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Zyra no longer viable in mid lane

Hoosakiwi··111 votes·11,969 views

The recent change to the plant ai has taken zyra completely out of mid lane. She is no longer viable as an apc.

It's extremely frustrating that Riot has done this since in the mage update, they promised that they would always balance her with mid lane in mind since the majority of zyra mains like playing her mid. Unfortunately, this latest change has absolutely crushed her mid lane presence. She's being balanced as if she is a support only champion.

This is a slap in the face to zyra mains who were told by Riot that they would respect her mid mage origins.


Edit: This blew up a little bit, so I want to expand on the problems. Some people are saying "just land your skills and it's no problem," but it's clear they don't play Zyra much.

Here's the problem with that logic -- During the rework, Riot specifically made it so that she gets the most damage out of procing multiple seeds at once, but she has no control over where her passive seeds spawn. So you can either proc the w seeds you put down and hit a champion, or you can hit the highest concentration of seeds, but they won't hit your enemy.

The other major issue here is that she is a zone mage with a slow aa missile speed. If she misses a skillshot, she's now required to throw a slow aa at the enemy champ to get her plants to attack them. Meanwhile, the enemy champion can start advancing on her, knowing that her primary source of damage won't do shit to them and that she has LONG cds to boot.

146 Comments

LankPants47 votes

I'll keep saying it, Riot needs to pull power out of Zyra's bases and give her actual ratios. A mage needing 760 AP to double the damage on their main damage ability is always going to end with a champ who can utterly ignore AP. In this case it means Zyra goes support and never buys over 200 AP.

Elikain5 votes

Lulu was never meant to be a mid laner. She was a support and once a champion's secondary role becomes their primary, is the time when you know there's something fishy going on. Riot didn't have a problem that Lulu found her way to mid but Lulu was doing way too much on mid, considering that all of her utility she could have used on herself and clear waves without a problem + harass. Ganking a Lulu was pretty much next to impossible and you'd have to commit a lot of resources for that kill.

Hawkefire6 votes

Last I checked Lulu was always meant to be a support champion and her going mid was unintended. This is fairly different from Zyra which was released as a mid champion and then taken down bot lane because she was an incredibly effective support.

Sraeg201333 votes

Ironically this should've been the first change after MYMU to make her mid lane FAIR.

You know, her plants' AI is suppose to attack champion only if:

  1. They are the closest target.
  2. They were recently affected by Zyra's spells or basic attacks.

The fact they were always auto-aiming champions in range, made her completely noninteractive in lane. Not even Azir at his prime and Lux would be able to bully her, and they are the most cancerous lane bullies.

RainbowIcee1 votes

{quoted}

Ironically this should've been the first change after MYMU to make her mid lane FAIR.

You know, her plants' AI is suppose to attack champion only if:

  1. They are the closest target.
  2. They were recently affected by Zyra's spells or basic attacks.

The fact they were always auto-aiming champions in range, made her completely noninteractive in lane. Not even Azir at his prime and Lux would be able to bully her, and they are the most cancerous lane bullies.

Anivia Ok :(

Sraeg20138 votes

Anivia's range is effectively half of what Lux and Azir have. Not to mention she can't do shit pre-6, unless you are a potato.

YuGiHo26 votes

Karma Says hi. welcome to the club. Malzahar might be with us soon so at least our club isn't small...

Flemman4 votes

item 3070 Morgana item 3070

SweedishGunner7 votes

She is great midlane...

Votable Jester8 votes

Well I may not say great, but she's definitely good.

Noxious Blastt2 votes

Karma was désigned as a support .

IxtaliKing17 votes

She was designed as both a mage and support. Solo and duo lanes were always intended for Karma, it says on her original champ spotlight.

resumed5 votes

i would take those with a grain of salt they also tell you how to play lulu and zed jungle in theirs

IxtaliKing3 votes

Lol I remember the 1st time I played Zed I took him in jungle because his champ spotlight said he could... I learned the hard way. In Karma's case she was "originally envisioned" as a support, and designed to play both solo and duo lanes. She's been pretty consistent with where she's been played since then, she's just had the fun sucked out of her kit by the support role.

IxtaliKing21 votes

How many mages does the support role need to ruin before Riot addresses the role itself?

Hinagiku332 votes

I would say that would only happen if Marksmen were being taken as supports, but MissFortune Ashe ...

Linna Excel13 votes

Dear Rito, Zyra was originally a mid and people still like playing her there. Please keep her mid viable.

rafflesz11 votes

So wont this effectively completely gut her ability to zone...which is like her entire theme?

Maybe I'm just lowly plat trash, but the way I play teamfights and lane really with zyra is to stay as far back as possible and poke because if I position even slighty forward and get hit by anything i will die.

The sona meme comes to mind but at least at six sona does have an aoe stun. Zyra has a knockup that takes a month and half to proc.

Also say a teamfight is happening with some super mobile enemies, say graves/fiora or something and I run and spawn plants with ryali in the attempt to slow them and get away from their .9 second gap closer...will the plants just troll me and do nothing while they one shot me?

ModAcademy Kayn2 votes

Zoning's fine, like when it's out of lane and teamfights are threateningly close. But zoning in lane by just Q'ing plants doesn't lend itself many favors.

chipndip12 votes

Honestly, if Sona has to deal with CONSTANTLY having to dip near enemies to fight, Zyra can spare one AA assuming her spell missed, especially since Zyra has a snare in a basic ability.

Hoosakiwi3 votes

You are thinking about this from a support perspective. This change is fine for support zyra and makes sense...but it has destroyed her mid-lane. Riot promised zyra mains that they would balance her with mid in mind, but this latest nerf was done solely with her support role in mind. As a result, she's been pushed out of mid lane and pigeon-holed in to support.

PopCorn Chick3n11 votes

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE RIOT, give Zyra her old Q back please. It's been a year, and I still feel super unsatisfied using that rectangular shape. I promise that if you give her old CIRCULAR Q shape back, she will be a bit better in mid lane. Rectangular shape = shorter range, harder to hit, and unsatisfied to use. Just why are you changing it? to summon multiple plants out and kill enemies right and not intent to land it right? So please revert it back to circular shape if you want Zyra to hit her spell and also feel more rewarding as a zoning mage.

chipndip15 votes

Zyra's passive makes more plants, so her Q is remodeled to hit more plants.

Like, I don't get people...honestly...

GrReaper965 votes

The problem is now Zyras Q is now much harder to hit and 80% of the time you use it solely for the purpose of summoning plants. Back then you actually had to aim your Q to hit the enemy champion and plan your seeds well. Now its "ooh my passive made a seed 300 units away from the enemy. Better Q the seed instead of him"

chipndip12 votes

She's designed to play into her plants by staying in a general area, passively making a ton of seeds, and then punishing people that get near those seeds. She isn't someone that goes well out of her way to pummel people unless she's fed. Rather, she sets up a "garden" and unleashes it when enemies enter it.

To do this effectively, they reduced the damage on her spells while increasing possible damage by increasing the number of plants she'll have on the field at one time. Play into her passive and you bank reward. Don't and you don't. Only difference is that you need to hit the champs you want to be attacked by the plants for your cast to triple down on someone, rather than just doing 1/2 the work for you. The logic in the design is very much there. People just want to complain.

GrReaper965 votes

You probably never played pre-rework Zyra havent you? Still the same, expect she had less seeds and had to actually LAND her skills to do any real damage. Right now Zyra is pretty much a brain dead champion where you plan seeds and let the AI do the work for you. It is neither healthy nor takes much skills. But of course if its brain dead champions thats suit you, then i guess i cant complain

chipndip12 votes

This is exactly why they changed the plant AI though: If you miss your skill, your plant doesn't prioritize your target.

Pre-rework Zyra had a ton of issues concerning her plant AI to the point where the plants were just random filler to her standard burst. Riot wanted Zyra to be more about using her plants well and less about just hitting people with skill shots. Any champion can just hit someone with a skill shot, and that's fine because it promotes player skill, but variety becomes appreciable when there's a meaningful difference in game play from one champ to another.

SOLOQSUPERHERO3 votes

I think the issue is when they reworked her passive, they made the amount of plants she could have super oppressive, which is literally the only reason why this nerf is needed. reduce the spawn rate and keep the ai, spawn less plants.

WorksAtAGayBar10 votes

Yea it really sucks since I've recently taken a liking to playing zyra mid. Short lasted :(

Resolution10 votes

I'm sorry; but the issue is support. It's more Viable to bring a nuke bot lane then an actual one.

Rather then address that issue in general - there going the easy route of nerfing every mage that has been taking advantage of it. Easy route ftl.

Valhalla Rising8 votes

I miss old zyras manual power.

sure less plants but I never ever felt like her identity was an issue, every spell grew something.

Raoul7 votes

Well, we wouldnt have to nerf mid mages to death if support champions were actually worth picking over them for the SUPPORT ROLE...

Yago5 votes

Another 'Zyra has been booted out of mid!' thread. We've been having these since her release around four years ago.

She has to hit her spells to cause her plants to attack the target. Or just auto her target. It's not like her spells don't have cooldowns, mana costs, and damages comparable to other mid lane mages.

Papa Andrei23 votes

"Oh look, my passive decided to spawn my plants between me and my tower, but oh no i only have mana for q, and the enemy team is coming to dive me? welp im shit outa luck cause my plants will just attack minions!"

Lord Malpercio3 votes

{quoted}

"Oh look, my passive decided to spawn my plants between me and my tower, but oh no i only have mana for q, and the enemy team is coming to dive me? welp im shit outa luck cause my plants will just attack minions!"

You can command the plants. :/

Papa Andrei4 votes

NOt anymore. Atleast i was able to safely defend myself if there was a minion wave nearby, but no longer.

Sraeg201315 votes

You literally have to basic attack the enemy champion for plants to prioritize them.

Enloct18 votes

In all honesty the time it takes for you to turn around and basic attack on a champ like Zyra usually means death. At least with the current state of the game.

Sraeg20137 votes

Alternatively she can actually LAND her abilities on the enemy.

It also makes plants focus champions.

yay nibbers3 votes

How dare you suggest people actually employ skill to get things done!

Sraeg20132 votes

I'm sorry. I forgot it's League of Legends where people's laziness and whining has been catered for years.

TheHappyReaperz3 votes

Mage Rework: April 19, 2016

This Post: February 11, 2017

https://media2.giphy.com/media/3o7ZeoOQ4hdszBsf0Q/200.gif#7 Bit late on the draw, don't ya think?

ThugWalrus8 votes

They're complaining about the changes to her plant AI from this patch

Yaśuo Main1 votes

its not like she WAS viable mid lane before, right?

LankPants3 votes

She was at least playable mid pre rework, whether or not she was viable is arguable. Right now she's neither.

TheHappyReaperz3 votes

Which made it so you had to land spells to make your plants deal damage?

ThugWalrus2 votes

It made it so plants don't auto-target champs. I don't know if you're being snarky or sarcastic or whatever, I was just pointing out that your comment made no sense in the context of the complaints being made in the original post.

TyroneWatermelon1 votes

You think this is a slap to the face? Get your behinds out of here,see Aatrox and Mordekaiser

LankPants13 votes

Mord's mostly played Top/Mid and Aatrox is mostly Top/Jg. On Mords original release he was a mostly solo lane champ, he had the ADC BS time but I don't think anyone actually wanted or enjoyed that. Aatrox has always been a top laner and jungler.

How is this even comparable? We're not talking about Zyra's pickrate, rather that her original role is being ignored. While Mord and Aatrox have low pickrates they're still more viable in their original roles than they are anywhere else.

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