Support itemization

ThePartyLeader·Jan 3, 2016·2 votes·370 views

Does anyone remember when supports had multiple item build paths they could take? Even if you go all the way back to heart of gold you had choices. Now even if you are Braum, if you don't take FQC you put your team at a serious disadvantage. Even if you made the coin speed boost global and targons active cleanse in addition to its sheild I'm not sure if they would be on par with FQC.

Best of luck to everyone in 2016

Edit Including that FQC as a first build item has a 60% win rate in plat diamond, masters, and challenger solo queue and over 60% win rate in plat and diamond ranked 5s.

8 Comments

Teridax68Jan 3, 20162 votes

Back when HoG existed, it was also pretty much the only viable item for supports, particularly since at that time support "itemization" amounted to little to no permanent items and a bottomless supply of pink wards, all purchased on absolutely minimal income. Right now, we have three different support item lines, and Preseason 6 added many more sightstone upgrades, so even if those items aren't that amazing right now they still offer far more diversity than before. I agree FQC might be crowding out other item lines right now, but that's a temporary balance issue, not a fundamental flaw with support itemization as a whole.

ThePartyLeaderJan 3, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Back when HoG existed, it was also pretty much the only viable item for supports, particularly since at that time support "itemization" amounted to little to no permanent items and a bottomless supply of pink wards, all purchased on absolutely minimal income. Right now, we have three different support item lines, and Preseason 6 added many more sightstone upgrades, so even if those items aren't that amazing right now they still offer far more diversity than before. I agree FQC might be crowding out other item lines right now, but that's a temporary balance issue, not a fundamental flaw with support itemization as a whole.

Just to be argumentative I remember philo stone being pretty good along with kill lane supports going dorans items. Right now your kill lane supports such as Brand and Annie also get the best utility item possibly in the game. Chasing someone? Pop spooky ghost Being chased? Pop spooky ghost Don't want to face check? Pop spooky ghost Want to do an objective but have no vision on enemy team? Pop spooky ghost and find out exactly where they are.

I could be wrong and I apologize if I sound like a jerk I don't intend to. I just don't see how it is balancable as a core item on supports without decreasing multiple of these factors range, the slow amount, the vision it grants, and that it seeks out people you can't see.

Teridax68Jan 3, 20161 votes

This is not the first time a support item has ended up far more popular than its competitors. When the support item lines were released, FotM earned its namesake by providing far too much ally healing, something tank supports innately lack, while also executing minions on ranged attacks, meaning even marksmen were getting Relic Shield in lane because the item line could produce so much gold. ToA got way overpicked for even longer because it was far too safe for the power it offered, and until very recently FQC was actually a pretty mediocre item. Right now, the item's too popular mainly because of its massive mana regen at a time where many mages are feeling mana-hungry, which is why the item is being picked in mid lane and is getting its regen slashed on the PBE, and because its 4-second active slow is a bit too generally good, as you mentioned, which is why the duration is also being changed to scale with distance (it goes down to 2 seconds at short ranges, so you can't pin down enemies for long in most of the situations you mentioned, but can go up to 5 seconds if you pick someone off from maximum range). In any case, these items have a ton of balance levers for when they're too strong, and since none of the current actives and passives overlap that much in function, there's not that much design tweaking that would need to be done to bring them in line either.

ThePartyLeaderJan 3, 20161 votes

{quoted}

This is not the first time a support item has ended up far more popular than its competitors. When the support item lines were released, FotM earned its namesake by providing far too much ally healing, something tank supports innately lack, while also executing minions on ranged attacks, meaning even marksmen were getting Relic Shield in lane because the item line could produce so much gold. ToA got way overpicked for even longer because it was far too safe for the power it offered, and until very recently FQC was actually a pretty mediocre item. Right now, the item's too popular mainly because of its massive mana regen at a time where many mages are feeling mana-hungry, which is why the item is being picked in mid lane and is getting its regen slashed on the PBE, and because its 4-second active slow is a bit too generally good, as you mentioned, which is why the duration is also being changed to scale with distance (it goes down to 2 seconds at short ranges, so you can't pin down enemies for long in most of the situations you mentioned, but can go up to 5 seconds if you pick someone off from maximum range). In any case, these items have a ton of balance levers for when they're too strong, and since none of the current actives and passives overlap that much in function, there's not that much design tweaking that would need to be done to bring them in line either.

I agree there is a lot they can tweak on it and the pbe nerfs are something. I am just skeptical that they are enough when the item has no counter play besides never being alone within a couple thousand units of the enemy team and engages almost as good as a malphite ult if a team is kiting.

Aeolian MelodiesJan 3, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Just to be argumentative I remember philo stone being pretty good along with kill lane supports going dorans items. Right now your kill lane supports such as Brand and Annie also get the best utility item possibly in the game.

Philo stone was only good after many nerfs because it upgraded into Shurelya's Reverie (Talisman's predecessor) which was the only finished item a support was ever able/allowed to purchase.

Philo + HoG + Mobis + WARDSx100 + Oracle's Elixirx10 was the average support build Shurelya + HoG + Mobis + WARDSx100 + Oracle's Elixirx10 was the build for the rich support

No matter who they were.

SUCH VARIETY.

When it came to S3 it was the worse, item 2049 was an absolute must rush, more wards meant more item 2043 and Oracle's, so basically supports build SS - Philo - Mobis - then just spammed wards, pinks, and Oracle's. Weren't even allowed/able to finish Shurelya or get Aegis.

Tank supports such as Leona were a rarity because they could not itemize properly as tanks and just became a free kill if they didn't stomp (or they did build tank and their team lost due to the lack of Shurelya + vision + vision denial).

The kill lane supports could not even exist at a non-scrub lvl because Brand with 0 item is useless.

ZT XperimentorJan 3, 20161 votes

Yeah, I've not been fond of these changes for supports over the last season; sightstone gets cemented as a core item without buffs due to normal wards being removed. But actual support items like; ardent censer, banner of command, & zeke's get nerfed for no reason.

Aeolian MelodiesJan 3, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=ZT Xperimentor,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nxZqm1rg,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-01-03T15:41:20.147+0000)

Yeah, I've not been fond of these changes for supports over the last season; sightstone gets cemented as a core item without buffs due to normal wards being removed. But actual support items like; ardent censer, banner of command, & zeke's get nerfed for no reason.

item 3504 got only buffs since release item 3060 nerf makes in most games changes nothing item 3050 armor got nerfed so it was less attractive to tank supports who weren't really the "target audience"

ZT XperimentorJan 4, 20161 votes

Censer got it's buff removed from alistar's heal because apparently 3 people were abusing that, which is a nerf; more to alistar than anything, but clearly a waste of riot's time. What? And yeah zeke's is an example of riot's lies; "strategic diversity", some one needs to give them a dictionary & thesaurus.