Boards›Gameplay

Unpopular opinion : If laner dies, it is often their jungle's fault.

The Anivia OTP·4/22/2019, 7:02:51 PM·4 votes·3,490 views

This is a lessons for thoses jungle main that throw responsability for death to their laner. There are a few reasons why a laner dies and only one of them is 100% their fault

  • Geeting baited and dying.

that's it. that's all of it, you wanna know all the other reasons to die in lane ?

  • over extend......

you know what , i'm first going to explain what is the jungler's role. why do we have a jungler at all ? the reason is : "unpredictable danger". What makes a jungler being useful is that he can stop the enemy from taking action with "unconsiderate thinking".

the calculation should be "there is 50% their jungler is ready to gank my lane, and i can kill my opponent, but in 2v1 i will probably also die and give a nasty interruption, it's therefore not worth being agressive now" Lane pressure is something that is huge. a jungler that ganks a lot create a lot of lane pressure, this allow his laners to safely earn more gold.

If you don't gank a certain lane, you change that probability, and that have a negative impact on your laners. so what a jungler can do ?

farming gold in the jungle, Ganking a lane Counterganking a lane. Getting objectives counter jungling.

Counterganks are a very effective strategy against another junglers, this allows you to reduce the other jungler's impact and overall balances the lane pressure. The only time you can countergank and will not is when an objective like a turret or an epic monster is available. because you would use the jungler's gank as a distraction to get something better.

Counterjungling is the most effective of all. because not only are you reducing enemy jungler's pressure, but you also get gold yourself. but to counterjungler you have to gain lane pressure so you can safely go in enemy jungle without enemy laner able to retaliate So to counterjungle you have to gank.

Jungle is all about lane pressure, that's why this role is so hard if you do not contribute to lane pressure , if you have no reason what so ever, then you are doing a huge mistake (a reason is almost always somthing like : a gank is worth nothing , the other laner is maokai, and my laner is nautilus, ganking will not change pressure.)

Your jungle camps do respawn, and won't die if you are not killing them (unless someone kill them for you)

The HUGE majority of the time, when a lane is loosing, it's because the laner lost pressure and he is slowly getting pushed out of the lane, so he can't build damages/tankyness due to lack of gold, so he loose more pressure, so he is getting pushed out of the lane , loosing Hp due to poke, until the moment he DIES because he is trying to not die.

You have to gank that lane BEFORE he goes 0/25/0 that mean use your vision and especially YOUR CAMERA, watch your laner's hp and also enemy laner's. this gives you the most information about lane pressure.

But also watch minions.

If your laner is under his tower, has 25% hp and enemy has 50% hp and you don't gank you are doing a huge mistake but an even worse one is when your laner has 20% hp and enemy has near 100% hp and you are not ganking because that will mean your laner will die, yet i guess that gromp is better than not giving enemy 300 gold or a turret.

The only time you should be doing your camp is when your laners have an EVEN pressure or all your lanes have an ADVANTAGE. is that case you should be mirroring enemy jungler's movement so you countergank.

About 80% of death are due to loss of pressure and could be avoided by a simple gank, sometimes even just showing yourself around is sufficient.

When i play jungler i NEVER get that problem of people blaming on me that i never gank

Why ? because i do gank i do make sure the enemy jungler does not become too much of a problem

however, i don't want to be a jungler i want to be a midlaner, once and for all, i want that junglers understand that lane pressure is often 90% THEIR job, and if i die due to lane pressure and they decided that gromp was better than a gank to put me back on track they are the problem.

side note for you jungle folks : you cannot say "she is too fed , i can't gank now" because if she got fed,most of the time you have something to do with it (yeah you know , not understanding jungler's role and thinking you are here to have a smite, and not here to make a difference in lane pressure) when that happen ask your midlaner to help and go 1v3 on her lane at least.

edit 1: You don't have to be better than anyone else than the enemy meaning lowering enemy income is AS VIABLE as increasing yours And if the time you use to clean your camp for 160 gold is as long as the one required for stopping enemy from getting 300 gold and you still think the camp is worth it, i don't know what to do with you

edit 1.1: Wow this got downvoted to oblivion , thx bots.

50 Comments

WhyEvenBotherFR4/22/2019, 7:22:02 PM12 votes

You die...your fault. I'm not here to babysit you

Quáx4/22/2019, 7:14:39 PM8 votes

So if you're a top laner on red team. And we're doing gromp and then you die... it's our fault? Ok.

theChibiTina4/22/2019, 11:28:49 PM5 votes

You obviously don't know a whole lot about jungling. Counterjungling requires watching enemy junglers movements. Enemy jungler showed on a ward top or ganking top lane, clear their bot side jungle. However this means you should be playing a quick clearing jungler or only take something important like a buff or just the big wolf so the wolf camp doesn't level. Also, you don't gank a losing lane. Instead you snowball a winning lane. I don't even play jungle and I know this. Enemy jungler ganks top, either gank bot, get drag, or both. Even better if they're camping a lane then you can camp the opposite side and get the objectives there or counter jungle if you can. Sometimes you end up having to vertical jungle. Also, you can't be ganked by your jungler if you have no cc or are constantly pushed forward, however you can be repeatedly ganked by enemy jungler if you consistently push forward. Ganking a losing lane rarely results in positive outcome. If they're strong enough then they will just 1v2 you or they'll have their jungler nearby because they're winning so their jungler will want to be near to snowball the lane harder in which case you'll lose 2v2 instead.

Makarakarn4/22/2019, 11:51:57 PM5 votes

"Thanks downvote bots" Yeah nah that aint bots, you're just wrong.

y0r1ck4/22/2019, 8:46:57 PM3 votes

The junglers I often see commenting on boards seem to have a victim complex. Even saying it's sometimes their fault evidently triggers them. For some reason they're ignoring what op said about lane pressure and tunneling super hard on who's fault is what. Guys everybody makes mistakes, sometimes it is the jungler's fault a laner loses, sometimes it is a laner's fault a jungler loses. OP never said it's always the jungler's fault.

OP is saying that a large part of a jungler's is to apply pressure to lanes so that bad matchups or losing lanes don't get completely run over. He's saying a good jungler shows up in a losing lane to make the opponent think twice about diving/zoning/bullying a losing laner. I think OP is right. And seeing how none of the commenters have addressed the argument behind the topic, I think they agree as well.

Think of it this way. Top lane is Nasus vs Teemo.

If the dog's jungler never comes top, Teemo learns he can get up in the dog's face as much as he wants. Nasus is going to be unable to farm or stack, because the jungler didn't pressure teemo enough.

If the dog's jungler comes top once, or shows up on a ward near top lane, Teemo has to play safer and Nasus can farm and stack easier.

In any matchup in any lane. If the jungler completely ignores it, he gives the opponent free reign over the lane. If the jungler shows a readiness to help any lane, he forces the opponent to consider the jungler as a factor in any fight.

I don't think any jungler worth his salt can argue against that fact, so they choose to focus on the blame. Hence I think some of them have a victim complex.

@OP what did you expect? Honestly you should've seen this response coming.

Sebastit7d4/22/2019, 7:26:33 PM2 votes

What if it's a Xin Zhao and your jungler is playing something like Yi? Is your death also their fault? You also have the responsibility of playing accordingly to what Jungler you have. If you're playing say, pantheon and you're up against Nasus, but enemy jungler is Rek'sai and yours is Kindred you can NOT expect Kindred to stay on your ass if you get ganked and are low, you have to play accordingly, anything else is just an excuse. simple as that.

Dr Apathy4/23/2019, 6:21:16 AM2 votes

If i see you in any ranked game i will int you, literal nightmare of a toddler smashing his keyboard since you died solo while jungle doing drake... But his fault he isnt the teams 2nd support/bitch...

Saezio4/23/2019, 3:04:48 PM2 votes

Jungler has to gank the strong lane. Then the jungler TOGETHER WITH THE STRONG LANE can help the idiot that fed. That's the % play. You never gank a losing lane because if the enemy jg shows up the enemy gets double kill. You can only gank a losing lane if enemy jg is already dead and the other 2 lanes are on the map

If I lose a 160G camp to the enemy jungler thats a 320g swing.

Also, don't overextend without vision.Just stay under tower and get carried. Game is full of people that don't understand the concept of losing the minimum. Your lane doesn't matter if the other 2 are winning, just make sure you don't feed the enemy 24/7, have 50 cs less it's ok. You will get carried. It's not embarrassing. You might carry the next one. This one all you have to do is not be heavy as fuck

Sir Saltarin4/22/2019, 7:27:35 PM1 votes

Obviously, the game is a 5vs5 but on some games a dumb jungler makes it a 4vs5 and then wonders why his laners are dying.

church arson5/5/2019, 1:27:50 PM1 votes

You should probably focus on your own playing. You rarely exceed 2 KDA, which is quite awful for a level 154 gold player. Maybe focus on yourself being useless instead of junglers being shit.

Ödyssius3/2/2020, 4:32:39 AM1 votes

My god, I just read this post (I'm aware its 10 months old) and had to comment because these are literally the most frustrating players a jungler unfortunately ends up having in their lane. I literally read as far as the overextending bit and already knew this post wouldn't be worth reading.

I'd love a laner to realise how far a pointless gank puts us junglers behind (ganking a lane whilst their jungle continues to farm) and the fact that you don't think you should take responsibility for dying because you overextend is actually a joke. Why would ANY jungler stop farming to waste time trying to gank a lane where their team is forced under tower by our laner and even more frustrating is I can already guarantee you're the type of player who says shit like "jungle diff" and "their jungler ganked 5 times, you 0" and doesn't realise you're getting ganked because you're overextended ALL game.

A jungles role is to put ahead winning lanes and support losing lanes IF VIABLE, an overextended lane is NOT VIABLE.

Lastly, because I'm sure you're also the kind of person who loses lane and complains your jungler isn't securing neutral objectives (like drags, herald and baron).. A jungler cannot and SHOULD NOT contest a objective if neither of his lanes have priority, the only circumstance he should contest, is if he's FAR ahead and can make it out alive.

Being a jungler is all about probability.. Such as, what has the higher benefit for the team, a jungler farming and ganking lanes he knows he can get a kill/assist or trying to gank your lane when you've your laners you're against, forced under tower.

Just remember, before you flame a jungler, if you OVEREXTEND all game, to camp your lane and wait for them to push you back, wastes SO MUCH time, we don't sit in a lane and farm minions which come to us, we've to go to our camps and time spent sitting, waiting for you to make your lane viable for a gank puts us behind. It's OUR JOB to put you ahead, its YOUR job to setup your lane, to allow us to do so. Freeze your lane.

Rant over.