Every rework these days seems to come with an enormous amount of true damage. Gangplank's AAs hitting for 10-15% of your life as true damage. Fiora killing you and having over half her damage as true damage.
I mean, true damage is fine, but it's everywhere now and it's so far beyond completely out of control.
SEKAI60 votesTrue damage is okay.
What's actually disgusting is the %HP.
blueberrypancake35 votesThen again CertainlyT stands for Certainly True Damage
you can check the wiki for that
Narasimha13 votesWhat the actual hell does this have to do with anything? Hate on CT if you want, but atleast be damn LOGICAL about it. CT had no part in Garen, GP, or Fiora.
Face The Lewd18 votesThen again CertainlyT stands for Certainly True Damage
you can check the wiki for that
And what does CT have to do with any recent rework aside from Morde? People just love scapegoating the guy for anything they don't like at this point huh
BiBoX21 votesIt has some "rivalry" effects ;-) .
When CertainlyT bypasses the testing & balance team by making complex calculations, he made some champions borderline OP (i.e. oppressive when you know how to exploit the kit - make it much more damage than how it looks first).
He came up with some nice innovations - how to make OP champs without being nerfed severely by balance team? Big numbers are not likely to pass, so what did he do?
Opponents has dash and blink? Ok now I'll give my champ Mulptiple dash/blinks (to a point it's like infinite).
Another way is to inject some hidden stats via "passive", CertainlyT did it well.
Yet another way is stacking damage, the classical way is via AoE damage, the new way is stacking ability or stacking points: if you hit a Q then you can hit another Q; or stack multi points Q to proc consumption as a burst.
He also combines some nice ideas like "extra dash" (Thresh lantern), or "slow box" (Karthus+Veigar = Thresh's ult); or comebine untargetability to dash/pet would increase outplay ability to next level. Don't have to be 'ultimate' skill as low CD, it's good if that skill can be spammed.
That's the reason why when other designers starts to realize those, they also wants their designed champion has some "nice" damage. Which leads to the points of "true damage" as you see.
Example:
Janna Me Fiddle1 votesTrue damage is okay.
What's actually disgusting is the %HP.
^This all day.
True damage is countered by building HP, %HP or %HP True damage (Looking at you Vayne and Jinx, more Jinx) has no counter other than "Don't get hit by it"
Jinx'es R is just plain disgusting, it makes me want to return to the days when Tristana and Lucian were the carries of choice.
L Rayquaza2 votesJinx ult is physical, not true
Janna Me Fiddle1 votesI know it's physical, doesn't stop it being disgusting because it has %HP damage
Akesgeroth1 votesAbsolutely agree there. Physical damage makes you want to build armor. Magic damage makes you want to build MR. True damage makea you want to buils health.
%max health true damage, however, kills everyone just as quickly, regardless of what you build. It massively hurts tanks, especially the low mobility or low damage ones who are meant to stay in the fight a long time.
Tik11520 votesTrue damage is fine its the % true damage which isn't
I mean Kindred does % current AND % Max hp damage but its got a counter because its not true damage it's physical, sure it'll deal alot when she gets marks but it's still got it's counter in armour
Vayne and Fiora have % max health true damage which makes it impossible to counter (Armour does nothing, Health makes it hurt more)
I'm fine with having true damage so long as its got limits (Irelias is low, Garen only applys to the villian, Darius is based on bleed stacks) and I'm fine with % damage (Except % missing) but % true damage is near impossible to balance (Its ether too small to mean much or broken OP) and needs to be removed
Auz the Ripper2 votes%hp true damage does have a counter: offensive stats so you kill them faster then the true damage kills you.
Now, I don't think it's a reasonable or healthy counter, but it is a counter
7ha7guy7773 votesThe true counters are shields and rapid healing.
Tik1151 votesExcept in terms of healing so long as % max HP true damage exists you can't outheal it where as % current it'll be a lower number to balance out at the least and shields, well in Vaynes case unless you have an AP janna 1 bolt proc will shatter said shield
Akesgeroth1 votesIt's not merely that it's impossible to counter. Not everything needs a counter. But many, many characters are built with "Get tanky and stay in the fight a long time" and %maxhp true damage completely wrecks them. That would be like making champions who return 100% of the physical damage they take as true damage.
Tik1151 votesNot everything needs a counter but the powerful things do, True damage by itself is strong but is countered by ether low numbers (Irelia/corki) Specific limitations (Garen/Darius) or has a long CD (Ignite)
% Max HP true damage however is immensely powerful but has almost no proper counter (As I said, you can't outheal Max hp true damage even with Soraka and no support has a shield strong enough outside of maybe Braum shield if we're literal here but his damage reduction doesn't apply to true damage so he'll get destroyed and other actual shield champs won't have the AP to shield maybe one silverbolt proc) to block it ether.
Honestly if we had means of damage reduction (Alistar ult Braum E Exhaust Sona W) apply to true damage we'd have our counter right there, but it doesn't affect true damage for some reason
Akesgeroth1 votesNor does it need to. The counter to true damage is building health.
Tik1151 votesThen explain the counter to % max health true damage
Akesgeroth1 votesYou might want to re-read my initial post.
Rebonack16 votesTrue Damage is a good way to help champions deal lots of damage without causing them turn soft targets into a fine red mist.
Riot has been trying to figure out how to make melee carries viable without simply giving them MOAR DAMAGE than ranged carries. The formula they have found works best is to give melee carries some way to invalidate enemy defense.
Scramrail1 votesIf that's their goal wouldn't it make more sense to give %hp damage rather than true damage? At least that way they wouldn't be able to just delete carries the second theyre within melee range.
To be honest, im not overly fond of %hp damage OR true damage, at least not in the frequency/scale we've been seeing them lately. But if the objective is to allow melee carries to be relevant damage wise while also being able to build tanky enough to survive to do said damage, %hp would seemingly be better than true damage imo.
Kitten of Evil3 voteswouldn't it make more sense to give %hp damage rather than true damage?
Why not have both? Flat true damage is very much not a problem when balanced properly, and helps against both squishies and tanks -- for your Vel'Koz, Cho'gath, and Ahri, this helps your damage stay relevant without being overpowered.
Scramrail1 votesThe only reason I personally feel %hp damage is a better option than true damage is because if you hit a tank with 200 true damage its not that big of a deal, but a carry getting hit for 200 true damage is going to be hurting a lot more simply because tanks have more health. At least with the %hp, a carry doesn't need to worry so much about getting chunked for huge quantities of health because of true damage.
But ill be honest, im no expert here and I don't have any numbers or anything to base my assumption on. Its purely an "on paper" sort of point im talking about, and as I said im not overly fond of either.
Kitten of Evil3 votesTrue, but that's the case with any flat damage, especially since squishies usually don't build much resistance. Take a Vel'Koz with 
, the mpen mastery (6%) and Mpen runes, against a squishy with MR/level blues.
30+26 MR blues at level 18 = 56 MR 56 x (0.65 x 0.94) = 34.216 MR after Void Staff and Mastery 34.216 - (15+15+7.8) = -3.6 MR after Boots, Haunting Guise/Liandry's, and Reds
You're dealing true damage either way against a squishy.
Edited for number clarity.
Rebonack6 votesIf that's their goal wouldn't it make more sense to give %hp damage rather than true damage? At least that way they wouldn't be able to just delete carries the second theyre within melee range.
To be honest, im not overly fond of %hp damage OR true damage, at least not in the frequency/scale we've been seeing them lately. But if the objective is to allow melee carries to be relevant damage wise while also being able to build tanky enough to survive to do said damage, %hp would seemingly be better than true damage imo.
%HP damage falters against shields and gets blunted by by defense. Typically %HP damage (physical or magical) is going to be vastly more effective against soft targets since they'll typically be grabbing one resist item and that's about it. %HP damage mostly exists for the purpose of giving a champion relevant damage at all stages in the game against all targets without snowballing into itself too hard.
True damage is specifically for tackling hard targets. Tanks, Juggernauts, Bruisers, heavy Fighters and the like. If the damage were tuned to still be viable against these targets while being Physical or Magic, it would pop soft targets near instantly.
Combining the two means you want damage that is equally effective against all targets. Case in point: Fiora. Her whole thing is being able to effectively duel any champion in the game. If her Innate was dealing physical damage it would be vastly inferior against hard targets. If it were dealing flat True damage then it would likely be snowballing even harder against soft low HP folks. As such, %HP True damage is the most workable solution.
Damage types are simply tools.
Axis the Dragon2 votes% BONUS hp true damage
boom, affects tanks more than carries
LittleBlast1 votesAnd make her not have a passive early game or vs carries? No thanks.
Theorchero2 votesTrue Damage is a good way to help champions deal lots of damage without causing them turn soft targets into a fine red mist.
Riot has been trying to figure out how to make melee carries viable without simply giving them MOAR DAMAGE than ranged carries. The formula they have found works best is to give melee carries some way to invalidate enemy defense.
Then why the fuck is every ranged character getting % hp damage?
THESuperStuntMan8 votesI feel True damage is fine. You can just build HP to counter that. The bigger problem I feel is all the %health damage there is. The only counter to that is to not pick a tank in the first place and just build damage.
Dengeden1 votesOr build resistances ... but that's even more silly than not picking a tank.
doiminat0r36001 votesThe problem isnt that it goes through resistances or that it does the damage. It's that it scales off your stats, not theirs. If it does scale off theirs it adds a few extra %.
Dengeden1 votesBut if the champion is balanced around the fact that their damage scales slightly with the health you build ... that's a good thing. Besides, certain healthstackers are toxic as hell to play against 
and the more counterplay they have, the better.
Kitten of Evil6 votesIf balanced well it's really not a problem: 
Having mixed damage on a champion is a good way to make it harder to counterbuild that champion:
Physical damage = armor
Magical damage = MR
True damage = HP
I think it's more that % HP damage is hard to balance, whatever kind it is. Tahm Kench's 32% of your max HP + 8% of his max HP is pretty ridiculous too
Oelyk5 votesCounters tank meta. also Screws up squishies.
Actually xPeke4 votesThere's not that much true damage. Just a lot of % damage. which is annoying.. and stupidly broken if you look at Tahm his 32% max health damage
Yaskamasandwich4 votesTrue damage is fine until you mix Blade of the Ruined King into the mix. Then add Last Whisper on top of that for the lawls. Most synergized ad items are out of control but at least it costs gold. It's not also as crazy as %health damage since true damage gets hit harder by shields.
Meep Man3 votesGaren, Gangplank, and Fiora... thats 3 of 7 recent reworks. Also Gangplank's is in no way a problem.
Gnart Even Close7 votes[{quoted}](name=Inept Maverick,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=o9AGEhjg,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2015-10-22T11:48:26.298+0000)
Garen, Gangplank, and Fiora... thats 3 of 7 recent reworks. Also Gangplank's is in no way a problem.
objection, darius still does true damage. but the both garen and fiora got %health true damage, which is literally the most cancerous thing in the world. i swear that if riot did a rework of Riven, they would add %health true damage just cuz.
brad6 votes%health true damage, which is literally the most cancerous thing in the world.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cancer
i think this is what ur looking for
alfavhunter2 votes[{quoted}](name=Inept Maverick,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=o9AGEhjg,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2015-10-22T11:48:26.298+0000)
Garen, Gangplank, and Fiora... thats 3 of 7 recent reworks. Also Gangplank's is in no way a problem.
Darius
brad3 votesmfw bard ekko kindred and tom dont have true damage, all 4 champions released in 2015
mfw the ONLY CHAMPIONS who got true damage put onto them were gangplank and fiora, and garen
mfw u think there is a "surge of true damage"
MetalGearTeemu2 votesthis is true, but ekko, kindred and tom got overloaded kits with 3x attack for outplay mechanics instead.
all of them got % damage as well.
Ekko and kindred (Fiora as well ) also got what seems to be Riots new favorite Q cancer too, dashes which auto-aim the attack tied to them for you. Which is basically play making training wheels, since you have a much easier time out-fighting anyone with a traditional skillshot, since there is no chance of execution error on your nukes while having a built in juke for one of theirs.
Because everyone loved dealing with old Heimer rockets right?
Crownsy3 votes[{quoted}](name=lol I died again,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=o9AGEhjg,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-10-22T07:03:54.486+0000)
Every rework these days seems to come with an enormous amount of true damage. Gangplank's AAs hitting for 10-15% of your life as true damage. Fiora killing you and having over half her damage as true damage.
I mean, true damage is fine, but it's everywhere now and it's so far beyond completely out of control.
It was to deal with the Tank meta, to cut past the armor tank. Which is now pretty much killed due to them redoing items. So now we have champs going around doing True damage to squishes and fighters.
Riot at it's finest
Valor Bot2 votesDid they ever go through with the Syndra buffs that were going to grant her true damage?
Jasiwel2 votesTrue damage is okay because it's often conditional and you can build against with straight HP. The problem is easily %healthtruedamage to which there is no counter other than "just kill them bro."
The Sword Saint1 votes% true damage is even more conditional. Irelia presses w and gets it on every auto, vayne has to hit three autos in a row and fiora has to hit you from a certain telegraphed direction.
JustMyBassCannon1 votesUmm, Irelia's W is flat true damage, actually. 15/30/45/60/75 flat, not any percentage.
TyroneWatermelon2 votesWhat if I spoil you,Poppy going to have true damage also And probably some of the preseason marksmen update They should create an item that reduced true damage(yes it's retarded and eliminating the concept) but still could work no?
S3XAS2 votesLets be honest Riot is out of ideas for the champs. Most reworks now have stacking passive and true dmg.
Stand in my X2 votesCertainlyT strikes again
