-0.4 base hp regen, kassadin is balanced guys!!!

shabingi··59 votes·16,371 views

why even nerf the champion at all? havent seen a champion get a real nerf in about 6 months.

62 Comments

After3perma37 votes

Cos it the same people that did 0.25 Zoe, -3AD Graves and -5MS Irelia.

BoilTheOil17 votes

-3 ad graves was a decent nerf

SwiftKitten8810 votes

{quoted}

-3 ad graves was a decent nerf

i keep hearing that but honestly, i dont see how... so it takes him 1 more shot per camp? ok... he already has a knockback.

and if Ad change that small is REALLY much better on him than every other champs because how his pellets work, then a item like item 1036 with even 10 AD with much more more effective on him than anyone else so he would crazy OP.

dont get me wrong when they deleted celerity rune and i lose my 8 extra AP i need to pounce at least 1 extra time per camp.. and this increase my clear speed by ~20 seconds

but thats only even and issue becuase thats 20 more second of me taking damage as a squishy champ which already has a horrible clear

Graves barely even takes a hit becuase of his knockback. and has a stupid easy clear

and he gets extra armor on top of that... so i really dont see how losing 3 AD was that much.

i understand the slower clear time.. but your not taking extra damage.. your not losing dueling potential... and you're not a champion that is easily invaded.

i understand thats is a nerf but and becuase of his pellets it affects him . i still think you guys are making out to be more than it is.

AND the fact that HIS NERF was actively directed at nerfing him.

AirKingNeo15 votes

1-2 more shots to kill a camp would be a lot.

You clear like 3-4 camps first clear. That's 3-6 more shots. Toss in reload time and you hinder clear by a few seconds, whcih matter for junglers.

SwiftKitten885 votes

{quoted}

1-2 more shots to kill a camp would be a lot.

You clear like 3-4 camps first clear. That's 3-6 more shots. Toss in reload time and you hinder clear by a few seconds, whcih matter for junglers.

... belive me i get that...

but compare that to how nidalee was nerfed...

Nidalee lost 2 % winrat in almost every elo because an indirect nerf which wasnt even targeted toward her.

this increased her clear time by quite a lot.

but unlike Graves, Nidalee has a HARD to first clear... she takes a LOT of damage. she donest have extra armor... and the nerf also hit how much she heals for in addtion to her damage... making it even harder to surive..

graves may have a slower clear yes... but that nerf was targeted and directed at nerfing him.. and ALL it really did was slow his clear. as he takes pretty much no damage from camps anyways becuase of the knockback

nid got hit with a nerf that not only slowed her clear.. but also made her takes more damage from the camps, lessened the amount she could heal. significantly weakened her first gank, and already very bad ability to contest scuttle.

and all of this wasnt even SUPPOSED to hit her... it was a celerity nerf targeted toward ADC's

i understand that -3 AD on gravs probaly hurt a lot more than -3 ad would hurt other champs...

but lets be real here Graves is till above 50% winrate in every elo and he NEEDED the nerf

Nidalee only BARELY reach 50% for the top 2% of players in diamond +

where she is still not even in the top 10 junglers

and in every other elo she is damn near the bottoms with her hardest counters in the jugnler also being the best junglers out there.

so yeah i hear you that the -3 AD affected graves.. but he needed it... nid didn't

nid was in a very balanced at the time state considering her large winrate differential between elos.

she couldn't afford to lose that winrate

IOnlyNeedOneShot1 votes

I don´t know what you´re talking about.

Graves literally lost 3% winrate and about 15% pickrate over the course of the post nerf patch.

SwiftKitten881 votes

{quoted}

I don´t know what you´re talking about.

Graves literally lost 3% winrate and about 15% pickrate over the course of the post nerf patch.

you dont know what im talking about? have you tried READING what im writing?

my point is graves was nerfed becuase it was decided by riot that he needed a nerf.. now i didnt patch much attention to how much winrate he lost, so i will have to take your word for that.

but like i said graves we nerfed becuase he was OP and he NEEDED to nerf.. and even AFTER the nerf he remains in a pretty good spot. above 50% in every elo

Nidalee on the other hand... was BALANCED... she was NOT OP.. and she was NOT targeted by a nerf... she was hit completely indirectly. nidalee also.. unlike graves has a very hard and dangerous clear that gets her very low. and this nerf also affected how much she can heal for AFTER she takes damages.. nidalee didnt really loseas much "pickrate" becuase she wasnt being picked by people who couldnt play her very well jumping on the "op champion" bandwagon looking for free wins.

the ONLY thing the "TARGETED" Graves nerf hit was his clear SPEED. it barely had any affect on him in any other way becuase of his + armor and knockback that makes it hard for camp to hit him

the INDIRECT Nidalee nerf, also hit nidalee in terms of clear speed the difference i am pointing out.. is that... unlike Graves nid not onyl didnt need the nerf... and not only did i increase her clear time by a similar amount that the graves nerf did

nidalee also... now takes more damage... heals less damage. has a harder time contesting scuttle, has weaker ganks.

and this also isn't something that goes away " graves lost 3 ad" at lvl 1 yeah well.. by lvl 11 there is goign to be really no difference. nidalee on the other hand... lost a ratio that also increased as she levels up and got movement speed items like t2 boots and item 3100

my point is... your TARGETED nerf hit u in ONE area.. and your champion even AFTER said nerf is still is a better stat than mine was even BEFORE she got nerfed.

were as my champion whom was indirectly nerfed, not targeted and not even intended to be nerfed by this. was hit in like 5 more areas than your champion was.. in addition to receiving the same clear speed increase.

and yet.. YOUR champion was ACTUALLY OP. YOUR champion was actively and intentionally being nerfed by riot.. and even AFTER that nerf your doing absolutely fine.

my point is "losing 3% or not" your STILL at 50+% winrate in every damn elo.

and your are saying "oh it was a huge nerf"

NO IT WASN'T.

a huge nerf is something that makes u champion trash for everyone outside of the top 2%.. and even in the top 2% a bad pick a huge nerf is something that isk maybe isnt DESERVED.

my point is... your over reacting to a nerf that u NEEDED and are active as if " it was a big deal". when in reality.. it didnt NERF your champion into a bad state... it actaully bad them mostly balanced but still on the strong side.

my point is... you need to get some perspective on what u consider a "big nerf"

Rathar Dashing6 votes

I hate it when people take the smallest part of a nerf and make it seem like that's all Riot did. Zoe didn't get nerfed by 0.25 seconds, she got nerfed by 1/1/0.75/0.5/0.25 per rank, which hurt the early game a lot, and in the same patch they nerfed Unsealed Spellbook by 10%, and nerfed three other inspiration runes.

3TWarrior1 votes

did it though? her burst is still insanely high if you get hit even once...and most of it is true damage

Rathar Dashing1 votes

"Most of it is true damage" That's not accurate. The "true damage" she deals is mitigated by MR, because it's based off the damage the ability that popped the sleep did. And even if it was true damage, it's less than half of the damage of one of her 4 damaging abilities.

It affected her at the time, she still needed a lot of change to get to the relatively balanced state she's in now.

Slythion2 votes

{quoted}

Cos it the same people that did 0.25 Zoe, -3AD Graves and -5MS Irelia.

-3AD on graves was actually significant, although you're right about the rest

Séance24 votes

Sejuani If you haven't haven't seen a real nerf in 6 months you haven't been paying much attention

Voeglein14 votes

or Yorick

Infernape4 votes

OMEGAOrnn

TheSymbolÔfPeace3 votes

https://www.surrenderat20.net/2018/12/1213-pbe-update-even-more-tentative.html

Ornn: Unstoppable duration lowered from 3.5 seconds to .75 seconds

I found a nerf but for the wrong champion [zombie-brand-clap]

ApollyonBainer1 votes

[{quoted}](name=little smurf row,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nBrXPEWh,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-12-13T22:29:17.878+0000)

Sejuani If you haven't haven't seen a real nerf in 6 months you haven't been paying much attention

Right? And people were saying she was bad before. LOL

Dracocrash17 votes

-0.4 base hp regen makes it easier to poke kassadin down at early levels.

Let's say 30 seconds are occurring between every trade.

Now, kassadin recovers 2.4 less HP per 30 seconds of trading. This adds up at early levels, especially pre level 6. Makes it easier to force him base, deny CS and shut him down before he reaches his late game spike.

It's a good starting nerf. If kassadin continues to be OP/oppressive even after these changes I'm sure riot will swoop in with more tiny nerfs untill they hit the point on kassadin.

I HIGHLY PREFER small calculated changes over big changes that cascade a champion into unviability/perma ban status.

EDIT: It's not a math error. the numbers on PBE refer to Hp regen/s not hp regen /5.

shabingi11 votes

12 per 30 seconds, 24 per minute, 240 per ten minutes.

240 hp in 10 minutes, thats like damage from 1.5 abilities over 10 minutes. that does absolutely fuck all. buy another potion and your good. maybe having a blink on a 1.8 second cooldown while being able to output 2k burst is an issue.

Dracocrash3 votes

{quoted}

12 per 30 seconds, 24 per minute, 240 per ten minutes.

240 hp in 10 minutes, thats like damage from 1.5 abilities over 10 minutes. that does absolutely fuck all. buy another potion and your good. maybe having a blink on a 1.8 second cooldown while being able to output 2k burst is an issue.

Like I said, late game this does fuck all. But early laning its significant

The "one potion difference" is huge early game which is the best time for ranged mages to poke kassadin down with abilities and auto attacks either denying him cs/exp or outright killing him.

I'm not saying this change is going to completely balance kassadin, but it's not as insiginificant as you think.

shabingi1 votes

ok so from minute 2 to minute 6, about 96 hp? 1 ability over 4 minutes? still not seeing that as significant. maybe it will lower his winrate from 55% to 54.5%? basically nothing. at this rate it will take about 3 months to get kass to a reasonable point. they buffed this champion to try to force him into worlds meta, but decided not to revert after worlds.

3TWarrior1 votes

if it's 0.4 hp per 5...it's basically nothing and even if it's per second, that's only 2 hp per 5 seconds

it would take 150 seconds to even recover from one of the weakest abilities at that amount

Gilgayu9 votes

Completely agree with you. Small changes that bring down the winrate by 1/2% are much better than gutters that make tier 1's into tier 4's.

Kassadin isn't even that bad to begin with. He doesn't have a passive if the enemy mid laner is ad (talon, zed, aatrax...). Champions like fizz, akali, and LeBlanc can also kite him with ease.

He barely has any damage pre-6, and his power spike is really around 3 items when his damage can actually be classified as an assassin...

If he gets fed, though, things get out of hand pretty quickly.

mlm olo mlm1 votes

{quoted}

-0.4 base hp regen makes it easier to poke kassadin down at early levels.

Let's say 30 seconds are occurring between every trade.

Now, kassadin recovers 12 less HP per 30 seconds of trading. This adds up at early levels, especially pre level 6. Makes it easier to force him base, deny CS and shut him down before he reaches his late game spike.

It's a good starting nerf. If kassadin continues to be OP/oppressive even after these changes I'm sure riot will swoop in with more tiny nerfs untill they hit the point on kassadin.

I HIGHLY PREFER small calculated changes over big changes that cascade a champion into unviability/perma ban status.

Is this already considering hp regen is over 5 seconds?

0.4 / 5 = .08 hp per second

.08 * 30 seconds = 2.4 health.

PB4UAME1 votes

The regen values are in terms of hp regenerated per 5 seconds. -.4 base hp, means that over 5 seconds, they regenerate .4 less hp. Or 2.4 less per 30. . . not 12.

Dracocrash2 votes

{quoted}

The regen values are in terms of hp regenerated per 5 seconds. -.4 base hp, means that over 5 seconds, they regenerate .4 less hp. Or 2.4 less per 30. . . not 12.

Nope. Its per second.

Kassadins HP regen at lvl 1 is 8/5s. Which means 1.6/s On Pbe they changed it from 1.6/s->1.2/s.

http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_champions/Health_regeneration

Which means his health regen after PBE changes would be 6/5s.

King Lego11 votes

Placebo effect? I guess?

Wait is that an actual "change" riot is adding to Kassadin? [zombie-brand-mindblown]

SpaceRazzerKappa8 votes

Riot's balance team dosent seem to know what a nerf is a nerf is something that makes the champion weaker to a point which is notisable not 0.4 hp regen....

Cloud2732 votes

{quoted}

Riot's balance team dosent seem to know what a nerf is a nerf is something that makes the champion weaker to a point which is notisable not 0.4 hp regen....

I'm sure it will have an effect in higher ELO's but most people won't really notice it.

Arammus3 votes

LOL RIOT DOESNT STOP

at first it was fun then it was to insult riot but now it actually makes me mad. they dont stop they keep spitting in our face

Bisaknosp2 votes

ahri wasnt even near to being as problematic as he is right now and got +20 sec ult cd at rank 1 xd?

Ahrï NineTails1 votes

{quoted}

ahri wasnt even near to being as problematic as he is right now and got +20 sec ult cd at rank 1 xd?

Honestly very true. Ahri does have quite a few weaknesses that people just seem to ignore

TheMysticWar1 votes

I really hope that isn’t the final nerf

The thigh guy1 votes

Man. I remember when riot gave malzahar a 5 ms nerf too see if it would tone him down when he was opaf. Then the next patch GUTTED his ass. Still waiting for that to happen to Irelia and Kassadin now.

Monstermushmush1 votes

Hillarious. Riot's balance team is actually trolling us.

Nevrankroaton1 votes

It is not a bad nerf by any mean tho... I don't see why people act like it will do nothing.

FéliXXX1 votes

its preseason there is a lot of stuff going on maybe they want to wait and see how it goes in s9 and work on him just remember the -5 ms on irelia then they nerffed her again.

Lady Hammerlock1 votes

The nerf is decent, but it really only hurts him early game where you can easily bully him without much resistance.

Not saying it's enough, but definitely nothing to sneeze at.

Zeyphel1 votes

1/5 of total hp BASE regeneration overall. Of course, it is not like it is going to affect his laning or anything...

Plus the previous ap nerf to FF. It wasn't intended to affect Kassadin at all...

-Also, the same ones complaining say that graves -3 BASE AD nerf was a joke... And then people wonder why RG doesn't take boards seriously.

3TWarrior1 votes

one auto attack per camp is about 4 seconds maximum or if he does an entire rotation, 12 seconds

it would slow him down, but not affect the reason he does so well as a jungler: full health clears and high burst damage/durability when he gets to lane along with his smokescreen making it impossible to target anything outside of it...

The23rdGamer1 votes

I'm not trying to say Kassadin doesn't need a larger nerf but chances are Riot is trying to make pretty conservative changes for 8.24b since it is a patch that will be up for such a long time due to the various holidays in late December. (And also a lot of people are on break from school and work then so you could imagine more people might have to chance to be online playing?)

I imagine that may be the reason for such a conservative nerf, but that's just my hunch.

Dope Solo1 votes

Yasuo ---> Has never been balanced. https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Yasuo/Middle/

Top Yasuo's Worldwide 57.72% Win Rate 48.04% Ban Rate

Analyzing 2299 games played by the top 401 Yasuo players worldwide over the last 7 days. The average rank of the top Yasuo's was Diamond II.

Eat shit riot.

ZephyrDrake1 votes

Boards where if the nerf isn't massive it's not an actual nerf.

Lowering the regen means Kass is more vulnerable to poke and that the damage you do to him will stick longer. But I guess that unless you hit a champion with like 50+ base damage nerfs along with ratio nerfs and CD increases across the board it isn't a "real nerf"

3TWarrior1 votes

it's 2 hp per 5 seconds or 24 per minute. It's barely a scratch

I wanted to compare it to yorick, but I can't find the numbers that were changed as I remember it being an active ability changed

Hügö1 votes

As if someone had the time to even reg some hp today lol.

KmSneaky1 votes

No real nerfs in 6 months ? How about 52% winrate top Viktor who's now at 49% w/r top and 45% mid, he sure didn't get nerfed huh? x) top viktor was unhealthy, but the patches hurt mid viktor more than top, can't wait for the next time he's viable and gets gutted again ...

rtbf2216514121 votes

But that -5 movement speed nerf on Janna tho.

[slayer-pantheon-popcorn]

Melledoneus1 votes

-0.4 base regen?!?

Jesus christ Riot, taking it a bit far, are we?

DarkSoul19941 votes

Riot should at least shave off 5 movespeed while they're at it.

/s

Schenix1 votes

Kassadin is an extremely volatile champion in terms of balance and someone Riot acknowledges as always keeping an eye on. It's a nudge to push him out of lane early since he has very little presence or control then, allowing his roaming to be less effective as well as being able to contest early champions. While this seems small, it's fine to see what it does and adjust the numbers because it's really the right thing to change that encourages Kassadin to take good trades or suffer -- which rewards players who can perform well and punish those who cannot. I would rather a champion slowly nudged into the correct balance rather than slingshotted around or hit with random nerfs for the sake of nerfs personally.

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