People mix up Toxic and OP a lot.

CreationFlaw··2 votes·584 views

Or is that just my opinion? I hear a lot of people raging about how insert champion is toxic and needs to be nerfed ASAP, but then I look at the stats for the champion and find they're quite average. Now, for me, this is MY opinion, Nidalee, Vladimir, and Swain are toxic champions to play against, because if you make one wrong move, you get punished so severely that you either die or have to back, or after you combo them and try to walk away, they heal up 2/3 of your damage and chunk you for for most of what you just did.

And yet that's the point, that's the theme behind them at times. Sure, it's hell to go against, but you have to deal with it. Sure, you probably can't 1v1 them, you don't need too. (Unless you're an assassin, then you're kind of fucked, sorry bby.) You have a team, use that to your advantage. If you're in mid lane and nothing is really happening, and you're a champion that's viable to roam, you roam. You get your team and yourself fed through other means, and you make sure to keep tabs on the champion that was in your lane so you can make sure they don't roam.

8 Comments

kile1472 votes

Jinx Probably OP because she wins more than she loses and seems to have some pretty powerful stats, but nothing about her is inherently anti-fun. Leblanc is toxic because whenever she is the slightest bit viable people hate on her vehemently, mostly because a single mistake can cost you massive chunks of health, your life, your lane, and possibly your game, whereas her mistakes are easily rectified.

1000angrybees1 votes

That's a very good example of the difference between 'this can be a challenge to lane against' and 'this champ isnt fun to lane against'

Malix Farwin1 votes

{quoted}

Jinx Probably OP because she wins more than she loses and seems to have some pretty powerful stats, but nothing about her is inherently anti-fun. Leblanc is toxic because whenever she is the slightest bit viable people hate on her vehemently, mostly because a single mistake can cost you massive chunks of health, your life, your lane, and possibly your game, whereas her mistakes are easily rectified.

jinx is very unfun to lane against

kile1471 votes

Really what part? I'm asking honestly here. Her rockets don't give her much more poke than someone like Cait and cost mana. Her chompers are usually used to cover escapes, though if you get caught by a lockdown support then they could spell trouble (but is really support reliant), and her Zap is really telegraphed and is basically a chasing tool, which isn't that effective in lane.

Crett1 votes

Katarina

banthor111 votes

Counterplay and toxic are buzzwords that Riot loves to use a lot to explain away any changes they make to champions. Toxicity isn't always OP, it tends to refer to a playstyle or lane dynamic created by the champion that runs strongly counter to normal gameplay in an unhealthy way. Also, toxicity is rather rare these days despite what people say. You can see a bit here and there but nothing even remotely close to what true toxicity looks like.

Good examples would be the old Proxy Singed strategy of farming minions inside the enemy nexus using the fact that after a number of deaths you became worthless to kill so engaging you created a lose-lose scenario in which whether they engaged you or not your team and minions were rapidly pushing down towers and advancing on their base.

Old,OLD heimerdinger had super long range rockets on a 20 second coodown that would hit every enemy champion within a wide radius (think poke wars now but there was a guy who could effectively nid spear your entire team without missing every 15ish seconds).

Evelynn could go fully invisible and her first attack on someone when she came out of stealth would stun that person for like 2 seconds.

Shaco... OH lord, Shaco. He could start a game with deceive and a red elixir and a page full of crit damage % and 2 shot someone for 1st blood every game because he was getting normal 200% crits with it right out the gate (i think 2-shiv poison had a blind maybe too?).

Exhaust and cleanse made flash look like a joke even though it was like 50% longer range back then. Exhaust blinded the target and cleanse at one point gave 1-2 seconds of CC immunity I believe.

And Xin Zhao was the stuff of legends on his release.... I mean I can't even describe that horror. It was almost as if your only way to win a game against a Xin Zhao player that was half-decent was to have one on your team too.

Now, I'm not dismissing that there are obnoxious or unfun champions to play against. Those certainly exist and most definitely need looked at for those very reasons. I'm simply stating that as time has gone on the community (and even Riot sometimes) has gotten into the habit of throwing such words around without having a proper basis of what truly lacking counterplay or being toxic looks like.

Edit: Almost forgot about Jax dodging tower shots.

NoMonku1 votes

The main reason champions like Vladimir and Swain are so OP is because people don't take ignite. If you aren't taking healing debuffs against regen champions... well you are just helping set them up to succeed.

Also, yes people do mix up terms because they don't really understand what they mean, I think it just makes them feel they are giving a good argument by using big words. I personally feel that Poppy is toxic because her early game blows, making it incredibly frustrating to have her on your team, but IF she is able to reach her late game, you can't do ANYTHING to stop her from killing you, making it very frustrating for the enemy team.

CreationFlaw1 votes

{quoted}

The main reason champions like Vladimir and Swain are so OP is because people don't take ignite. If you aren't taking healing debuffs against regen champions... well you are just helping set them up to succeed.

Also, yes people do mix up terms because they don't really understand what they mean, I think it just makes them feel they are giving a good argument by using big words. I personally feel that Poppy is toxic because her early game blows, making it incredibly frustrating to have her on your team, but IF she is able to reach her late game, you can't do ANYTHING to stop her from killing you, making it very frustrating for the enemy team.

Kalista, this person is somebody I find toxic to go against. She can be shut down, but if you're playing a melee champion, even with a gapcloser, if you don't have super burst or hard cc on a short cooldown, you'll be hard pressed to escape or kill her. That's her design, and so many people hate it.

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