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Unpopular opinion : If laner dies, it is often their jungle's fault.

The Anivia OTP··4 votes·3,490 views

This is a lessons for thoses jungle main that throw responsability for death to their laner. There are a few reasons why a laner dies and only one of them is 100% their fault

  • Geeting baited and dying.

that's it. that's all of it, you wanna know all the other reasons to die in lane ?

  • over extend......

you know what , i'm first going to explain what is the jungler's role. why do we have a jungler at all ? the reason is : "unpredictable danger". What makes a jungler being useful is that he can stop the enemy from taking action with "unconsiderate thinking".

the calculation should be "there is 50% their jungler is ready to gank my lane, and i can kill my opponent, but in 2v1 i will probably also die and give a nasty interruption, it's therefore not worth being agressive now" Lane pressure is something that is huge. a jungler that ganks a lot create a lot of lane pressure, this allow his laners to safely earn more gold.

If you don't gank a certain lane, you change that probability, and that have a negative impact on your laners. so what a jungler can do ?

farming gold in the jungle, Ganking a lane Counterganking a lane. Getting objectives counter jungling.

Counterganks are a very effective strategy against another junglers, this allows you to reduce the other jungler's impact and overall balances the lane pressure. The only time you can countergank and will not is when an objective like a turret or an epic monster is available. because you would use the jungler's gank as a distraction to get something better.

Counterjungling is the most effective of all. because not only are you reducing enemy jungler's pressure, but you also get gold yourself. but to counterjungler you have to gain lane pressure so you can safely go in enemy jungle without enemy laner able to retaliate So to counterjungle you have to gank.

Jungle is all about lane pressure, that's why this role is so hard if you do not contribute to lane pressure , if you have no reason what so ever, then you are doing a huge mistake (a reason is almost always somthing like : a gank is worth nothing , the other laner is maokai, and my laner is nautilus, ganking will not change pressure.)

Your jungle camps do respawn, and won't die if you are not killing them (unless someone kill them for you)

The HUGE majority of the time, when a lane is loosing, it's because the laner lost pressure and he is slowly getting pushed out of the lane, so he can't build damages/tankyness due to lack of gold, so he loose more pressure, so he is getting pushed out of the lane , loosing Hp due to poke, until the moment he DIES because he is trying to not die.

You have to gank that lane BEFORE he goes 0/25/0 that mean use your vision and especially YOUR CAMERA, watch your laner's hp and also enemy laner's. this gives you the most information about lane pressure.

But also watch minions.

If your laner is under his tower, has 25% hp and enemy has 50% hp and you don't gank you are doing a huge mistake but an even worse one is when your laner has 20% hp and enemy has near 100% hp and you are not ganking because that will mean your laner will die, yet i guess that gromp is better than not giving enemy 300 gold or a turret.

The only time you should be doing your camp is when your laners have an EVEN pressure or all your lanes have an ADVANTAGE. is that case you should be mirroring enemy jungler's movement so you countergank.

About 80% of death are due to loss of pressure and could be avoided by a simple gank, sometimes even just showing yourself around is sufficient.

When i play jungler i NEVER get that problem of people blaming on me that i never gank

Why ? because i do gank i do make sure the enemy jungler does not become too much of a problem

however, i don't want to be a jungler i want to be a midlaner, once and for all, i want that junglers understand that lane pressure is often 90% THEIR job, and if i die due to lane pressure and they decided that gromp was better than a gank to put me back on track they are the problem.

side note for you jungle folks : you cannot say "she is too fed , i can't gank now" because if she got fed,most of the time you have something to do with it (yeah you know , not understanding jungler's role and thinking you are here to have a smite, and not here to make a difference in lane pressure) when that happen ask your midlaner to help and go 1v3 on her lane at least.

edit 1: You don't have to be better than anyone else than the enemy meaning lowering enemy income is AS VIABLE as increasing yours And if the time you use to clean your camp for 160 gold is as long as the one required for stopping enemy from getting 300 gold and you still think the camp is worth it, i don't know what to do with you

edit 1.1: Wow this got downvoted to oblivion , thx bots.

50 Comments

WhyEvenBotherFR12 votes

You die...your fault. I'm not here to babysit you

Malix Farwin1 votes

{quoted}

You die...your fault. I'm not here to babysit you

While i do not agree that its always the jg fault, its not always the top laner's fault either. If you've played top enough you knows theres bad matchups' easy snowball, and dives. Now in 90% of the cases when its a bad matchup the enemy jg abuses it and sits in the lane to the point where you are getting dived. Now if the jg isnt doing anything then top is just gone.

The Anivia OTP1 votes

So i guess, taking turrezt and not loosing yours that are located on lanes are not the way to win.

gromp4win i guess ?

WhyEvenBotherFR4 votes

Again...you die, your fault. Not my problem. You are not always my win condition, therefore I'm not going to baby you through a lane i'm sure you have played a 1000 times over. Get over yourself.

The Anivia OTP1 votes

but nasus IS their win condition. or any other late laner. it's not only putting your laners in good situation , it's putting their on BAD ONES.

If you are not here to balance the pressure , you are useless as a jungler

WhyEvenBotherFR2 votes

reread the statement above.

The Anivia OTP1 votes

your statement do not specify about the enemy again it's not only about giving your laners a lead but also making sure enemy doesn't get one

WhyEvenBotherFR2 votes

Reread statement.

The Anivia OTP1 votes

Reread statement above

WhyEvenBotherFR1 votes

You complaining doesn't make you right.

The Anivia OTP1 votes

Please point out the moment i was complaining ?

Because apart from simple explanations and logic , i see nothing else.

you just came and said "hey ye bad so i do gank bad people" i then explained that you jungler job is not only to put your teammates ahead but especially put enemy laners behind (or slow their progression) and then you never actually replied with an argument and think that you are right were you are just not arguing and being basically a very annoying person to ague with since you don't put effort in your message and think you can be right with biases and "common sense" that obviously is the indubitable truth , that's why we are CERTAIN Di-hydrogen monoxyde (DHMO) is DEFINITELY toxic right ?

you should see outside that little box around you and start using your brain to process what i'm saying, then understand the situation from my point of view, see why you are wrong from that view then see what view is the most realistic and accurate (hint for you : it's certainly mine)

Point is , if you only gank strong people , you're doing half the job and doing half the job mean that you have a huge impact on laner's death

It's like complaining that doctor cannot save patient that were not able to move to hospital by themselves and you just went "i'd save only the most likely one to survive, if you have under 10% chance of survival i'm not helping" ²²²²²²²²²² You're like rejecting a whole part of the game , not taking every occasion as it is , but rather thinking that if your laner dies you can't do anything about it and couldn't, that is reassuring , and i'm pretty sure it is too big of a cognitive dissonance for all people that disagree to overcome.

i'm not counting on other people to tell me what is true , i'm thinking it through, and you're gonna have a very hard time replying properly if you don't do the same. so please come back with an actual argument, trust me you're gonna become a better person , and if i'm wrong i'll be fine with it if you use actual examples and explanation.

WhyEvenBotherFR1 votes

Complaining pretty much the whole time begging us to blame a jungler when a jungler has more pressing concerns than babysitting a laner who believes he/she deserves it. Just because you put together a short essay to explain your perception of my thoughts or why you think you are right from your complaints doesn't make you any more wiser or gain you any respect. You still are whining. You are still wrong. Learn to 1v5 and take care of your own gameplay instead of pointing it at junglers.

The Anivia OTP1 votes

Sorry , can you specify , what "pressing concerns" mean to you ? afaik, jungler is part responsible for it

I'll simply explain to you why "deserving a gank" is useless ans often times a mistakes.

see it this way :

  • you can gank mid that plays very well and get a kill, opposinge players looses two waves, you laner gets ahead 300 gold , you get a 150 gold bonus

that mean you achieved to get a +650 total gold lead

  • You can gank bot to release some pressure, you won't get a kill , but your laner will then not die and earn back a wave this mean you avoided 300 gold gain on enemy team , and maybe around 50% of 3 waves that represents around 150 gold gained back, and about 1 wave on enemy side lost so 100 gold

-you would gain a 250 gold lead

these are two situations, let's imagine you woudl spend as much time on one than on another

Situation 1 : you gnak winning lane get a 650 gold lead mid , but 1 bot dies and that's 450 gold less Soi the total lead gained is 200 gold.

situation 2 you gank bot , but mid doesn't kil enemy , even imagining that they therefore stay even bot don't die, you get that mean you get the standards 250 gold

ho ? what happened ? how come you gain more by ganking bot ? well the reason is simple : When gankjing mid you're getting gold on someone already loosing, meaning you're not increasing gold lead THAT much whereas ganking bot you're increasing the gold lead a little less , but you're also reducing their advantage a little

and that create a BIGGER gap

and this game is all about being better than your enemy , not ganking loosing lane is far less effective than you imagine you probable underestimate lane pressure. And my example is a little flawed but in both way , by compensating mid you're acting on a far bigger grief.

the only time going mid would be worth it is on a countergank.

Quáx8 votes

So if you're a top laner on red team. And we're doing gromp and then you die... it's our fault? Ok.

The Anivia OTP2 votes

replace gromp by krugs if you are on redside, or any camp and yes if you went for gromp even tho your toplaner was vulnerable your are.

Quáx5 votes

You're delusional if you think that's how things work.

The Anivia OTP1 votes

You don't have to be better than anyone else than the enemy meaning lowering enemy income is AS VIABLE as increasing yours

And if the time you use to clean your camp for 160 gold is as long as stopping enemy from getting 300 gold

and still think the camp is worth it, i don't know what to do with you

Quáx5 votes

Our responsibility as junglers isn't to win you your lane THAT'S YOUR JOB. We provide aid if possible and if necessary. But if you lose lane 1v1 and you blame us for it, we will be less likely to help you. There are two other lanes other than yours. Anytime my top lane/bot lane is getting camped you know what you do, you don't go to help them, instead, you go to the opposite side of the jungle, take enemy camps and camp the other lane and get them ahead, its called priority. As a mid laner however I don't expect you to understand, you guys would rather spend your time not communicating and plucking out your eyes because whenever I call for help to a mid they just keep farming over, and over.

The Anivia OTP1 votes

The thing is , there is only 1 death needed to loose pressure, and from that point you start loosing more and more.

Most of the game happen on this scheme :

laner A loose 1v1 (often bad luck / lack of skill or something like that) then Laner A is weaker than Laner B So Laner B is abusing this advantage to create a bigger gap

Laner A can't do anything but tries to defend turret anyway Laner A dies Laner A is even weaker And so it goes on.

That's THE EXACT PROBLEM that very mentality is the problem " we will be less likely to help you if you loose" This is the very cause that transform 1 mistake into a 0/25/0 score

An no. not every jungler can countergank, because not every jungle is as effective at it as needed. if you can get 3 camps in enemy jungler over the span of a gank then YES. but that is the only time, and i highly doubt sejuani can do that. or even lee sin or kha zix.

also that priority , you have to use it to help top not always to get a lead , but to get enough pressure for enemy to not 1v1 then getting your turret immediately.

Also , sometimes , just showing up then going back is an effective method. you keep the pressure yet you dont loose much time.

but i don't see junglers doing that often.

Ambitious Minnow2 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Anivia OTP,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=np3gNxkI,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-22T22:15:18.095+0000)

You don't have to be better than anyone else than the enemy meaning lowering enemy income is AS VIABLE as increasing yours

And if the time you use to clean your camp for 160 gold is as long as stopping enemy from getting 300 gold

and still think the camp is worth it, i don't know what to do with you

Funny every time I hear this in game, it's from someone who couldn't leave their lane for five seconds to tilt the entire game in a good direction, because "I can't miss cs" and stood there like a potato every time I make them a play that isn't between the two towers.

The Anivia OTP1 votes

leaving a lane means often letting enemy get some hit on your turret.

that's the real problem here

and if you have to leave lane every time you're low.... just try it , and watch your turret loose HP like crazy and probably loose game.

playing safe =/= not playing at all

The thigh guy4 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Anivia OTP,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=np3gNxkI,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-04-22T19:18:36.851+0000)

replace gromp by krugs if you are on redside, or any camp and yes if you went for gromp even tho your toplaner was vulnerable your are.

Wow. I think I actually just lost the last of my brain cells reading this. Holy shit.

theChibiTina5 votes

You obviously don't know a whole lot about jungling. Counterjungling requires watching enemy junglers movements. Enemy jungler showed on a ward top or ganking top lane, clear their bot side jungle. However this means you should be playing a quick clearing jungler or only take something important like a buff or just the big wolf so the wolf camp doesn't level. Also, you don't gank a losing lane. Instead you snowball a winning lane. I don't even play jungle and I know this. Enemy jungler ganks top, either gank bot, get drag, or both. Even better if they're camping a lane then you can camp the opposite side and get the objectives there or counter jungle if you can. Sometimes you end up having to vertical jungle. Also, you can't be ganked by your jungler if you have no cc or are constantly pushed forward, however you can be repeatedly ganked by enemy jungler if you consistently push forward. Ganking a losing lane rarely results in positive outcome. If they're strong enough then they will just 1v2 you or they'll have their jungler nearby because they're winning so their jungler will want to be near to snowball the lane harder in which case you'll lose 2v2 instead.

The Anivia OTP1 votes

that thinking you have is the exact REASON why inting sion , proxy singed or spiltpushing in general is so effective.

YOU FORGET THAT ENEMY EXIST IN THINK. the purpose of ganking is not only to get your laner a little more lead, it's also to not LOOSE things to them.

Gank bot : enemy loose 10 golds , you earn 300 gold. Gank loosing top, toplaner earn 100 gold from cs, enemy laner earn 300.

What is wrong with you guys ? What part of being better than enemy is the problem with you. who care if i have 50cs at 30 minutes if i made sure enemy laner has 3 cs ?

Your jungle is a constant gold outcome, just like getting minions, that's what you should be doing when you are not adjusting lane pressure.

I don't tell you to gank 24/7 But if by 10 minutes you havent paid every lane a visit, you are actually a garbage worthy jungler.

and i tell you , i can recall gold jungler that havent ganked my lane by 17 minutes (17 for god's sake) but i never saw a diamond+ jungler that have not ganked every lane by 9 minutes.

Because the better you are as a jungler, the more likely you are to impact the game by always adjusting the pressure.

WHo did put in these players head "you don't gank a loosing lane" The only time that is true is when enemy laner is dying in 1v1 because he is reckless. and even then, you might want to take some farm that would be lost and defend turret instead of doing nearby camps.

Gank these laners... How many times can i recall myself playing camille top vs urgot and my jungler NEVER ganking , so i'm dying over and over again under my own turret , then loosing the game where a single gank would have allowed me to just get the farm i need to oneshot botlane.

Also , every game i won easily as anivia are game i play to stomp enemy laner under his turret, and jungler not ganking.

I'm the most surprised of all, because i am overextending like a bitch-bird yet , their jungler avoid actively mid and then is surprised that i can hold my lane in 1v4 when they try a 4 man gank.

The thigh guy3 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Anivia OTP,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=np3gNxkI,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2019-04-22T23:50:07.890+0000)

that thinking you have is the exact REASON why inting sion , proxy singed or spiltpushing in general is so effective.

YOU FORGET THAT ENEMY EXIST IN THINK. the purpose of ganking is not only to get your laner a little more lead, it's also to not LOOSE things to them.

Gank bot : enemy loose 10 golds , you earn 300 gold. Gank loosing top, toplaner earn 100 gold from cs, enemy laner earn 300.

What is wrong with you guys ? What part of being better than enemy is the problem with you. who care if i have 50cs at 30 minutes if i made sure enemy laner has 3 cs ?

Your jungle is a constant gold outcome, just like getting minions, that's what you should be doing when you are not adjusting lane pressure.

I don't tell you to gank 24/7 But if by 10 minutes you havent paid every lane a visit, you are actually a garbage worthy jungler.

and i tell you , i can recall gold jungler that havent ganked my lane by 17 minutes (17 for god's sake) but i never saw a diamond+ jungler that have not ganked every lane by 9 minutes.

Because the better you are as a jungler, the more likely you are to impact the game by always adjusting the pressure.

WHo did put in these players head "you don't gank a loosing lane" The only time that is true is when enemy laner is dying in 1v1 because he is reckless. and even then, you might want to take some farm that would be lost and defend turret instead of doing nearby camps.

Gank these laners... How many times can i recall myself playing camille top vs urgot and my jungler NEVER ganking , so i'm dying over and over again under my own turret , then loosing the game where a single gank would have allowed me to just get the farm i need to oneshot botlane.

Also , every game i won easily as anivia are game i play to stomp enemy laner under his turret, and jungler not ganking.

I'm the most surprised of all, because i am overextending like a bitch-bird yet , their jungler avoid actively mid and then is surprised that i can hold my lane in 1v4 when they try a 4 man gank.

Litteraly everything you’ve just said is wrong. Ever bit of it.

The Anivia OTP1 votes

Also , every game i won easily as anivia are game i play to stomp enemy laner under his turret, and jungler not ganking. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrh66K5-Tgc that irelia of course did NEVER need her jungler

she won't blame elise that i was never ganked up until that point.

When you want to say someone is wrong, you have to explain Back up contradictions with argument please

The thigh guy4 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Anivia OTP,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=np3gNxkI,comment-id=0005000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-23T00:12:03.085+0000)

Also , every game i won easily as anivia are game i play to stomp enemy laner under his turret, and jungler not ganking.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrh66K5-Tgc

that irelia of course did NEVER need her jungler

Okay? So I’m going to use your logic here. You’ve never won a game. Because only junglers can win games. So every win you’ve ever had, you had no role in because your jungler was the only one who has a role?

The Anivia OTP2 votes

jungler are a far more important factor in the game then laners. the best laners can do is getting turret or kills.

Better jungler win is a thing. a good jungler can make an attentive bronze play against a diamond and make the bronze player win the game.

HE make the difference by spreading his power over the entire map.

That is far more effective.

The thigh guy3 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Anivia OTP,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=np3gNxkI,comment-id=000500000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-23T00:33:11.926+0000)

jungler are a far more important factor in the game then laners. the best laners can do is getting turret or kills.

Better jungler win is a thing. a good jungler can make an attentive bronze play against a diamond and make the bronze player win the game.

HE make the difference by spreading his power over the entire map.

That is far more effective.

Okay. Let’s say this is true. And you have no bearing in games.

Why are all 200 slots in challenger not junglers?

The Anivia OTP1 votes

Let's the the top 10 EUW :

Solo queue : #1 -> midlaner #2 -> jungler #3 -> support #4 -> ADC #5 -> ADC #6 -> midlaner #7 -> Midlaner #8 -> ADC #9 -> ADC #10-> ADC

Flex queue : #1 Main riven/leesin (let's say top tho) #2 jungler #3 mid #4 top #5 supp #6 jungler #7 Jungler #8 Jungler #9 adc #10 jungler

So basically , i wonder why jungler are that much present on flex , and so

Hmmmm An now among solo queue top 100 Challenger , how many junglers ? 16 And flex top 26 ? 15 (that is basicaally more than 50% of players being main jungle.)

why are they THAT present in flex queue and so little in solo queue. ho i know , in flex people play together , where in solo queue, players play for themselves

Maybe you should investigate , don't you think ? how much ganking and being present makes you impactful rather than play with selfishness

The reason why most adc and mid win , is because when coordination is lacking (you know ganking an stuff) they thrive, because no one goes to stop them.

When you can ask help for jungler with your voice , he is less afraid to gank and therefore has a huge impact ont he game.

The thigh guy2 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Anivia OTP,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=np3gNxkI,comment-id=00050000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-23T12:15:52.119+0000)

Let's the the top 10 EUW :

Solo queue : #1 -> midlaner #2 -> jungler #3 -> support #4 -> ADC #5 -> ADC #6 -> midlaner #7 -> Midlaner #8 -> ADC #9 -> ADC #10-> ADC

Flex queue : #1 Main riven/leesin (let's say top tho) #2 jungler #3 mid #4 top #5 supp #6 jungler #7 Jungler #8 Jungler #9 adc #10 jungler

So basically , i wonder why jungler are that much present on flex , and so

Hmmmm An now among solo queue top 100 Challenger , how many junglers ? 16 And flex top 26 ? 15 (that is basicaally more than 50% of players being main jungle.)

why are they THAT present in flex queue and so little in solo queue. ho i know , in flex people play together , where in solo queue, players play for themselves

Maybe you should investigate , don't you think ? how much ganking and being present makes you impactful rather than play with selfishness

The reason why most adc and mid win , is because when coordination is lacking (you know ganking an stuff) they thrive, because no one goes to stop them.

When you can ask help for jungler with your voice , he is less afraid to gank and therefore has a huge impact ont he game.

Wooooooow. It’s almost like coordination helps jungler. Who would have guessed.

Flex que is not average play, so nice Job cherry picking.

theChibiTina4 votes

You can gank a lane that's even or barely losing. You don't gank a lane that is hard losing. The reason being because you'll get 1v2 or worse 2v2ed and then they go get objective. Instead you gank another lane that is winning and snowball them harder so they can win lane and move into losing lane's lane and push there while the person who lost lane can go and farm and get caught up. That's why you gank a winning lane. The harder you can snowball a lane the more room it gives for the losing lane to get caught up when the snowballed lane starts roaming and applying more pressure else where. That's why I don't mind if my jungler doesn't gank me if they're snowballing another lane cause even if I'm getting camped, I know how to play back and play safe while the other lane gets snowballed and can eventually come roam and help me out. Also there's part of your problem. "Stomp under turret" means you're consistently pushed forward. Most junglers would prefer you let them push so they can come up behind them and collapse on them which will either force flash or result in a kill. You don't want to gank a lane that's pushed forward because it's considerably harder to get something out of.

The Anivia OTP2 votes

the thing is , Not every jungler can get objective that easily , and even there, they cannot 3 v 2+drake so your botlane will be far enough to stop them.

Also not every laner start roaming , and not every lane shoudl roam. And also , playing safe means using all your ressources to save you and keep your famr up. not every champion can do that (fiora for instance cannot) not doing anything is worse thand dying.

you can't just let them take every bit of you lane. that's how snowballing works. ganking a winning lane should be a thing only if there is a clear reason to it ( countergank) otherwise , it's just dumb cuz instead of making sure your enmey can't win. you're trying to push it forward even more. and unless they don't have a win condition, that's dumb.

somtimes enemy laner is freezing his lane and zone you out.

he is not under your tower. you just can't reach minions without dying.

Loosing a lane is far more than being under tower.

theChibiTina4 votes

You're aware that after tower falls, you're supposed to rotate. This is so you can spread your strength elsewhere and the losing lane can go farm and defend. Also you're supposed to try and get objectives when you have a successful gank. If you can't get the neutral objective then you at least get some turret plates. So if you 3v2 bot and win then you either get drag if able or get turret plates if not. The whole point of ganking a winning lane is to make them that much stronger. If he's freezing in a bad spot and you're not hard losing then you can be ganked. If you're hard losing though then the enemy is likely strong enough to 1v2 especially now that junglers can barely keep up in xp with bot lane. So you might as well stand just within xp range and only cs when under tower if you're getting zoned that badly and he's at the point of being able to kill you for trying while a winning lane gets snowballed into being able to carry. The best thing you can do when you're losing is play safe and not feed. As long as you aren't feeding then the snowballed lane can carry. When I play mid, if I lose lane then I just play back and ping if my laner goes missing. I don't beg for ganks because I know that it won't help. Especially if my enemy laner can 1v2 and will only get fed more if my jungler tries to gank. Dying is worse then getting zoned because you can't even try to defend if you're dead. At least if you're alive then you can try to defend and just cs under turret. You aren't always going to win lane and that's fine. Sometimes you just got to hold out for your winning lanes.

Makarakarn5 votes

"Thanks downvote bots" Yeah nah that aint bots, you're just wrong.

The Anivia OTP1 votes

35 votes in 6 minutes ... https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/65573926/hmmmmm.jpg

Makarakarn4 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Anivia OTP,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=np3gNxkI,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2019-04-22T23:59:59.628+0000)

35 votes in 6 minutes ... https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/65573926/hmmmmm.jpg

Yeah, not hard. You know how many use this board lol?

y0r1ck3 votes

The junglers I often see commenting on boards seem to have a victim complex. Even saying it's sometimes their fault evidently triggers them. For some reason they're ignoring what op said about lane pressure and tunneling super hard on who's fault is what. Guys everybody makes mistakes, sometimes it is the jungler's fault a laner loses, sometimes it is a laner's fault a jungler loses. OP never said it's always the jungler's fault.

OP is saying that a large part of a jungler's is to apply pressure to lanes so that bad matchups or losing lanes don't get completely run over. He's saying a good jungler shows up in a losing lane to make the opponent think twice about diving/zoning/bullying a losing laner. I think OP is right. And seeing how none of the commenters have addressed the argument behind the topic, I think they agree as well.

Think of it this way. Top lane is Nasus vs Teemo.

If the dog's jungler never comes top, Teemo learns he can get up in the dog's face as much as he wants. Nasus is going to be unable to farm or stack, because the jungler didn't pressure teemo enough.

If the dog's jungler comes top once, or shows up on a ward near top lane, Teemo has to play safer and Nasus can farm and stack easier.

In any matchup in any lane. If the jungler completely ignores it, he gives the opponent free reign over the lane. If the jungler shows a readiness to help any lane, he forces the opponent to consider the jungler as a factor in any fight.

I don't think any jungler worth his salt can argue against that fact, so they choose to focus on the blame. Hence I think some of them have a victim complex.

@OP what did you expect? Honestly you should've seen this response coming.

The Anivia OTP1 votes

yeah , i think that most people , because they didn't do a thing , they think they must have NO responsibilities you know just like most people throw responsibilities onto other people when someone is being agressed IRL.

Most people don't realise that they are responsible if they could have done something but decided to not do anything and ignore it.

the laner might be responsible for some death but at one point he can only trad his life to protect his tower.

many think therefore that they had nothing to do with laner dying where they do, their past choice did have an impact.

I don't want jungler to be 24/7 ganking , but in between jungle camps, showing that you are ready to gank , not even ganking at all is sufficient to adjust that pressure. it reduce their income JUST a little but increase their laner's income by a lot and reduce the enemy's

I saw that response coming , but hearing the junglers arguing that "everything is wrong" without putting themselves in doubt is annoying.

i wonder why no one ever complain that i'm not ganking nor does the junglers i've trained (one reached diamond 3 horray) I really think , most low tier jungler , even on plat do not acknowledge this, and therefore are complaining about something they are responsible for. just like people complaining about donald trump being president yet they have not voted.

Sebastit7d2 votes

What if it's a Xin Zhao and your jungler is playing something like Yi? Is your death also their fault? You also have the responsibility of playing accordingly to what Jungler you have. If you're playing say, pantheon and you're up against Nasus, but enemy jungler is Rek'sai and yours is Kindred you can NOT expect Kindred to stay on your ass if you get ganked and are low, you have to play accordingly, anything else is just an excuse. simple as that.

Sir Saltarin2 votes

That's why OP has said that sometimes it is the junglers fault when a lane is lost, key word is sometimes, he's not blaming all on the jng, he's saying that sometimes the blame rightfully is on the jungler which is truth.

Eedat3 votes

They didn't say they say that at all

it is often their jungle's fault.

only one of them is 100% their fault

The Anivia OTP1 votes

Often means that sometimes it's completely their fault

usually when the laner tries dumbs 1v1 over and over again and looses them with no help whatsoever from enemy jungler

that's the only situation i can come with where jungler could not do a single thing.

Dr Apathy2 votes

If i see you in any ranked game i will int you, literal nightmare of a toddler smashing his keyboard since you died solo while jungle doing drake... But his fault he isnt the teams 2nd support/bitch...

The Anivia OTP1 votes

That will be hard to int me knowing i play on euw

What is that mentality buddy ?

Saezio2 votes

Jungler has to gank the strong lane. Then the jungler TOGETHER WITH THE STRONG LANE can help the idiot that fed. That's the % play. You never gank a losing lane because if the enemy jg shows up the enemy gets double kill. You can only gank a losing lane if enemy jg is already dead and the other 2 lanes are on the map

If I lose a 160G camp to the enemy jungler thats a 320g swing.

Also, don't overextend without vision.Just stay under tower and get carried. Game is full of people that don't understand the concept of losing the minimum. Your lane doesn't matter if the other 2 are winning, just make sure you don't feed the enemy 24/7, have 50 cs less it's ok. You will get carried. It's not embarrassing. You might carry the next one. This one all you have to do is not be heavy as fuck

Sir Saltarin1 votes

Obviously, the game is a 5vs5 but on some games a dumb jungler makes it a 4vs5 and then wonders why his laners are dying.

church arson1 votes

You should probably focus on your own playing. You rarely exceed 2 KDA, which is quite awful for a level 154 gold player. Maybe focus on yourself being useless instead of junglers being shit.

The Anivia OTP1 votes

the point of that thread is not for ME to improve, i appreciate that you took time for some background research, however

I actually play jungle to , but when i play as a jungler i see why my laner died, and i never really blame them for it , because often times i could have stopped that.

i want junglers to stop focusing on themselves and think about their allies as people doing their best with a few dumb move

I know that most of the time it's my fault too , i know i could have done something , but as the jungler did , i did not, they have a certain responsability into it.

and more specifically these times the jungler decides to NOT gank this is the worst.

Ödyssius1 votes

My god, I just read this post (I'm aware its 10 months old) and had to comment because these are literally the most frustrating players a jungler unfortunately ends up having in their lane. I literally read as far as the overextending bit and already knew this post wouldn't be worth reading.

I'd love a laner to realise how far a pointless gank puts us junglers behind (ganking a lane whilst their jungle continues to farm) and the fact that you don't think you should take responsibility for dying because you overextend is actually a joke. Why would ANY jungler stop farming to waste time trying to gank a lane where their team is forced under tower by our laner and even more frustrating is I can already guarantee you're the type of player who says shit like "jungle diff" and "their jungler ganked 5 times, you 0" and doesn't realise you're getting ganked because you're overextended ALL game.

A jungles role is to put ahead winning lanes and support losing lanes IF VIABLE, an overextended lane is NOT VIABLE.

Lastly, because I'm sure you're also the kind of person who loses lane and complains your jungler isn't securing neutral objectives (like drags, herald and baron).. A jungler cannot and SHOULD NOT contest a objective if neither of his lanes have priority, the only circumstance he should contest, is if he's FAR ahead and can make it out alive.

Being a jungler is all about probability.. Such as, what has the higher benefit for the team, a jungler farming and ganking lanes he knows he can get a kill/assist or trying to gank your lane when you've your laners you're against, forced under tower.

Just remember, before you flame a jungler, if you OVEREXTEND all game, to camp your lane and wait for them to push you back, wastes SO MUCH time, we don't sit in a lane and farm minions which come to us, we've to go to our camps and time spent sitting, waiting for you to make your lane viable for a gank puts us behind. It's OUR JOB to put you ahead, its YOUR job to setup your lane, to allow us to do so. Freeze your lane.

Rant over.

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