Stay Up To Date On Which Champions Need Your QQ!

Wobly··19 votes·2,533 views

Have you ever tried to impress your friends by QQ'ing about an OP champion, only to be embarrassed when they told you the champion had already been nerfed? Want to stay up to date on which champions you should be complaining about, but not have to do the boring work of actually reading patch notes? Well don't worry, Leaguepedia's got you covered!

With Leaguepedia you can sort champions by their pick, ban, and winrate in the LC$ and know instantly when a champion is worthy of your QQ!

For instance, many people are still busy complaining about Lee Sin, without even realizing they're still stuck on last year's OP. Lee Sin is only the 17th most picked or banned champion in NA this year, with a paltry 50% win rate (not to mention his solo Q winrate has been hovering around 45% for months). Sure he's still in the meta, but he's on his way down; do you really want to be complaining about a has been? In the meantime, Lissandra is clocking in at a 95% pick/ban rate with a 91.7% win rate, giving you the chance to get in on the ground floor of complaints about a new OP champion. With Leaguepedia, you'll never get caught again complaining about a champion who's going out of style when you could be complaining about the new hotness!

Seriously for a second though, the community often gets stuck on an impression of the meta, even after it's gone out of style. This board has got tons of Lee Sin and Zed QQ, even though those champions have been on the decline in the meta for a while now. I know that solo Q takes a while to catch up to the pro meta and to patch notes, but when we're arguing about balance, we should look at the current meta and think for ourselves, instead of fixating on a certain set of champs and letting the conventional wisdom think for us.

InB4 "stfu noob, Lee Sin still #1 OP"

EDIT: Enough people have read this thread and responded with "but Lee Sin and Zed are still OP" that I want to clarify the message of this thread. I'm not saying winrate is the best measure of balance, and if you honestly believe that Zed and Lee Sin are OP, that's cool. I think there's a real conversation to be had on that topic. As long as you are thinking for yourself about why those champions are overpowered, and making actual well-considered arguments about it, I'm 100% on board. I just want people to think for themselves, instead of mindlessly repeating that champions X, Y, and Zed are overpowered because that's what everyone else thinks.

20 Comments

vC48YNoGbJ10 votes

I was crying about last season champions like Yasuo being OP and even AZIR after this last patch being OP and begging for BAN PLZ. Little did I know his win rate plummetted to 38% the last two days. OOPSIES!!! Now I can QQ in a way that I can back up with statistics. Thanks, Leaguepedia!

MrBuffington7 votes

Most of the time I still ban last week's OP champions because I don't want my teammates picking them, lol

SecretAgentHulk2 votes

So true.

Junkο1 votes

That's the only reason i ban OP champions really, they almost always feed on my team.

BrutalCabbage2 votes

OP, sincerely, thank you.

ComeOnAndSlamJam1 votes

Where? All I see is some general info you could pickup from lolwiki.

Wobly4 votes

Here you go friend: http://lol.gamepedia.com/2015_NA_LCS_Spring/Scoreboards/Round_Robin/Overview

I didn't really make this thread to show people Leaguepedia though. The point is, this board and the League community have an issue with groupthink when it comes to discussing balance. It's not that the game doesn't have real balance issues, but our discussions about those problems are hampered by this groupthink. Because people don't think for themselves, we get the same conversations over and over about the same champions, even after a champion has been falling out of favor for a while. I just want people to think for themselves, and not get carried along by the conventional wisdom!

Shadow Gilgamesh1 votes

Or maybe win rates and ban/pick rates aren't indicative of if a champ is unhealthy or unbalanced. LB had a 43% win rate when they took her silence, Azir had a garbo pick rate when they lowered his soldiers attack range, but both of those changes were for the best. since the silence let LB just full combo with almost no chance of retaliation and Azirs soldiers are one of the strongest bullying mechanics in the game.

Wobly1 votes

You're right! Win rates are definitely not the only or even best way of measuring balance. This thread isn't really about which champs are or aren't OP right now, its more about the trend in the League community towards groupthink about balance. If you look at the data and look at what champions people are complaining about, its clear that people are influenced by a conventional wisdom about which champs are OP, and that the conventional wisdom is slow to adapt to changes in the meta. For instance, looking at the data suggests that Lee Sin has already been eclipsed by J4 and Vi, and is going to eclipsed by Nidalee too. But if you listen to who people are complaining about, only the people who are actually paying attention are talking about Lee Sin, Vi, and J4 together, but lots of people are still just complaining about Lee Sin. I think because he was so strong for so long, people don't notice it when the meta changes. I don't really want to argue about Lee Sin in particular, I just want people to think for themselves when they talk about balance!

Raptamei2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Shadow Gilgamesh,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=F18ZxJpQ,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-02-16T22:22:30.205+0000)

Or maybe win rates and ban/pick rates aren't indicative of if a champ is unhealthy or unbalanced. LB had a 43% win rate when they took her silence, Azir had a garbo pick rate when they lowered his soldiers attack range, but both of those changes were for the best. since the silence let LB just full combo with almost no chance of retaliation and Azirs soldiers are one of the strongest bullying mechanics in the game.

Pick rate and win rate in competitive play is the ONLY power level indicator that matters. It literally means how good the champion is.

Whether or not the champion is healthy is a completely separate discussion and does not justify nerfs or buffs, only reworks. Otherwise you get an Urgot/Zed situation where Riot intentionally makes the healthy champion better than the unhealthy one and people hate it.

Also, what happened with Leblanc was she was considered useless because 43% winrate but people hated playing against her. And then she was strategically picked in LCS to shut down a few early game dependent opponents. Suddenly everyone felt like their hatred was justified because she was picked in LCS and therefore automatically OP, so they started WHINING AND CRYING and claimed that winrate meant nothing. Riot was forced to nerf her because people clearly didn't care about her actual effectiveness at their level and weren't going to shut up until she was made less annoying to play against.

Lord Graves III2 votes

Whether or not the champion is healthy is a completely separate discussion and does not justify nerfs or buffs, only reworks.

What about when a spell is being oppressively powerful and riot reworks the spell to have lower damage and a longer cooldown? Every change is a rework. Its just all a matter of scale. Sometimes it is a simple numbers swap. Sometimes its a sion situation.

Riot was forced to nerf her because people clearly didn't care about her actual effectiveness at their level and weren't going to shut up until she was made less annoying to play against.

IF I may propose an alternate scenario. League of Legends is a big game with a ton of champions, and more than half of them need changes at any given moment. Leblanc was changed after LCS picks because her increased visibility caused whining, but she needed the changes anyway. It was just a matter of priorities.

SpongebobIsLife1 votes

you have to admit that though. she is extremely aggravating to play against. teehee.

KaisadiIIa1 votes

Lissandra is clocking in at a 95% pick/ban rate with a 91.7% win rate

Lissandra: Pick rate: 12.24% Win rate: 50.56% Ban rate: 32.95%

Source: LoLKing.

Tip: If you are gonna criticize something, do it with true facts. Otherwise I can tell you it's fair we complain about Lee Sin because he has 107% win rate.

This are the champions with the highest win rate currently in this game: Katarina: 55.04% Malzahar: 54.86% Heimerdinger: 54.28% Vi: 53.63% Swain: 53.36%.

You know why almost every "considered-OP-champion" has low win rates? Precisely because people know they are OP and so they play them without knowing what they are doing, having horrible games and losing them. The fact Zed is überly OP doesn't mean you can insta-win with him without previous experience. Meanwhile champions that nobody plays like Malzahar or Swain have high winrates because they are most likely to be played only by people who main them and have true skill with them. Even if Zed is abusive as hell while Malzahar isn't, a Malzahar main is still likely to win a casual Zed.

Just try this: keep a copy of the current win rate of all champions and compare it with the win rate they'll have in July or September: you'll see that new FotM will have lower win rates than now even if they haven't been changed.

Tannhäuser Gate4 votes

His stats are from LC$ games not solo q

Wobly4 votes

^

What this guy said.

To address your other point though, my thread really isn't about which champs are or aren't OP right now, but I respect that you've formed your own opinion about the relationship between champ power and winrate. Way to think for yourself! If you want to argue that Lee Sin and Zed are OP, more power to you, I'm just glad you're actually thinking through the reasoning of your arguments.

KaisadiIIa1 votes

Oops! Either way I think LCS stats are very situational (Zed for example has 6/0 and Rumble 6/1). I guess Lissandra's stats will tone down with time, it is impossible that a champion that has been the same for two years were capable of continually maintaining 90% win rate without no one noticing it. Also Lissandra has 56% win rate in EU. And champions like Thresh or Gnar which are considered top tier have ~27% win ratio. (I don't mention LeBlanc since I fail to see how she's supposed to be OP when she's literally useless in teamfights).

ForgiveColour1 votes

lol what are you trying to tell boards that energy champion are not the only op out there? NO WAY!!1\121@ Mana champions are balanced kappa

TTUPhoenix1 votes

Upvote for best advertising. Urgot/10 would buy

Civil Dawn1 votes

Nidalee 100%

Zed 100%

Jinx 100%

Jax 100%

lol damn

windwolf7771 votes

I got nothing to say except thank you OP. (Mostly posting to save)

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