Regarding Ekko's Q timewinder

LeftyRaydy·Aug 2, 2018·1 votes·1,762 views

This has always puzzled me and is a little frustrating at times. Why does it slow down after hitting a champion. Can it always act as when you do not hit a champion? This is why lanes against Ahri, Lux , and others are so frustrating because they can CC you then easily walk to the side with no repercussions. Talon W goes out and in so quickly and it has a wider range, so why cant Ekko's I just do not understand? I think it would make him so much healthier. Or another idea is to be able to call it back with a second cast (I know that probably wont fly though)

16 Comments

InfernapeAug 2, 20182 votes

Probably so that Ekko cannot reliably poke a champion and clear a wave simultaneously. He really has to choose between one or the other.

And to add counterplay to the ability.

LeftyRaydyAug 2, 20181 votes

look I am all for adding counterplay, but I have to Flash to counter the Lux Q or the Ahri E after I do my dash otherwise I cannot proc my passive. Flashing should not be a requirement for me to counter a basic enemy spell.

FlemmanAug 2, 20181 votes

you can move around with E tho, no need to go in a straight line

LeftyRaydyAug 2, 20181 votes

That is fine and Dandy and of course I do. here is the problem with what you are saying. 1 A good Lux or Ahri will wait until you hit them (if they have a good amount of health) then do it. If I baited out their CC then I can go right in but usually in my ELO they are a bit smarter than that. 2nd for me to have a good trade or do damage I must execute my combo/passive which is hard when I can't proc my passive, do you see where this is going. Sometimes if I time it perfectly I can completely avoid their CC because of Ekko's Instant blink, but that is more or less due to luck because timing that is ridiculous. the point to what I am saying is if I E hit them my only counter is to flash to the other side of them, but that is only worth it if I know I can kill them.

How can I do damage when I can only hit the enemy laner with the weak part of my Q because to hit an enemy with the return part of it is basically impossible early game. it really isn't fair in a lot of match ups (ranged) and comes down to waiting for the right time AKA i have to wait for an enemy to make a mistake or my jungle to come.

This is more or less an issue that isnt game breaking, but more of a quality of life. If Ahri can get a buff on her E to land her full combo so easy why cant Ekko get a buff on his Q just to make it more reliable.

Why can talon, Zed, other melee assassins have much more reliable poke then my champ Ekko. you see what I am saying take my reply from below as well.

{quoted}

Ok lets talk about this then.

Talon's has a much wider hit box and the distance is always the same whether he hits 1 or 5 champions. Ahri's Q maybe same Hitbox as Ekkos, but same thing goes the same distance and returns the same no matter how many champions hit. The only ability that is similar is Gnar, but he can easily stack his passive since he is ranged and his CD is Massively reduced for catching it.

So many other champs do not have to worry about waveclear as Ahris and talons ability both do the same damage to all champs. Ekko is the only one that out of these that literally has the worst of these abilities.

Ekkos Q does more damage on return but again its hard to get the return damage as his stun is also very hard to set up. This is one of his biggest disadvantages especially when laning against other similar abilites his is easily out classed. Ahri E (especially now with the buff to charm length) makes is so easy to land her full combo. If talon Dashes to you then W he has a very good chance to hit you on both out and return damage.

So again you see the issue here Ekko has no reliable way to hit return damage and proc his passive.

FlemmanAug 3, 20181 votes

your champ can't have poke because he has mage wave clearing without the cost of it, you can't have all.

Imo, a healthy ekko patern is Q then E then position for return of Q. E into both instance of Q damage will lack counterplay for how good the spell already is for lane pressure

all other assassin have reliable poke because they trade waveclear for that (see new akali)

LeftyRaydyAug 3, 20181 votes

So why can zed/talon have poke and wave clear. again You can Q and try to get the return damage but basically is all depends on the enemy messing up, and in Plat 3+ ELO they dont exactly give it up like a girl on prom night here. Akali has waveclear especially at lvl 9 (Maxed Q).

sometimes I get lucky and lane and I get both hits of Q and then go in for E. the point of this is though to say that The Q slowing down as soon as it touches a champion feels quite terrible as the Ekko Player. it should go a reliable distance every time. If it has to be nerfed for some range on that then fine but I hate the inconsistency.

FlemmanAug 3, 20181 votes

if akali have wave clear level 9 it's fine, it mean she actually has a rought time farming during laning phase.

talon is an out of the line champ who will most likely being tuned down, even so if he use spell to clear he lose a good amounth of mana as a result and kill pressure

zed, despise being annoying need to chose between farm and poke.

Ekko can do both and that's the problem. (Q having a very long range and don't stop on minion so no safe place from it)

I don't know why you can't admit that landing easily (because that's what you want if i understand right) the 2 Q proc to burst with a followup E would be extremely unhealthy for the champ.

Something you also seems to elude is the fact that, while being slow on first champ hit or max range, the target itself is also slowed by the spell to help you proc that last Q damage.

You want Ekko Q to be even more powerfull that it is now, fine, but don't expect this to come with no cost at all in his kit

LeftyRaydyAug 3, 20181 votes

Your not understanding. I play the champ A LOT. let me tell you its not at long range its an issue its the close range. because the ability basically dead stops if it hits a champion. I would take range reduction on this ability if it acted consistently, because it is so easy to dodge. Ahri Zed and other have a way to land all their abilities and utilze their combo's effectly as most assassins should have a way to execute their full combo with some consistency otherwise what is the point. Ahri has her E, talon's ability goes out and come back the same every time, zed just has to aim correctly, akali can now jump to her target with her E, but Ekko's Q is not reliable at close or long range due to the way it behaves.

Even with this Ekko is one of the slower melee champions (340 MS) so champions can just walk away and you cannot finish your combo. You know who else has 340 MS Zoe. I am unable to trade damage effectively because of Ekko's Q, meanwhile all other assassins can land their combo's reliably or the enemy has to flash out of it. ekkos you have be lucky or bait out CC first which is pretty stupid and since he cant get his move speed from his passive as well it leaves you in a terrible position. Maybe the slow on his Q needs to be increased but either way it does not work well enough unless you can proc your passive and run in front of or behind your enemy then you can hit them again.

How many times people get away from only 2 hits of my passive is ridiculous. meanwhile if it was Talon or Ahri it would have never happened. so please let me the guy who plays Ekko for over 1000 games and know him pretty much in and out tell you how ridiculous this is, because it feels like talon is a better version of Ekko right now as their abilities and roles are quite similar except he has better items to choose from, more free movement, and more. The only thing Ekko has on him is a stun and landing Ekko's stun is not easy at all.

wildfox99Aug 3, 20181 votes

if you are enough good you can dodge their Q/E with your blink when the skillshot is between you and your target,if you are in low elo chase them before autoattacking,wait a bit and they will panic throwing on you something,then you E

else you can use your W before trading so you get a shield,even if they CC you once you cast your AA it can't be stopped

also there is something called counterpick

LeftyRaydyAug 3, 20181 votes

of couse this is stuff I know, but it feel bad man when your enemy is low you blink Q (2 stacks of passive) then they just cc you and walk away. Again they have to mess up (throwing out their CC before you blink to them) for me to get my passive off. all in all I feel this is very akward and I had losing a trade or letting an enemy get away because my Q will not get return damage/passive proc because of the way it is. I am willing to take some range of the ability off to get it to be reliable and consistent. Its just dumb it just hits a champion and then barely goes any further and it moves slower than molasses in the winter.

wildfox99Aug 3, 20181 votes

the same happens in the lane fizz vs ekko for example ekko easily outpush him,he can poke with his Q and if fizz try to trade you dodge his E with yours avoiding his damage and then countertrade with AA Q,also ekko easily win 1 vs 1 so unless he doesn't fk up the lane is won you can't expect hard matchups being easy

also once you get revolver you can try to 100-0 them,W behind them E Q,you get CC'd and low HP,but they used all their abilities (aka they don't have damage) so now you continue to fight,you get your W shield and auto them,your abilities have a shoter CD than theirs and you used them before your enemy so you will win the fight if something goes wrong press R

the fact that his Q second is slow it's fair since the projectile is pretty fast (and it slows you) and if your enemy gets a double hit he either gets killed or forced to back actually i like it,it helps to zone and if used in a melee range it will come back faster

LeftyRaydyAug 6, 20181 votes

so put it this way. If my recommended change is implemented it would give melee champs a better chance. right now the ability will basically stay right on top of them as soon as it hits them, but if i went the same distance every time they would be able to move out of the way?

DuskDaUmbreonAug 2, 20181 votes

It slows down to give you reasonable time to react to the second hit.

Ahri's Q also slows down at the end, as it prepares to return. Talon's W outright stops at the end before returning. Lux's E has been made significantly smaller, and is reasonable to dodge now.

LeftyRaydyAug 2, 20181 votes

Ok lets talk about this then.

Talon's has a much wider hit box and the distance is always the same whether he hits 1 or 5 champions. Ahri's Q maybe same Hitbox as Ekkos, but same thing goes the same distance and returns the same no matter how many champions hit. The only ability that is similar is Gnar, but he can easily stack his passive since he is ranged and his CD is Massively reduced for catching it.

So many other champs do not have to worry about waveclear as Ahris and talons ability both do the same damage to all champs. Ekko is the only one that out of these that literally has the worst of these abilities.

Ekkos Q does more damage on return but again its hard to get the return damage as his stun is also very hard to set up. This is one of his biggest disadvantages especially when laning against other similar abilites his is easily out classed. Ahri E (especially now with the buff to charm length) makes is so easy to land her full combo. If talon Dashes to you then W he has a very good chance to hit you on both out and return damage.

So again you see the issue here Ekko has no reliable way to hit return damage and proc his passive.

wildfox99Aug 3, 20181 votes