Is it only me or does shaco feel not so amazing after the rework (Assasin). I understand that he is an assasin but i feel Like he has nowhere near the power of other assasins in my opinion... and then he also got nerfed ap. so I legit have no idea what my main even is anymore 200k mastery feels for nothing
Trash MammaI2 votesYou late bro, any Shaco player knows they straight up ruined him
Ben Sharpio1 votesiDK man ive watched pinkwards stream and he plays both AD and AP and he is fucking incredible with that champion
alfavhunter3 votes[{quoted}](name=l Sion Bot l,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oYBUIynE,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-01-10T22:08:17.775+0000)
iDK man ive watched pinkwards stream and he plays both AD and AP and he is fucking incredible with that champion
shaco is only strong due to over tuned items like 
and 
i play support shaco and when i get proto belt i go from dealing 1/8 the adc hp in damage with my como to 1/4 just with a properly used proto belt it shows. its not shaco its the items that are strong
shaco himself has horrable scaling and is easily countered by 
and 
take ANY popular shaco build and put it on another champion and it will be more effective
his scaling is crap, his passive is laughable, his E is trash unless the target is already low, and his R is extremely unresponsive at the BEST of times. i have trouble getting his clone to walk into a bush... and its not from lock of commanding it to, it walks to the bush then stops and turns around going back to shaco...
Q damage is laughable even on a backstack unless he is running with AP and a litch bane
sure the rework increased his sustain damage slightly, by like 5-10%, but his burst? 30-40% down late game. he didn't get tankier, he became less mobile, he became more easily countered because now 'pink wards' not only reveal his traps, but DISABLE them, let alone red trinket
he cant stack boxes now (clever placement can help get around this but still) sure boxes last longer but the only way htis change to boxes would have been a net plus?
let him hold more than 1 box at a time example shaco can hold up to 1/2/3/4 boxes at a time with a 6/5/4/3 second CD after placing one and a (current CD) recharge time, number of boxes he can hold at once and CD of placement is determent by R rank
bamb he is now better without more burst, instead more sustain dps (which was the reworks apparent goal) and more utility
problem is the shaco rework came out the same time the control wards were coming into play, and this HURT him a lot as it gave more options to counter him for both ranged and melee
add in box crappy hp pools for late game and he falls hard
another thing they could do (since his passive favors CDR) is let his boxes gain total hp by 10 per 1% CDR, so his boxes can actually survive some aoe late game, cant tell you how many times ive had a champ with aoe in their kit kill boxes without even realizing it due to mobile aoe damage abilities like riven, malfite ult, heck ult, exc.
Leo10241 votesStill at a 54% winrate with a 6% playrate, yep, sooooo weak, even after multiple nerfs he's highest winrate jungler but he's weak
alfavhunter3 votesStill at a 54% winrate with a 6% playrate, yep, sooooo weak, even after multiple nerfs he's highest winrate jungler but he's weak
his winrate is from on use items being the only way to make him work.
try making a build that doesnt have 1 of the hex items in it.
you will feel like a waste of space
even as a support shaco i tell my carry i wont be aggressive unless they walk into a box cluster or i have mt proto belt. curently shaco cant even 1 shot a minion without on on use item or a hit modifier like litch bane (and he usually needs backstab to do it as well)
shaco can wave clear... if he buys items for it
he has no sustain in his kite, conditional CC, almost no poke and his damage comes from the enemy making mistakes
watch pink ward videos
how does he kill people? he tricks them into walking into a cluster of boxes, not 1 box, but 3+ which takes premeditation of ~30-45 seconds for placing those boxes
the problem is it takes so long to prep those boxes, yet they can be countered by a FREE item. they need to ether put some strength into shaco elsewhere or make it less countering by letting shaco 'hold' boxes so while it will still take time to get the CDs of boxes he doesn't have to place them all as their off CD to set the trap
shaco is winning well because people don't buy the free item counter as often as they should
IA9hRfpP5q1 votes@ChickenWrap
TheOneRealScaley1 votesi wish winrate actually mattered in "how strong a champ is" for anyone who wants to argue that remember old poppy (biggest dong in the game if played well) but lets compare him to other ad assassins shaco 2shiv PHYSICAL DAMAGE: 50 / 75 / 100 / 125 / 150 (+ 60 / 75 / 90 / 105 / 120% bonus AD) (+ 75% AP) single target slow and HITS more vs low hp Eve Ravage PHYSICAL DAMAGE PER SLASH:» 35 / 55 / 75 / 95 / 115 (+ 50% bonus AD) (+ 50% AP) single target plus on-hits kayne Blade's Reach 80 / 125 / 170 / 215 / 260 (+ 120% bonus AD) AoE and can have cc kha'zix Taste thier fear, increased by 65% against isolated targets.PHYSICAL DAMAGE:»60 / 85 / 110 / 135 / 160 (+ 110% bonus AD) single target Rango Savagery PHYSICAL DAMAGE PER STRIKE: 25 / 45 / 65 / 85 / 105 (+ 20 / 30 / 40 / 50 / 60% bonus AD) Savagery 2 small area but still AoE EMPOWERED ACTIVE: Savagery's total physical damage is increased to 120 - 392 (based on level) Zed Razor Shuriken 70 / 105 / 140 / 175 / 210 (+ 90% bonus AD)Additional shurikens hitting the same enemy only deal 75% damage. ADDITIONAL DAMAGE: 52.5 / 78.75 / 105 / 131.25 / 157.5 (+ 67.5% bonus AD) some dampening but can still hit more than 1 enemy talon (oh boy) Noxian Diplomacy PHYSICAL DAMAGE: 60 / 85 / 110 / 135 / 160 (+ 110% bonus AD) MELEE: (150 + bonus critical strike damage)MINIMUM ENHANCED DAMAGE: 90 / 127.5 / 165 / 202.5 / 240 (+ 165% bonus AD) but wait derz moar Rake PHYSICAL DAMAGE: 50 / 60 / 70 / 80 / 90 (+ 40% bonus AD) RETURN PHYSICAL DAMAGE: 60 / 90 / 120 / 150 / 180 (+ 60% bonus AD) my point is they either get more base damage, some other effect to get more damage or has an insanely low cooldown, yeah it may seam shaco has great scaling on the ability but hes not rewarded with as much power from building lots of ad. ive likely missed other assassins to be included and anyone can chime in to help. i feel whats meant to be strong and used to be worth it is now his weakest ability, its mostly been used as an exrta proc for thunderlords or the slow. give it something else to make it meaningful, more base damage OR (not also) a lower CD or for name sake TWO shiv like a rumble harpoon maybe even a bleed when used behind the target a bit of return from his old passive, or for god sake let it consume his passive and crit too [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]
