-on then they are killing the champion and no one will play the champion. I'm sure all Veigar players could have settled for a weak stun with almost no delay compared to strong stun with the delay of Gragas getting off his ass.

AreYouReady2Die2 votes

Its existed since alpha hell i remember the good old days when teemo was the most op champ in the game with constant nerf screams... Its normal and will always happen

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