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Grievous Wounds Madness

Shiznyte··19 votes·1,322 views

item 3076 Gives GW for Tanks/Bruisers costs 1000 Gold (no matter the Targets HP)

item 3123 Gives GW for ADC's/AD Assassins costs 800 Gold (no matter the Targets HP)

item 3165 Gives GW for Mages, only after the target hits a 35% HP threshold, costs 2900 Gold

This is pretty poor balancing IMO why to mages get the short end of the stick with GW compared to everyone else? They fight Vladimir , Swain and they love to Roam bot to kill Supports like Soraka so why is it they need to spend 1900-2100 more gold to get a GW passive compared to everyone else? Can someone please explain this to me, preferably a Dev? Also could we possibly get a mage component item implemented that gives GW regardless of the targets current HP?

Conclusion : I would like a new component introduced into the game that costs 800-1000 gold and would build into item 3135 (Feel free to remove the item 1026 from the item build path and replace it with the new item). This would allow AP champions to get the GW if they need it early on, sit on the item and still build into an item that is core for almost all mages!

57 Comments

The Yetii Rider10 votes

Missing information:

item 3165 - GW lasts 8 seconds. item 3076 - Lasts 1 second item 3123 - Lasts 3 seconds

item 3165 - Attached to an extremely efficient item that almost every mage would rush anyway because it gives 20% CDR and 100 AP item 3123 - Directly competes with Lord Dominik's Regard item 3076 - Builds into a very poor late game item that has tiny stats compared to other durability items.

item 3165 - Used by champions who can apply it to the entire enemy team with one spell. item 3123 - Used by champions who need to stay far back and would be lucky to apply the effect to three champions if they buy a different item and are close enough to each of those three champions when they auto. item 3076 - Generally applies to one champion, requires you to be in melee combat with that champion.

Shiznyte3 votes

good stuff right here! but not everyone rushes morellos, certain mages like TwistedFate Ryze Viktor Kassadin Karthus kinda get the short end of the stick.

The Yetii Rider1 votes

Kassadin is an assassin.

I personally consider TwistedFate to be an assassin as well, because of his ultimate.

Shiznyte2 votes

Assassin's can use GW too though! they are AP damage threats that tend to not rush Morello's, but might want the GW passive to do their job effectively. This is why i proposed to have it Be a new component that builds into Void staff, something almost every AP champion will build eventually!

Edit: i may copy some of your first post and put in on the original post if that's cool? you made some good points

The Yetii Rider2 votes

I suppose that's true, but assassins already have access to Grievous Wounds because of summoner 14 . It's a less pressing issue for them.

Sure, you can copy some of my stuff and put it there. Just make sure you name me as the source.

Shiznyte1 votes

I don't see many kassadin's with Ignite personally, I see a lot with TP because Kass is pretty weak early on in most match ups. TF i see sometimes with ignite, but he's not really known for his lane dominance either, he kinda just wins other lanes!

Salron8 votes

The GW on morellos also last a disgusting 8 SECONDS

Who is Taliyah1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Face The Win,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=p5vkeEF6,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-11-03T17:05:43.590+0000)

The GW on morellos also last a disgusting 8 SECONDS

mages can't autoattack the enemy every other second to re-apply the effect.

The Yetii Rider3 votes

The duration of Morellonomicon is extremely noticeable on Howling Abyss. You get hit by a bunch of attacks and fall back to regroup, then you actually have to stand around near the health pot without picking it up until the 8 seconds wears off. If you have Warmog's Armor, it kicks in before the 8 seconds wears off and you get half healing for a full 3 seconds.

People only think of Morellonomicon in terms of big team fights that end only when everyone dies, but it shines in minor skirmishes around dragon pit that can last up to 30 seconds without a single death.

AlienPrimate7 votes

I would like GW removed from red book. It is so overtuned with everything that no one actually cares about the GW anyways. They should remove GW from it and add a new 800-1k gold item that applies GW with spell damage and gives a small amount of AP. Passively giving GW to every mage in the game who uses mana and not providing a cheap alternative for tough matches is stupid.

Shiznyte1 votes

This is a good idea! i personally would love to have it as a new component on Void Staff. make it cost like 900G and maybe remove the blasting wand from the Void

Thryale2 votes

not to mention getting GW from morello's is infuriating due to it lasting 8 full seconds

Shiznyte1 votes

Duration isn't really a big deal, we had a discussion about it already in the post. It would be more beneficial if it just happened at all %'s but maybe lasted 1-3 seconds like the other items.

Thryale4 votes

honestly, I think there is too much GW in league atm. it needs to be more of a niche stat that you get specifically to counter a problematic matchup, not a hyper abundant stat you see in every game.

Shiznyte2 votes

Every hero should have the option to build GW in my opinion. It's only good vs certain hero's and without it the healers / Sustain Tanks are extremely good. This post is just to identify the fact that while everyone in the game can get GW, mages have to dump much more gold into achieving the GW and in comparison to everyone else, it seems wrong!

Thryale4 votes

and here, I disagree. I honestly think riot needs to just straight up remove GW (like they said they wanted to years ago) and just do a balance pass on all healing instead. getting healed while GW is active feels BAD. It's frustrating, and only serves to make barriers more powerful and favored for defensive play making.

You don't see ppl crying about getting 1k shields(from multiple champs) but if a champ gets a 400 hp heal, ppl hate it.

The real issue with healing is, like riot has said many times before, is that it worst when it's done out of combat, in the lulls between skirmishes as it just erases the previous efforts. And it's during this period of time that GW is not able to affect anyway.

Honestly, for the next preseason, I'd like riot to just remove GW entirely and completely rebalance the game around it.

Shiznyte3 votes

Totally allowed to disagree dude its cool, I have also brought up the Issue in a prior post about Shields needed some sort of GW for them or maybe an item that does bonus damage to shielded targets, because i agree shield stacking is also a huge problem!

Flawless Fetus1 votes

With the exception of morellos, it is fairly niche. Executioners calling directly competes with Lord Dominique's, and LD is more damage. The only reason anyone buys ec is if the game called for it - pretty niche. Same for bramble. thorn isn't that hot if an item, but if you're a tank/fighter who needs grievous, that's the item to fulfill the niche. Morellos, on the other hand, is bought by nearly every mana using mage, and half of the non-mana mages - regardless of whether they need grievous wounds or not. Lol.

Spoofghoul1 votes

item 3033 has been passively giving GW to ADC's (melee and ranged) since it's release

it has the same problem

tanks are truly getting the short end of the stick when you think about it

item 3075 aint very useful vs Swain or DrMundo or Soraka

AlienPrimate1 votes

At least they have to make an actual decision between more damage and GW. With mages, they just buy an item that gives them all the mana they need, 20% CDR, a large sum of AP, and then the GW is just tacked on top for no reason as an added bonus. There is no reason to have GW on Morellonomicon other than that is the only source of it for mages. This is why a new alternative for GW needs to be added. One that only provides AP and GW so if you are getting that item as a mage, it is specifically to counter healing and not to supply yourself with AP, CDR, and mana all at the same time.

Spoofghoul1 votes

oh yea for sure item 3165 has been totally broken but so is item 3033

i mean item 3075 makes sense although it's a bit weak right now

but i think choosing between damage and utility would be the way to go for APC and ADC You can argue about mortal reminder giving such a choice but at it's core it is still a damage item and it can take away a large amount of gold value from the enemy's build with it's armorpen so there is that to consider

would make more sense to just put GW on separate items so you truly have to choose

As a tank you choose between health armor and mr and only the armor option gives anti healing and a weak effect at 1 second and even within the armor options you can go for different stuff which might be more useful

as an adc or apc you get item 3033 item 3165 anyway because they are so super effective even without the grievous wounds

MysterQ6 votes

As a tank, I want GW on an antiAP item. My Brambleback is useless vs a mage like Vlad. And I can't trust my team to build GW, so what do I build an Executioners just for that.

Shiznyte1 votes

This is also acceptable! and a very good point dude! currently your best bet vs vlad on a tank would be item 3123 because he doesnt have to AA you. Also Mages could build the AntiAP item similar to like Abyssal Mask

Used To Main Zed5 votes

Morello's is an item that the majority of mages build as their first core items. Yes, there are exceptions to this rule.... but a 2900 gold item that gives 20% CDR, 100AP, infinite mana for only 900gold, AND grievous wounds? AD champs have nothing like this. They must choose between building item 3036 or item 3033 which can severely gimp their damage in certain situations. Assassins that want to build lethality have little use for a last whisper item, meaning their only choice for grievous wounds is summoner 14. Mages can choose ignite, or simply build Morello's which they're going to do regardless of how much healing is in game.

My personal belief is that item 3165 should be changed to either a purely mana-focused item OR a grievous wounds item, but not both. You can tack grievous wounds onto item 3135 and give it 2 build paths, much like Last Whisper items for AD champs. This forces Mages to choose mana over grievous wounds so they don't have everything they need in a single item, but it would also allow them to build grievous wounds earlier than waiting for 2900 gold if they so choose.

Basically all this does is make itemization more situation-based (as it should be) rather than "this is my core item giving me everything I want but I don't get my 3 item's worth of stats in a single item fast enough lolz poor me"

Shiznyte1 votes

yes, yes, and yes! this idea is something i like! Morrellos is extremely good, maybe too good so i don't feel like i want to change its cost or components i just want GW on something more accessible for the games i need it!

Milodic Mellodi4 votes

To me, I think Morellonomicon is an item that forgot the role it's supposed to play. Its stats and cost are meant for Late Game, but its passive is clearly Early Game. Maybe if there was a less costly version of this with the same or more percentage (like 50%), and then a less costly stipulation for this item (like 80%). Lol I don't even build it anymore, there are so many better items that are better than this for both Early and Late Game. I don't even consider buying this item at all, that's...kinda sad. Especially since whenever I visit OP.GG I never see it as a recommended build against anyone.

Shiznyte2 votes

I agree, I almost never build it for the GW even though it is there. I build it for the item 3802 because it is such a good item, and its High AP when i complete the final item... the CDR is also nice! only specific champions like Syndra do i find myself regularly building it first!

Funkin Dunkin3 votes

I think the funnier part is, what mage isn't capable of killing a target who is < 35% health?

Shiznyte2 votes

lol this is so true! ^^ @Funkin Dunkin

Salron2 votes

A tank at 35% still takes a while for a single mage to kill

Shiznyte1 votes

Tanks aren't the ones life stealing up to full HP, ADC / Melee Carries are though. But i do agree Tanks can be difficult to kill and low HP especially Poppy with her silly passive of "if i get low enough i get a shit ton of free stats"

Ars3lyn3 votes

ya, tanks are supposed to be hard to kill...I think what you guys are saying is the bruiser champions like Xin, Fiora and such

Shiznyte1 votes

you're right on the money dude!

Ars3lyn2 votes

But I think that when they thought about this item is because of the low CD for champions like ekko and such, those AP champions that does something with their AA, now since you dont need to use an ability to get the GW, it ANY MAGIC DAMAGE from the source that gives GW, it states it on the item, so champions like kayle, fizz, ekko ect can build this and it will affect their AA. hell even these items right here can do it item 3144 item 3153 item 3068 item 3751 item 3146 item 3115 item 3145 item 2015 item 3087 item 3094 item 3151 item 3091 item 3092 item 3098 item 3303. So atm the moment to my thoughts it is where it is, though I do understand your concern, but if they do that then they might need to reduce the amount of mana refund the item gains. Not saying it super OP but hard to fight against

Shiznyte1 votes

Fizz already has GW in his kit I thought, so Does Kat if im not mistaken. AP Champions IMO deserve a way to decrease healing even if they made it like a 30% heal reduction until you completed a full item that would be nice!

Ars3lyn1 votes

no fizz don't, and you know why Kat has it, so she doesn't have to build that item since she doesn't need the cdr nor the mana. I think that item is just fine, however, they do need to look over at what item they need to tip the scales as a mage, meaning they do need to rework some of the ap items

Shiznyte1 votes

my bad you're right that was old fizz before rework who had it on his seastone trident!

Toru Itai1 votes

GW should be reduced to 20%, and be triply effective against lifesteal.

Critmaster Garen3 votes

on the other hand, gw on item 3076 - 1 seconds

gw on item 3165 - 8 god fucking seconds.

Shiznyte1 votes

item 3076 Applies everytime they hit you - Costs 1000 gold

item 3165 Applies only after the target gets below 35% hp - Costs 2900 gold

the duration doesn't justify how much gold you have to spend, and the HP threshold in order to get the debuff IMO

Critmaster Garen5 votes

{quoted}

item 3076 Applies everytime they hit you - Costs 1000 gold

item 3165 Applies only after the target gets below 35% hp - Costs 2900 gold

the duration doesn't justify how much gold you have to spend, and the HP threshold in order to get the debuff IMO

youre not paying 2900 gold for the grievous wounds. youre paying it for the stats which makes the comparison dumb in the first place. and morellos fits into any mage build while its being cheap for what it does. the grievous wounds apply to everyone you hit with your spells.

the duration on morellos grievous wounds is long enough to last until your spell roitation is off cooldown. this means you can permanently apply the debuff to one or multiple opponents with your poke. which makes it hard to get back above the 35% health threshold once youve been taken low.

bramble vest is a nieche item against auto attacking champions and only affects a certain subset of enemies who are directly auto attacking you. all they have to do to get rid of the debuff is to switch target for a second. its upgrade is also without a doubt complete and utter garbage at its job, which makes bramble an early game item to be sold later.

Shiznyte1 votes

Vs champions like Vladimir and Swain mid lane you are absolutely building it for the GW passive... if you get someone down to 35% on a mage chances are you don't need 8 seconds of GW because they will likely die before the 8 seconds. My proposal was for a 900-1000 gold Component that gives Mages a way to Proc GW on targets preferably with no HP threshold, but i would settle for a 50-60%. GW is very situational I can agree to that, but the fact mages have to spend so much more to get it when they need it doesn't seem very fair for them!

Critmaster Garen5 votes

{quoted}

Vs champions like Vladimir and Swain mid lane you are absolutely building it for the GW passive...

EVERYBODY builds morellonomicon anyways, because it also grants 20% cdr, a shitload of mana, and 100 ap. stat wise, its everything a mage wants.

the fact that there is grievous wounds tacked on the item is almost irrelevant. people are building the item no matter if theyre facing sustain matchups or not.

the item itself is THAT good. bramble vest is only bought into specific matchups and its not even good into lategame, since there is no point in upgrading it into thornmail.

really, if there is one item mage mains shouldnt complain about, its morellonomicon.

Shiznyte1 votes

I can think of a few champions that don't build it, but would vs the match ups they need it vs TwistedFate Ryze Diana would all be good examples. the GW is more important than you maybe giving it credit for vs the sustain champions previously listed or if you wanted to roam bottom vs champions like Sona Soraka . I agree morellos is already a great item, thats why i feel like the component should be added on to an item like item 3135 to keep up the theme like with the item 3033 . a 900 gold component wouldn't set you to far back, would turn into an item almost all mages need, and would give you the GW passive early on if you needed it!

Critmaster Garen3 votes

{quoted}

I can think of a few champions that don't build it, but would vs the match ups they need it vs TwistedFate Ryze Diana would all be good examples. the GW is more important than you maybe giving it credit for vs the sustain champions previously listed or if you wanted to roam bottom vs champions like Sona Soraka . I agree morellos is already a great item, thats why i feel like the component should be added on to an item like item 3135 to keep up the theme like with the item 3033 . a 900 gold component wouldn't set you to far back, would turn into an item almost all mages need, and would give you the GW passive early on if you needed it!

tf would 100% build that shit. diana and ryze are exceptions. not the norm.

GripaAviara1 votes

GW should not apply with spell damage. That's why the item is this way conceived, you apply your ap nukes and to give to for your next strike.

But there should be an AP item that apply grievous wounds on auto attacks

Shiznyte1 votes

you make some good points!

Ars3lyn1 votes

so giving kayle another item to be op with?

Shiznyte2 votes

Kayle is the least on my concerns haha no offense to her, she's not very popular. Mage's deserve a way to stop healing that doesn't cost 2900 gold that's my main concern

DemainaNyx2 votes

item 3123

You said it yourself, it's only 800 gold. Unless your mage just doesn't auto attack for some reason.

And, "it doesn't build into anything I want" isn't a reason to not build it because I see mages build item 3140 despite it not building into anything they need when they're vs Malz/Warwick.

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