Last Whisper Vs. Infinity Edge against High Armor

Rap Juice·Mar 19, 2015·1 votes·2,001 views

Purely measuring the items, not including attack speed and/or any other stats the efficiency in the following situation is such:

Cost of Infinity Edge: 3800 gold + Cost of Last Whisper: 2300 gold (so we will add B.F. Sword for 1550 gold) total 3750 gold

Vs a champ with 200 armor the champ will take 1/3 normal damage (100/(100+200))

with Infinity Edge a crit will do 66 damage ((80 x 2.5)/3) a non crit will do 26.4 damage (80/3)

with Last Whisper + B.F. Sword a normal hit after armor reduction + armor ignore will do 61.2 damage (90 x 0.68)

now calculating in 100 hits for critical chance (of items only)

Infinity Edge: 20 crits @ 66 dmg per hit = 1320 dmg 80 non-crits @ 26.4 dmg per hit = 2112 dmg 3432 dmg total Last Whisper + B.F. Sword: 100 non-crits @ 61.2 dmg per hit = 6120 dmg total

Making the Infinity Edge only 56% as efficient against a foe with 200 armor.

25 Comments

Fizz is not FishMar 19, 20153 votes

IE makes your other AD item more efficient. You cant calculate like this.

Rap JuiceMar 19, 20151 votes

You can calculate however you want :) The fact that LW makes other items more efficient is completely irrelevant to comparing the efficiency of items. Its more about comparing whether or not its more efficient to build pure damage with armor ignore vs armor than it is to build improved critical strike damage and chance with some damage vs high armor.

SmokingPuffinMar 19, 20153 votes

It doesn't seem like a useful analysis. You will always have both.

Hell WeekMar 19, 20151 votes

{quoted}

It doesn't seem like a useful analysis. You will always have both.

i know right, im over here like uhmm what if i get both....

Hell WeekMar 19, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hell Week,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nwo65qlB,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2015-03-19T08:16:31.922+0000)

i know right, im over here like uhmm what if i get both.... and a ghostblade... might as well be like "uhh let's compare a and a because we're only going to stick with one the whole match derpy derp." - with homer simpsons voice

Rap JuiceMar 19, 20153 votes

{quoted}

It doesn't seem like a useful analysis. You will always have both.

You will always have both? That's implying that you start out with LW and IE. Hmmm I'm pretty sure you don't start with any items. The game is linear, you might have both at the end of the game or the middle of the game, but you're going to have to buy one before the other.

Your statement doesn't seem like a useful statement, because you won't always have both.

SmokingPuffinMar 19, 20151 votes

The question you are asking never occurs in a real game. There is no reasonable situation where you will be debating buying IE or (LW+BF) against a target with 200 armor.

When I say "you will always have both" I mean that "by the time they have 200 armor, either you aren't facing this decision, or you already lost the game".

PhifeMar 19, 20151 votes

TL:DR so people with autism can read pls.

Oh, and thank you.

Poptart EvelynnMar 20, 20151 votes

{quoted}

TL:DR so people with autism can read pls.

Oh, and thank you.

I could read perfectly fine...

LoRdJeSuS6969420Mar 19, 20151 votes

I think your math is off. With LW, a 200 armor target is reduced to 130 armor, which means they only take 43% of the original damage (200 armor meant they took 33%). So, with LW + BF it would be 90 x .43 = 38.7, and IE would be doing (80 + (.2 x 1.5 x 80)) x .33 = 34.32.

Still slightly in favor of the LW + BF, but not nearly as much.

Also, in regards to the previous comment--LW also makes your other AD items more efficient, so it should be irrelevant.

Fizz is not FishMar 19, 20151 votes

LW passive: 30% bonus dmg when enemy have 200 armor. IE passive : 0.2*1.5=30% but it will be more if you have another critical item

EDIT: PD+LW: 1.3*(1+0.351)-1=75.5% PD+IE: 0.551.5=82.5% they have same AS.

KirbyCakeMar 19, 20151 votes

thats because his math is off, you are correct and the OP is just looking like an idiot who hasn't even passed grade school.

increasing ad doesn't change the calculation, but increasing critical strike chance should, put in a phantom dancer (actually you need 2 PD) and IE should be better.

other things to consider, LW increases damage on physical damage spells while IE doesn't, nobody is going to have 200 armor early game so IE is most certainly the correct thing to rush over LW.

Rap JuiceMar 19, 20151 votes

{quoted}

thats because his math is off, you are correct and the OP is just looking like an idiot who hasn't even passed grade school.

increasing ad doesn't change the calculation, but increasing critical strike chance should, put in a phantom dancer (actually you need 2 PD) and IE should be better.

other things to consider, LW increases damage on physical damage spells while IE doesn't, nobody is going to have 200 armor early game so IE is most certainly the correct thing to rush over LW.

I actually just passed Calculus II but whatever you say :)

Please though, show us your calculations, you obviously know what you're talking about genius.

KirbyCakeMar 20, 20151 votes

your calculations show that you don't even know what expected value is, which is an algebra II concept.

let me ask you a simple question about continuity if you have actually taken calculus.

let f(x) = 1/q where x = p/q in most simplified terms if x is rational 0 if x is irrational

where is this function continuous?

here is another simple question.

take cantors set, this means removing opening intervals of thirds on [0,1] repeatedly an infinite number of times.

create the CDF of cantors set from [0,1] it's flat almost everywhere and spikes up at uncountable many infinite points.

take the derivative and then integrate it. this function is continuous, but however you do not get the same function back.

the fundamental theorem of calculus states that you should get the same function back whenever you take the integral of the derivative of a continuous function, whats wrong here?

this next question is so simple, if you can't answer it i would literally give you a 0 in class cause you couldn't even understand limit.

take a right triangle with side lengths x and y and diagonal z.

start from 1 point of the diagonal. to get to the other point of the diagonal you can go through side x and then side y. the total distance is x + y.

alternatively, you can travel x/2 distance, then travel y/2 distance, then go x/2 distance, then y/2 distance all in right angles to get to the other point. the total distance is x + y.

you can travel x/4 then y/4, then x/4, etc. to get to the other point.

keep doing this infinitely with smaller steps, the limit converges onto the diagonal. therefore the diagonal z is actually length x + y.

what is wrong with the argument here.

Zair UmbrasMar 19, 20151 votes

Why must we leave out the initial % we get from masteries? It wants some love too. QQ

Rap JuiceMar 19, 20151 votes

Because this is a comparison purely of item efficiency.

Zair UmbrasMar 19, 20151 votes

Considering it gives 6% and when tied with a LW, which is 35%, it doesn't give you 41%, it gives you 39%, which means it gives a lot less ArP than what it says if you have the masteries, which matters quite a lot, even if you're only just comparing the two items. Basic scenarios must be used to calculate this kinda stuff otherwise you're using numbers that are only useful prior to like, level 20.

Rap JuiceMar 19, 20151 votes

This is the equation for damage multipliers vs armor: http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Armor

Its not Irrelevant, The game is linear, you don't get all of your items at once. This is relevant to a decision whether or not to buy Infinity Edge or Last Whisper first, but overall its purely comparing the two items' efficiency vs armor, nothing more.

DisasterSolaMar 19, 20151 votes

Armor doesnt work as %mitigation. It works as EHP.

This means that by just buying last whisper, youre permanently reducing their EHP by 35%. that EHP loss is almost always a much higher amount than another 80AD.

Let me just make an example: 5IEs (100% crit)+BT = 480AD. Lets say base AD is 120. that means you deal (6002.5) 1500 damage per hit. 5IEs+LW = 440AD. Same base. that means you deal (5602.5) 1400 damage per hit.

the difference between the two is minor, but LW takes off a MASSIVE amount of EHP. Like 25~35%.

Rap JuiceMar 19, 20151 votes

This is the damage multiplier equation for armor: Armor

LoRdJeSuS6969420Mar 19, 20151 votes

This is actually pretty interesting....

So basically I looked at the damage dealt per attack with either IE or LW given varying amounts of armor and varying amounts of base AD (basically AD that you already had before you bought either the IE or the LW/BF). Interestingly, the IE did seem to scale better with base AD than did the LW, for whatever reason.

It also seems that, for a pure auto attacker (since spells can't crit), it becomes more efficient to buy a LW over an IE at around 100-150 armor...but on the other hand, I think IE would also scale better with other crit chance items you have, so if you already have a crit chance (if you are tryndamere, for example) IE would remain superior up to an ever greater armor value.

vs. 300 armor with 0 base ad ie = 26 lw/bf = 30.6

vs. 300 armor with 200 base ad ie = 91 lw/bf = 98.6

vs. 200 armor with 0 base ad ie = 34.32 lw/bf = 38.7

vs. 200 armor with 200 base ad ie = 120.12 lw/bf = 124.7

vs. 100 armor with 0 base ad ie = 52 lw/bf = 54.9

vs. 100 armor with 200 base ad ie = 182 lw/bf = 176.9

vs. 50 armor with 0 base ad ie = 69.68 lw/bf = 67.5

vs. 50 armor with 200 base ad ie = 243.88 lw/bf = 217.5

Head ConnoisseurMar 19, 20151 votes

Last Whisper or Infinity Edge?

http://cdn.meme.am/instances/250x250/60304012.jpg

Rap JuiceMar 19, 20151 votes

No one ever said one or the other. You can buy both at once though, provided you kill a champion and are magically awarded 6100 gold all at once.

Head ConnoisseurMar 20, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Rap Juice,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nwo65qlB,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2015-03-19T20:23:58.456+0000)

No one ever said one or the other. You can buy both at once though, provided you kill a champion and are magically awarded 6100 gold all at once.

I see now that my humor was not appreciated here. Good day, sir.

LoRdJeSuS6969420Mar 19, 20151 votes

Once again, I'll point out that you math is just straight up wrong. LW + BF actually nets you 38.7 damage per auto against a 200 armor target (the number that you got, which is wrong, was 61.2).

The .68 multiplier that you used for the LW damage is where you went wrong. LW cuts 200 armor down to 130, making the multipler 100/(100+130) = 0.43.