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I think Stealth should be removed from the game until it is Healthy, Change my mind

LeftyRaydy··22 votes·6,646 views

There are exceptions to this case, but overall I believe Stealth Mechanics should be removed from the game until Riot figures out a way to make it healthy. The following is all my opinion and if you disagree feel free to comment but let us be civil. I am listing champions stealth by priority to me on how toxic these abilities and mechanics are of their stealth. Either way we should find balance to stealth mechanics before making anymore champs with stealth!

Akali - I know she is getting a rework, but lets talk about her current and possible future stealth. Her W is absolutely toxic and makes trading with her a nightmare as 1 she doesnt have Mana so all she has to do is drop that get an insane movement speed and blink all in 1 package. Idk how many champions get so many things in 1 ability (usually you might just get a passive ability), but she gets so many active abilities just from a W which is 8 seconds of stealth! Then she can proceed to attack you with almost 0 counterplay as she will just be invisible and you cannot react with any auto attacks and targeted abilities. Do not even get me started on her new possible "TRUE STEALTH" Cannot even be seen by turrets why have turrets at all and I am starting to wonder if Riot is trying to get rid of turrets at this point?

Rengar - so to give you some context I took a break from the game for 15 months from March 2017 - June 2018 and to see Rengar reverted to this disgusting state is just unbelievable. It does not matter how far behind he is as he can instantly pop any "squishy" target. This shouldn't be a thing like ever no one has fun in a game where someone comes out of no where and just 100-0 you in a second.

Vayne - I started my League of Legends "career" as an ADC main (Caitlyn end of Season 2) and I have always despised this champion. I think one of the worst things about Stealth is the ability to go in and out of it quickly as it makes it feel like your being outplayed by a mechanic and not by skill. Trying to guess where a champion is because they keep going in and out of stealth is just a terrible and un-fun experience.

Talon - He is a bit Over tuned, but I will say his stealth is honestly not that bad compared to others his damage however is out of control.

Wukong - Stealth is not his issue again just like talon his damage is a bit out of control

Shaco - I mean a good Shaco is one of the biggest pain in the asses, but a bad shaco is just terrible and useless so it shows there is some skill needed here.

Kha ZIx - I do not think his stealh has ever been a problem on him (other than when it gave him insane Damage reduction) so I think his stealth has a decent balance to it.

Twitch - Because of the adc's being nerfed it is hard to fuly gauge, but his stealth is not terrible and its timed, probably one of the better of all the stealths and he cannot go in and out of stealth when he feels like it (talking about you Akali).

Evelyn - I cannot comment on as I am not aware of her new abilites as the old Eve I was use to was always stealth.

Kai Sa - Does she need the stealth definitely not, but its not the worst thing to exist in League of Legends.

Leblanc and Teemo - These champs Stealth are situational so not really a huge issue.

24 Comments

Jamaree10 votes

I agree with you personally, I miss oracles and actual pink wards.

420 grams6 votes

What if instead we added true stealth?

LeftyRaydy3 votes

That is a great Idea towers should be even more useless! Riot was right all along.

5050BS3 votes

Pyke is the only Champ that has a Healthy Stealth mechanic.

You very much are aware he is near by and can prepare but he still has the advantage.

Wacky92 votes

Twitch and Teemo have good stealth mechanics as well. Twitch's stealth is pretty necessary on a champion that has no mobility and bad CC. He also depends on AA to deal damage, but he needs to get close without getting instantly bursted. Teemo's stealth is so situational that he rarely takes advantage of it. It has a single use, (two if you count hexflash memery), to sit in a bush and murder whomever tries and enters it.

Teridax682 votes

Unpopular opinion: I think stealth itself could be fine, and in fact I'd be okay with removing true sight as a specific hard-counter altogether, as well as the detection radius to camouflage, so long as stealth champions had counterplay that properly acknowledged their stealth. The problem so far with stealth champions to me isn't so much that they escape detection (though that is certainly abusive when it can be activated on-demand in the middle of combat to get away scot-free), but that these champions frequently get to output a ton of upfront burst the instant they leave stealth. Twitch is probably the clearest example, because his camouflage radius is often irrelevant thanks to his range, and he can access so many steroids upon leaving stealth that he often ends up applying a ton of front-loaded, unavoidable burst. This is a problem worsened by items like Duskblade, Statikk Shiv, and Stormrazor, as all of these add bonus damage to a user's autoattack, making it both front-loaded and unavoidable at the same time. Shaco and Wukong have abused this the hardest, as both rely on autoattacking their opponent immediately upon leaving stealth, which is why both have turned into one-shot machines as well. As such, I think we need to start by reevaluating the burst patterns of these champions, as well as their itemization, rather than cut stealth entirely.

If there is one thing I agree with, though, it's that stealth itself has been used improperly as well. To me, stealth while in combat should be extremely brief, and should just be a more special way of repositioning (i.e. Kha or Vayne's stealth, though both have their own issues as well), and long-duration stealth should only be accessible out of combat. Additionally, in the event that a champion does get hit while in stealth (though not necessarily damaged by a DoT or hit by a projectile launched before they stealthed), I think the stealth should just drop instantly. The entire point to stealth is to fool the enemy, so if they figure out where you are, they aren't fooled.

Ideally, what this should mean is that stealth lasting more than a second should only be activatable out of combat: in the case of abilities like Rengar's ult or Twitch's Q, this might imply a cooldown that would constantly get back up to maximum while in combat, whereas for champions like Shaco or Talon, would likely mean that their abilities could still function normally, just without the stealth component while right in the middle of a fight. In Akali's case, I do think refreshable invisibility could be okay, so long as she were fully revealed by getting hit.

LeftyRaydy3 votes

but this is what I mean. The stealth is definitely unhealthy the way it is so why do we allow it to continue. They need a Stealth Champ update and fix the Stealth issues.

Teridax681 votes

I agree that stealth is unhealthy the way it is, but I wanted to point out that I personally oppose changing stealth itself. We already had an update to stealth with the Assassin Update, and that portion of the update failed, along with the rest, because the update tried to change stealth by making some champions visible while they were meant to be invisible, without really addressing why those champions were unhealthy to begin with. Heroes of the Storm did a similar thing where stealth champions leave an outline while in motion, which defeats the entire purpose of the mechanic. This is what I don't want to happen in League. I want stealth to be as simple as possible, i.e. complete invisibility, and I think champion kits should then be able to use this mechanic and balance themselves along very specific rules to make sure they remain healthy. This means no upfront burst from stealth, no long-duration stealth as this get-out-of-jail free card in the middle of a fight, and no layers upon layers of finicky hard-counters between stealth and vision, as is happening with the Akali VGU and its true stealth's contribution to the arms race. If we at least started by removing front-loaded burst from itemization, that could already be a start.

Subject 52 votes

I think stealth is healthy,

HOWEVER

I don't think that stealth should be tacked on with extreme damage: Rengar Twitch Khazix MonkeyKing Shaco

Champions that prove to be quite healthy however: Evelynn Pyke

Duskz1012 votes

Your opinion on stealth is skewed and one directional. No need for anyone to change your mind.

YourNumber1Fan1 votes

Akali her stealth early levels has a long cool down so thats not really a problem

Rengar fed is cancer pop ult tower dive you 100/0 in the blink of a eye

Vayne im not to sure about i don't see a problem with her kit

Talon i main yes hes damage is broken but im a talon main so im not complaining and hes stealth does not last for that long anyways and if you did remove it from talons kit he would be really weak since you can just cc him as soon as he pops hes ult

Wukong just like talon broken damage hes stealth is ok i guess ive never really had a problem with it other then getting 1 shot by hes cancerous ult

Shaco not really a problem either unless hes a good Shaco then hes kinda cancerous

Kha zix is ok the way he is

twitch is ok aswell

Eve is ok aswell reason being from what ive seen she will charm you with that love heart above your head so its kinda a give away shes near and if she does not use it you just walk away

leblanc and teemo are ok

kai sa from what ive seen shes alright

now onto the main topic

if you remove stealth as a whole all the champs above or most of them become useless and players will not take this nicely alot and i mean alot of players will quit if they did remove stealth

its part of what makes league unique embrace it !

LeftyRaydy2 votes

I am saying fix stealth on the broken steal champions or remove it and compensate accordingly. Because Stealth is not a fun Mechanic but can be worked into something where you do not feel cheated because you can't see the champion.

paisy1 votes

They recently had to revert KhaZix's evolved stealth cause it was beyond broken

Smart Girl1 votes

wow i made the same thing in a troll post and someone just makes it and people just agree with it and i thank god non of you people work for riot

LeftyRaydy2 votes

Literally I am not saying Stealth is bad in theory I just don't think it is healthy for some stealthed champions at the moment with the damage they have right now. Akali is my biggest gripe and because how many times I have gotten her low, she pops shroud and either hits me with a Q, Auto or E which her passive sustain then gets her health back up until she is in a position where she can all of a sudden have a huge advantage in an ability that is better than her ultimate. I do not think that is a healthy stealth mechanic at all. if you don't think then I a glad you do not work at riot. How can you give any advice on the game as a Bronze 5 and 0 LP at that? You mostly play blind pick normals so I am guessing you are more of the casual gamer which is fine, and I mean no offense I just highly doubt people use many champions Mechanically correct in that Elo.

LightningShado1 votes

It increases the outplay potential of champions and it's fun to play as stealthed champions. Also, there are ways to counter stealth like getting close to them, getting away from them, or hitting them to find their position through shimmers.

zaire901 votes

So you have a problem with 3 champs that use stealth and out of those 3 1 of them you really hate cause of the damage he can pump out not the stealth but still think stealth should be removed from the other 75% of champs because of 3 champs

LeftyRaydy1 votes

Ok but these 3 champs have always been a problem, but now with Damage so high they are way too over tuned. Like I said I do not mind stealth on most champions but I have seen too many Rengars and Akalis taken advantage of the lack of counter play. I won a game against a Rengar but every time he ulted he killed someone not me because I was fed, but he would 1 shot someone. I have been that person in the past. How is that fun at all?

LTK KoRo1 votes

Stealth is healthy IF it have a short duration and isn't spammable. Also, we're talking here only about stealth, not camouflage, which are two different things, so Rengar, Eve and Twitch should be removed from this list.

Anyway. I think most of the current Stealths are balanced right now. Shaco Q is fair. It last up to 4.5 secs, but it have a big cooldown. Kha Stealth is linked to his ult and his evolution, so if he wants a lot of stealth, he need to give up damage, aoe or resets. Wukongs stealth is balanced, but his 150% AD scaling q+duskblade isn't. Talon stealth is low duration and linked to ult, it's the least unfair thing is his kit. Teemo stealth is more like a cheese stealth, nothing serious. LB doesn't control when she's going to be stealthed. Current Akali stealth is OP in lane, but pretty bad in teamfights.

The only stealth which i dislike is Vayne stealth. When she's fighting it's cooldown is so low, and she gets a dash to reposition while being stealthed and a bonus damage on next AA. I know she have to commit her ult to be stealthed, but it feels terrible to fight her if you know you aren't able to kill her during CC

LeftyRaydy1 votes

Akali and Vayne with the refresh of stealth is what bothers me the most. I mean going stealth and coming out of it is one thing but to go back and forth to being stealthed is so annoying. Your are half right about akali, as her team fight stealth isnt great, but she probably already jumped to your back line and killed your buddies so now you have to wait for her to unstealth when she pleases.

KidagakashNedakh1 votes

I play AP Shaco frequently as (greatest to least), support, top, mid, and jg. I guess you can check my match history to understand how much I play him.

I don't think stealth is unhealthy. There are far more annoying aspects in league, such as a champion with a "loaded kit", and even then, they offer plenty of opportunity to re-think a strategy for an out-play. Going into lane with a clear disadvantage (I.E. Shaco vs Garen), remembering the enemies timers on abilities, positioning, and setting up the play well before it happens, are all part of the fun for me.

Simply put, there are plenty of ways to overcome stealth -even though some champs rely on stealth as an integrated part of their kit.

When Q'ing into a team as Shaco, it's necessary for survival to avoid the (obvious) new pink wards, towers, and sweepers. Plus, boxes can be easily triggered/destroyed by any number of things.

For perspective however, even when going AD on Shaco, the same apply, and things such as Rengar's ult, or WW's passive make stealthy gameplay extremely difficult to overcome, but not impossible.

It's important to note that these stealth champions (although suited with plenty of dmg), also -aren't the tankiest- but are designed to fuly exploit their assassin role. So obstacles such as; build, skilled decision making, and general obstacles (perhaps better teamwork, warding etc.), all come into account. Not to mention, when an enemy is playing a champions such as eve, there are warning signs for when she's nearby. So there are many ways of countering what's in my opinion, an almost insignificant issue.

  • Kida
ChaddyFantome1 votes

" Think Basic attacks should be removed from the game until it is healthy Change my mind"

[sg-lulu]

LeftyRaydy2 votes

Yes hilarious. Thank you for the input I wrote a nice long thought out post on how not all champs with stealth are bad, but the ones that are make the game so much less fun. Thank you for taking your time and posting your much needed comment. This definitely has changed my mind.

ChaddyFantome1 votes

{quoted}

Yes hilarious. Thank you for the input I wrote a nice long thought out post on how not all champs with stealth are bad, but the ones that are make the game so much less fun. Thank you for taking your time and posting your much needed comment. This definitely has changed my mind.

Glad I could make a different! ^.^ [slayer-jinx-wink]

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