Zeke Herald needs some spice

King Odin·Apr 26, 2015·19 votes·2,165 views

+250 health +20% cooldown reduction UNIQUE: Nearby allied champions gain +20 attack damage and +10% life steal. (1100 Range)

I have not seen this item built since season 4 preseason. Not by top laners nor supports, I personally think that it needs a little buff, maybe some more health so it's more viable for top laners or possibly point runner. I don't personally know what exactly would be best but hopefully you all can think of something :)

Edit: I played Shen support in ranked just now and built it after my , I got to say it's an amazing item if you have the right team for it. We had and me as . Let's say between the 10% life steal and +20 dmg and my Ult and we were unkillable. Even benefitted from the lifesteal enough.

Though it was a good item I still feel as if it needs more.

( Edit ) http://grabilla.com/0541a-1dcc3bfe-d02a-45af-be04-997ebc3250c1.png

31 Comments

GooberpApr 26, 20158 votes

When I support, my major issue with Zeke's is that it has too much CDR. It's a great niche item, but to be a niche purchase it needs to give 10% CDR so you can fit it into the third/fourth purchase on a support, where they typically will have 5-10% from runes and masteries, 10% from gold item, and 10-20% from Grail/Crucible/Morello's/Locket. For those cases where you buy Crucible or Locket, giving you 25-30% CDR, Zeke's would be a great addition in specific team comps, but you waste 5-10% CDR, making it not worth the cost.

I would personally buy Zeke's a lot more often if it gave 10% CDR and had more defense stats, either higher HP or a meager amount of armor/mr. Lowering the cost as compensation instead of redistributing stats would be unacceptable, as it's already very slot-inefficient.

ParessApr 26, 20152 votes

Zeke soon removed i guess

Because new Black Cleaver will give more AD, more HP, same CDR

It is the easy way for Riot like Atma, Executioner's Calling, Soul Shroud ... RIP, they both had nice potential ...

VenowolfApr 26, 20153 votes

What about turn into the Abyssal Scepter AD version:

Zeke Herald item 3050

Brutalizer + Vampire Scepter + 363g (total cost 2500g)

Stats +40 attack damage +10% life steal +20% cooldown reduction

Aura Unique: Reduces the armor of nearby enemies by 10 (700 range).

Can be a good item to AD Caster too.

kile147Apr 26, 20151 votes

item 3071 Kinda already fills this niche, and the armor reduction would have to be higher than 10, maybe 20 to be worth it.

AviousApr 26, 20154 votes

I don't think it's supposed to provide alot of damage. It's actually one of the few AD utility items.

VenowolfApr 26, 20151 votes

Again this same asnwers O_o

AviousApr 26, 20151 votes

Lol no idea what's going on here.

VenowolfApr 26, 20152 votes

Its armor flat penetration not %armor pen, the flat armor its better to squishy targets andd the %armor pen to the tanky also its an aura of armor reduction so everyone near are affecyed, every Allie that uses a simply ato attack are benefit on this, 20 of flat armor pen its too strong and toxic because everyone can uses auto attacks, remember ARMOR is not the same like the MR, because the spells have mana and cd, the AD dmg are always avaible via auto attacks, so every auto attack are benefit of this aura and a simply change of 20 on flat pen can be very nocive.

AviousApr 26, 20151 votes

I don't think it's supposed to provide alot of damage. It's actually one of the few AD utility items.

VenowolfApr 26, 20152 votes

The item need to be oriented to the AD Caster, so need stats atrractive to them, they don't need chunks of HP, they need stat that help to increase his burst potential. Also flat armor pen is different than % armor pen.

VelasanApr 26, 20153 votes

I can fix it.

Add both spell vamp and life steal to the item. This gives the support sustain, but still makes it good for heavy AD teams looking to capitalize on the passive aura.

If you asked me why is it built less? Well as an avid support player right now I'm building a lot of the items that can help push out a wave (zzrot portal ftw). These items take precedence over a niche item that may help IF I have the gold resources and the right team. Been playing bard a lot just because I love the champ and his concept. Although he's actually pretty decent now, and he gets really nice upgrades on his meeps when you collect enough charms.

That's probably just me though, been playing him since release even when he was bad. Bard

ZirzonApr 26, 20152 votes

Needs some spice? I suggest cinnamon!

blueberrypancakeApr 26, 20151 votes

#Legendary

Earl EulrichApr 26, 20152 votes

I believe Sk rushed it on their jungle-nunu with a double AD-comp during the Eu Semifinals... As you said, with the right composition it´s really still an awesome item - but i´d like to see them reduce the cdr to 10% and buff the health. There´s so much CDR on every goodamn support-item anyway, if you want to stack some of them you seldom can buy a zeke´s without overcapping.

megagnuraApr 26, 20151 votes

I remember the old days when for lifesteal you could build bloodthirster or this....

I still build BT item 3072

King OdinApr 26, 20151 votes

Used to be a core item on Nasus back in the day. It was so annoying going against a Nasus with +10% life steal 20% CDR and +20 Damage. Made him a living nightmare, not sure why people stopped building it :/

kDrakariApr 26, 20151 votes

Probably because Nasus gets 30% CDR from Frozen Heart + Spirit Visage, and wouldn't really get bonus use from the aura while splitpushing. Not sure if it was those items that were changed to be better, Zeke's which was changed to be weaker, Nasus who was changed to benefit from different builds, or the meta that shifted and caused one of those things to happen indirectly, but I don't really see it replacing either of those items, being bought when pretty much all it's CDR would be wasted (as well as much of the aura a lot of the time), or a meta shift that makes teamfighting with multiple AD champions better than splitpushing for Nasus.

Not sure what they could do to make it viable outside of a heavy AD team without making it OP in one, and without removing its current identity. In a comp with a lot of AD the support should probably buy it eventually (don't want to take up a slot on a main damage dealer that could have a better item) but full AD has problems itself and Zeke's Herald doesn't fix them or even help much.

What it COULD do is add MAGIC damage to every auto attack in the aura, which would get around some of the armor stacking without needing to be built on a main damage dealer. Not sure how much damage that should be to be useful enough in high AD comps but avoid becoming core in every single game, but I think it might have more potential to find that sweet spot than the current version.

HedønistApr 26, 20151 votes

If anything all I think it needs is a buff in the hp over only 250 then we will probably see it being built more often

KrevikApr 26, 20151 votes

Apparently you didn't watch game 5 between Liquid and Impulse in the Spring Split Playoffs last week...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGijbPI4PJ0

(In case you don't actually want to watch it, IWillDominate built Zeke's to help out their double-AD comp.)

King OdinApr 26, 20151 votes

That's one game though, just because pro's do it doesn't mean it's necessarily good general item.

KrevikMay 1, 20151 votes

You're right, it's not a good general item. It's a niche item. If it were a good item for solo laners, then the aura would make it godlike-OP. So they leave it as a secretly-OP-in-certain-situations-but-not-most-of-the-time (aka niche) item. For comparison, most good junglers/supports recognize the value of an Aegis when the enemy has 2+ AP carries. A good AD or tank jungler/support/(top?) should build Zeke's if they've got 2+ AD teammates, but you're right, it doesn't happen enough.

Fun math: Aegis costs 1900, and the stats on the buyer alone are worth 1603 (84% gold efficient). For every ally the aura benefits, its value goes up by 670, for a max of 2680 (225% gold efficient). Zeke's costs 2450 and is worth 2590 to the buyer alone (106% gold efficient). The aura is worth 1270 for each ally it benefits, so Zeke's maxes out at 7670 (313% gold efficient). Granted, your mid LeBlanc won't care about the extra AD/LS, but even benefiting just two teammates takes Zeke's gold efficiency up to 209% (almost as much as a maxed out Aegis).

I don't think the problem is that Zeke's is a weak item, but that people forget how good it can be in certain comps.

LilxPaprikaApr 26, 20151 votes

Check out this suggestion: http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/KH2sj6Av-item-lets-you-sustain-as-though-you-dealt-true-damage-active

Or this one: http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/x0mXfN8F-another-solution-to-tank-meta-buff-zekes-herald

Stats +300 health +20% cooldown reduction +25 ad +5% life steal Aura UNIQUE: ~~Nearby allied champions gain +20 attack damage and~~ +10% life steal. (1100 Range)

RouterSmiterApr 26, 20151 votes

we were unkillable.

u died a total of 8 times?

ChickenWrapApr 26, 20151 votes

It's not built often because it's a niche item that's only good if you have two heavy hitting auto-attack based characters on your team.

It's fine right now, but it could always go for an upgrade that gives it more health.

Buttigieg 2020Apr 26, 20151 votes

The problem with zekes is that it has a ton of hidden power. If it gives too many stats it can cause problems (Ie: getting 1 shot by a zed who somehow has 300 ad with only two long swords).

IcyPepperApr 26, 20151 votes

I like it on supports like Janna with adc's like Vayne who rush botrk (10% lifesteal isn't quite amazing yet, but 20% during the early game can be quite the bitch especially against poke comps).

It Hertz When IPApr 26, 20151 votes

It's an excellent item in ARAM. Not every item has to be optimized for SR.

XyrneApr 26, 20151 votes

Top laners aren't going to bother building an aura item because they don't realize they have a team for the first 30 minutes, and supports aren't going to bother with it unless they're on a 3-4 AD team. Even then they have to sacrifice one of their more useful CDR items like athene's or FH.

They should just rework it. Would like to see it combined with or synergize with item 3504 somehow. Which is in a similarly useless position, on top of only being a viable option on like 4 supports, but at least it doesn't suck up 20% CDR.