"If you don't like it, why don't you participate in discussions to help make the game better?"

lol I died again·Dec 16, 2014·10 votes·1,686 views

"We have removed your content due to a violation of the following board rule: Adhere to Board Guidelines"

Just as hilariously useful as "You have been [permanently forum banned] for Violations of the Summoner’s Code". You know, the **exact ** same explanation that was given when you were in-game banned for the first few years of the game, before they realized that it was horrendously terrible and decided to completely revamp the system to be more useful, but ultimately decided to continue using that same system for the forums anyways... for 3+ years.

But hey, at least that's a much better option than you know, just moving the thread to the location it belongs to. Wait, was that the problem? I don't know. Everything is always intentionally equivocal, I'm never really told much of anything.

At this rate, we're soon going to reach the state of WoW -- where the suggestions subforum is completely deleted, and all suggestions are disregarded and ignored with zero communication. This is the reward that awaits a great portion of those that try to make the game better.

inb4 deleted

17 Comments

redniwediSDec 16, 20144 votes

You could always try not having your posts deleted. It doesn't seem to be a problem for most people on here, even people who are particularly negative and unhelpful/unconstructive.

DaenDec 16, 20142 votes

"We have removed your content due to a violation of the following board rule: Adhere to Board Guidelines"

Yeah this is unacceptable. Tamat has confirmed that Riot at least agrees that it's completely worthless, just a question of how long it will take for improvement.

As for deletion vs movement, a lot of community members agree. I presume there's a reason for the whole deletion thing, but I'm still confused as to why moving isn't even a consideration.

Dr Clueless PhDDec 16, 20142 votes

The answer is actually quite simple. I've done forum modding, so I know why they did it this way:

If you move people's threads instead of deleting them, a subpopulation of posters will simply post EVERYTHING they write in the default forum, waiting to have it moved by a mod later. Do many people do this? No, but it's enough to make your life a living hell.

Now, the Boards make this issue exponentially worse, unfortunately. The interface for posting a discussion is apparently not very clear. A huge number of people post things in Boards Feedback (the default), because they don't realize that they can/should change what Board it gets posted in. Hell, the OP in this thread may have done that exact thing. They only realize this after getting a message about their post being deleted.

By taking a deletion stance, they're teaching people after one go that, yes, you do need to post in the correct place. If they took a movement stance here, Boards Feedback would be getting a ridiculous amount of traffic that ultimately all had to be moved.

DaenDec 16, 20141 votes

If you move people's threads instead of deleting them, a subpopulation of posters will simply post EVERYTHING they write in the default forum, waiting to have it moved by a mod later.

There is no default board; clicking Create a Discussion either defaults to the currently viewed board or requires the user to select one from a dropdown. As for posting everything to a single board expecting moderators to move it, this just doesn't happen in a well-maintained environment. Users will occasionally make mistakes, but as long as repeat offenses are treated correctly (if you expect mods to do your dirty work you'll be muted or banned) it's not a particularly significant issue.

Do many people do this? No, but it's enough to make your life a living hell.

As I briefly mentioned above, good moderation policy would harshly punish people abusing the moving system. If you have a pattern of intentionally posting in the wrong place or not caring about the location, it's pretty clear you don't deserve to be part of the community.

A huge number of people post things in Boards Feedback (the default)

Again, there isn't a default. A user has to either select Boards Feedback from a dropdown or navigate to the specific Boards Feedback board in order to post here.

By taking a deletion stance, they're teaching people after one go that, yes, you do need to post in the correct place. If they took a movement stance here, Boards Feedback would be getting a ridiculous amount of traffic that ultimately all had to be moved.

This is flawed logic. Deletion might teach people that they are posting in the wrong place, but it doesn't do anything to show where they should be posting. I understand this isn't the eventual goal, but currently there is usually one place (maybe two) where a thread belongs.

I could make the same argument by saying that throwing students out of my classroom is a great teaching tool as opposed to sitting down with them and explaining why what they are doing isn't ideal. Sure, throwing them out gets the point across, but it's not likely to make them like me or like my class.

If they took a movement stance here, Boards Feedback would be getting a ridiculous amount of traffic that ultimately all had to be moved.

Something people seem to be forgetting, users post about deletions all the time. The fact they are so unclear and so sudden leads people to be confused and frustrated with the platform, which can simultaneously cause people to leave the platform and give moderators/Riot more work by potentially needing to address these concerns.

Also, Boards Feedback already gets lots of posts that need to be deleted. Why is the immediate assumption here that moving will significantly raise that number, assuming repeat offenders are properly controlled?

Dr Clueless PhDDec 16, 20141 votes

The default board behavior has changed, apparently. Last time I made a thread from the Boards page overall, the dropdown defaulted to Boards Feedback. I just tried in response to your post and saw that it doesn't anymore.

In that case, yeah, they probably could move threads rather than delete them, IF they put a system in place to control repeat offenders, as you put it.

TrinityunicornDec 16, 20141 votes

I think if they would just include a copy of the deleted material in the notification to the poster, that they could repost or at least try in the correct forum, it would go a long way towards lessening the frustration. To me at least, the biggest aggravation is that, you lost the material that you were working up to post, and now since its been deleted, you have to work it up all over again. OR if it could be saved to the posts or replies made by the individual where it could easily be recovered and reposted.

DaenDec 16, 20142 votes

Agreed. They have already demonstrated that they have functional (and surprisingly robust) lock functionality, I have no idea why they only use it for copy-paste actions where they funnel feedback to one location.

It's really confusing to me, because they clearly have the mechanics in place and a lot of community support. I'm sure there's a reason for Riot not deciding to use it in a more wide-spread fashion, but I don't get it.

Hyrum GraffDec 16, 20141 votes

{quoted} As for deletion vs movement, a lot of community members agree. I presume there's a reason for the whole deletion thing, but I'm still confused as to why moving isn't even a consideration.

A further reason beyond what Dr Clueless PhD said, is because when we have user-created boards, there will be many boards that make their own rules and have overlapping topics. It won't be clear which board something belongs to, but it will be clear whether something belongs to a given board.

DaenDec 16, 20142 votes

when we have user-created boards, there will be many boards that make their own rules and have overlapping topics.

While I understand this for the future, it's a source of significant annoyance in the current system. The current forums are not the unlimited utopia Riot seems to be working for; they are just forums. Everything is centralized and topics have distinct locations where they belong, so deletion feels like a punishment rather than maintenance.

Even if moving isn't a possibility, locking would feel infinitely better. The fact things literally disappear from the internet for any moderation action feels terrible, even as someone that's just interested in checking back on deleted threads if I have the URL.

Hyrum GraffDec 16, 20141 votes

{quoted}

While I understand this for the future, it's a source of significant annoyance in the current system. The current forums are not the unlimited utopia Riot seems to be working for; they are just forums. Everything is centralized and topics have distinct locations where they belong, so deletion feels like a punishment rather than maintenance.

Even if moving isn't a possibility, locking would feel infinitely better. The fact things literally disappear from the internet for any moderation action feels terrible, even as someone that's just interested in checking back on deleted threads if I have the URL.

I agree, as long as we're only talking about wrong-section moderation. Obviously porn and offensive content should be deleted.

DaenDec 16, 20142 votes

I agree, as long as we're only talking about wrong-section moderation. Obviously porn and offensive content should be deleted.

Disclaimer: My perspective, not necessarily representative of others'.

There are two types of offenses on a discussion board, boiling things down to their essence; hard offenses and soft offenses. Posting porn and directly breaking rules like flaming someone are hard offenses, posting in the wrong place or other mistakes are generally soft offenses.

Hard offenses are always hard, the content needs to be completely removed from the platform. Soft offenses generally start with soft punishments, such as moving or locking, but can become subject to hard punishments with repeat infractions.

In no way would I ever advocate soft punishments for hard offenses. From my perspective, posting clear over-the-line pornography (for example) would result in the moderator deleting the content and issuing a temporary ban, no questions asked. The temporary ban also comes with a flag, and if that user ever does something similar again it's a permanent ban. When it's not quite so blatant, the content would be deleted and a warning would be issued to the user. A subsequent offense would be a temporary ban, and a third would be a permanent ban.

Basically, my perspective on moderation is equal parts lenient and strict. I think there needs to be a gradient; mistakes can be made without any fear (to a point), but intentional or egregious offenses are very swiftly and harshly dealt with. GD is a good example of what I don't like to see from moderation, and I'll explain that.

In General Discussion, people are consistently annoyed at/in disagreement of the moderation policy. The moderation rules are too strict on mistakes, so you end up with situations where a moderator can come in and delete an entire conversation for being slightly over the line, even if the community wants to be discussing the topic.

Part of this is the fact that the moderation rules aren't quite tuned correctly, but (imo) a more significant part is that there isn't a punishment gradient. If a moderator addresses content, it's deleted. No alternatives. The absolute baseline way of addressing content is too strict, and it removes a lever for accurately calibrating moderation action.

Hyrum GraffDec 16, 20141 votes

Quality feedback. Hope Tamat and Pen take it to heart. < 3

edit: whaaaaat? < 3, without the space between, just disappears.

BayynDec 16, 20142 votes

the cream will always rise to the top - thus the value of forums derives from its usage, and the contributors that actually try to make a difference.

IforgeswordsDec 22, 20142 votes

hoe about buying better servers and stop running on windows 95 riot?

DaenDec 22, 20142 votes

How about offering actual constructive commentary rather than making misguided and blatantly false statements?

kaiyouskeDec 16, 20141 votes

Yeah I kind of given up posting since most of these players have their heads so far up Riot's %#@ that they just find ways to 'justify' Riot's faults. There's no point really.

In the end it's Riot's board, Riot's game so their rules or the highway. Heil Hitler!

Hyrum GraffDec 16, 20143 votes

{quoted} In the end it's Riot's board, Riot's game so their rules or the highway. Heil Hitler!

Did you seriously just compare Riot to hitler?

Excerpt from link (wikipedia):

There are many corollaries to Godwin's law, some considered more canonical (by being adopted by Godwin himself)[3] than others.[1] For example, there is a tradition in many newsgroups and other Internet discussion forums that once such a comparison is made, the thread is finished and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically lost whatever debate was in progress.[8] This principle is itself frequently referred to as Godwin's law.