when is kassadin getting real nerfs?

shabingi·Jan 15, 2019·48 votes·18,627 views

Kassadin Base armor lowered from 23.376 to 20 Armor per level lowered from 3.2 to 2.75

this won't even matter vs ap champions. is riot going to address the shit that actually makes him busted? i.e presence of mind, sustain rune page, 2 second flash etc. maybe start with reverting the totally unnecessary ult buff from worlds patch (in one of the worst patches post 8.11 where riot tried to force already strong champs into worlds meta and did nothing but fuck up solo queue balance even more)?

not sure why this is a thing, look at the skill! https://streamable.com/t1fdu maybe give his ult stacks like teemo shrooms. used to be gated by mana, but runes have removed most of the champions weaknesses

74 Comments

Who Fed RuJan 15, 201914 votes

He is supposed to counter ap champs.

AD champs will completely destroy him after that nerf.

50ShadesOfGenderJan 15, 201921 votes

That's a shit way to balance a champ. Basically a coin flip around if your mid laner picks an ad champ.

PoskeJan 15, 201912 votes

{quoted}

That's a shit way to balance a champ. Basically a coin flip around if your mid laner picks an ad champ.

If a midlaner picks ap champion you pick kassadin (This ll happen in 90% of cases) If a midlaner picks ad champion you dont pick kassadin

Also he is nowhere close to being bad vs ad matchups other then lucian

Those who firstpick AP champions shouldnt be forced to ban CANCERKASADADWAINDW

LordGeovanniJan 16, 20191 votes

Just like if you dont pick cc champions you shouldnt be forced to ban Katarina or Master Yi or Yasou.

BigsnaxJan 15, 20196 votes

i disagree, i actually think league needs more of this kind of thing, lots more counterpicking

Zeppelins circusJan 15, 20195 votes

{quoted}

i disagree, i actually think league needs more of this kind of thing, lots more counterpicking

Champions need to be designed so that their kits do the counterpicking. Not by blocks of stats slapped on. His "passive" is not a kit, it is just pure base stats attached mascarading as a kit. He doesn't even need to BUILD mr or has benefit to building anti-mage.

If this is the logic, nobody should be able to duel/kill/outrun/tank or hell even WIN against Mundo.

BigsnaxJan 16, 20191 votes

hmm i guess thats a fair point.
honestly i dont think true counterpicks will ever be a thing in league, because despite it probably being healthy for the gamestate it would not feel good to soloqueue players which riot would not enjoy.
it also cant be a thing because for some reason you have to unlock champions in this game....

TobykachuJan 16, 20192 votes

Is it really a good idea to balance a game around counter picking? Having huge advantages from champion select seems like a really negative thing to have in the game

BigsnaxJan 16, 20192 votes

yes it is completely fine. from a casual players viewpoint it would probably be negative because they wouldnt get to play their favorite character every game. but this kind of design philosophy is used in other mobas and imo works way better in terms of the ‘metas’ healthiness.
when there are no hard counters and the most you ever get is a soft counter, drafting phases just become purely about who gets the most op pick and who gets the second most op pick.
basically i dont see anything wrong with placing more emphasis on the strategy behind the drafting phase.

Moody PJan 16, 20191 votes

He has a magic shield which is infinitely more relevant than his shitty passive to countering AP champions

Zeppelins circusJan 16, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KsfzIaMx,comment-id=00000000000100000001,timestamp=2019-01-16T09:48:36.849+0000)

He has a magic shield which is infinitely more relevant than his shitty passive to countering AP champions

That shield is cardboard if it did not have the passive.

MLDzXnRRRJan 16, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Zeppelins circus,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KsfzIaMx,comment-id=000000000001000000010000,timestamp=2019-01-16T12:00:28.492+0000)

That shield is cardboard if it did not have the passive.

Isn't Talon way tankier vs AP, because of his insane MR (Kassa has no MR per lvl). Also, Pyke (unless he got nerfed sometime after release)

aezensJan 16, 20191 votes

I disagree with your opinion as well. I think invested time should be valued somewhat equally. Wether you want to specialize in a small selection or lern a broad variety should not matter. Sure there need to be a slight differences in strength in order to have a chance against opt´s but never ever should the pick decide the outcome of the match (which is clearly the case currently if both teams are equally skilled).

The reasoning is simple: Some people play the game some the champions. If you constantly favour people who switch champions and playstyles faster than there underwear you will loose those who are interested in the lore and phantasy of there champions and master every tiny aspect of them.

I´d go as far as to say some pleople don´t even care about the game anymore only how much lp they gain.

Serika ZeroJan 16, 20191 votes

Problem with your view. do you think a surgeon doctor. The doctor that one tricked surgery is paid more?

Or the generalist medic that spend his study knowing about everything.

It's the first one. they get paid more because they specialized.

Because we all got a finite amount of time we can spend doing something. Including playing this game. For this is why, how much you are able to learn is limited by how quickly you pick things up and how much time you invest. If someone spend a lot of time learning all champions. they will have to spend 120+ times more time learning the champions than someone one tricking. which is why in higher elo you get more one tricks

aezensJan 18, 20191 votes

Not going into detail that the amount of money you get almost never correlates with the actual amount of work you put into something. But anyway it isn´t necessary to understand the fundermental logic. The amount of information you can get about something is somewhat restricted as well which means the closer you get to that limit the less you will improve.

Same principle applies to lol. You can´t get linear better in what you are doing. There is a much bigger difference between 10 and 100 games played with a certain champion compared to 100 and 1000. That means you can lern a variety of champion without getting left behind and you definitely have the advantage of using a more suited pick in certain situations. On the other hand if you focus on a single champion and get counter picked, there isn´t really anything you can do because the enemy has a lot of knowledge about his champion as well.

Who Fed RuJan 16, 20191 votes

{quoted}

That's a shit way to balance a champ. Basically a coin flip around if your mid laner picks an ad champ.

So like ... every champ because every champ is designed to counter something or be countered by something. It would be even more horrible to design champs to be equally good in all matchups.

Balancing it like they do gives the game clear win conditions. So if your mid laner has a hard matchup while the enemies have a Kassadin, the jungler for example should react to it and put more priority on taking Kass out of the game early. If your mid has an AD Assassin, you should be able to put your priority somewhere else early, but be careful because he will heavily outscale your mid later. Knowing the win conditions in each game and what champions could become a problem at which part of the game and how to prevent it is part of a players skill.

shabingiJan 15, 20197 votes

a champion should counter others based on their kit and gameplay, not base stats.

Who Fed RuJan 16, 20191 votes

{quoted}

a champion should counter others based on their kit and gameplay, not base stats.

That's why he has a anti magic shield on his Q.

He already has a low Base MR and horrible Base MR scaling for a melee. If you would nerf that he wouldn't even win lane anymore against people he is supposed to win against.

Fisher No ChainsJan 16, 20193 votes

He is supposed to counter AP champs why exactly?

Oh right, it’s because of the interactive “you take 15% less magic damage because yes” passive.

Playing any AP champion not named Cassiopeia or Galii against current Kassadin is a suicide. No way to exploit his “””weak””” early game, not with all the sustain he’s got.

Zeppelins circusJan 16, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fisher No Chains,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KsfzIaMx,comment-id=00000002,timestamp=2019-01-16T02:22:49.422+0000)

He is supposed to counter AP champs why exactly?

Oh right, it’s because of the interactive “you take 15% less magic damage because yes” passive.

Playing any AP champion not named Cassiopeia or Galii against current Kassadin is a suicide. No way to exploit his “””weak””” early game, not with all the sustain he’s got.

Even picking something extreme like Leblanc or malzahar means jack. The statistics proves themselves louder than any "personal opinion/experience". He cannot be pushed out of lane.

The strange thing is, there is no explanation why he is a mage counter at all. Not even LORE.

SweedishGunnerJan 16, 20191 votes

Kass is a counter to Malz why would you ever pick him into Kass?

Free RollJan 16, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Who Fed Ru,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KsfzIaMx,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-01-15T22:54:53.877+0000)

He is supposed to counter ap champs.

AD champs will completely destroy him after that nerf.

Except he counters everything lol. He utterly shits out an ADc or support in the blink of and eye as well and craps all over many class arch types. He is not a "ap counter" pick, he is a world destroying insta killing unstoppable force...not like he even pays for it with an extremely weak early game anymore either too many ways to sustain through levels 1-5 and just use TP.

Also you are delusional if you think losing 3 armor matters lol, the real world translation on that is like single digit dmg.

Who Fed RuJan 16, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Free Roll,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KsfzIaMx,comment-id=00000003,timestamp=2019-01-16T11:06:27.381+0000)

Except he counters everything lol. He utterly shits out an ADc or support in the blink of and eye as well and craps all over many class arch types. He is not a "ap counter" pick, he is a world destroying insta killing unstoppable force...not like he even pays for it with an extremely weak early game anymore either too many ways to sustain through levels 1-5 and just use TP.

Also you are delusional if you think losing 3 armor matters lol, the real world translation on that is like single digit dmg.

If you think so. I'm just gonna pick Zed into him and watch him cry.

The Highest NoonJan 15, 20195 votes

You're arguing "this won't work against AP champs" for an anti-ap champion.

Is this for real?

Also, fuck a nerf. He needs a rework already. He sould've been reworked when Kai'Sa was released.

shabingiJan 15, 20196 votes

kassadin is an anti ap champion almost entirely because of his bolted on passive which is totally non interactive and effectively base stats. add that passive to any champion in the game and now they are an anti ap champ.

Zeppelins circusJan 15, 20192 votes

{quoted}

kassadin is an anti ap champion almost entirely because of his bolted on passive which is totally non interactive and effectively base stats. add that passive to any champion in the game and now they are an anti ap champ.

Totally agree. It is hardly a thing you can play against. If Malzahar has a free banshees, this is essentially a free negatron to visage. Both are bad kits.

The Highest NoonJan 16, 20191 votes

{quoted}

kassadin is an anti ap champion almost entirely because of his bolted on passive which is totally non interactive and effectively base stats. add that passive to any champion in the game and now they are an anti ap champ.

And then there's also his magic damage shield.

shabingiJan 16, 20191 votes

"almost entirely" aka 90% of the reason is the passive, 10% is the shield which actually requires skill to use and has a CD, unlike his passive.

The Highest NoonJan 16, 20191 votes

{quoted}

"almost entirely" aka 90% of the reason is the passive, 10% is the shield which actually requires skill to use and has a CD, unlike his passive.

There's also his mobility which was meant to counter the majority of AP champions having skillshots and AOEs.

I think your math is wrong.

IG ZikoJan 16, 20195 votes

I can provide you with 5000 Master Yi pentakills that would be faster than this. The problem with nerfing kassadin is that he is useless before level 6 and weak before stacked ROA and Archangels.

It's like the opposite of champions like Xin and Talon who destroy early game then fall so hard. If you have rough laning phase you can destroy late game.

shabingiJan 16, 20191 votes

you cannot provide me with any yi pentakills of him going from literally in the baron pit to their fountain in like 15 seconds while killing their entire team. the point is that maybe rift walking 15 times in a row is not reasonable

Spicy RiceJan 16, 20199 votes

14, but thats besides the point.

The man had over 4000 mana, Blue buff, baron, presence of mind, and his w.

Kassadin has always been a monster if he had his items and was level 16.

That's also without mentioning his 9 kills, 200 cs, or the fact that kass was level 16, or how neeko was level 12, aatrox was 14, and the rest of the enemy team was level 13.

slayerfordays02Jan 16, 20191 votes

SPEAK THE TRUCH MAN> FINALLY SOMEONE ELSE WHO HAS A BRAIN!

Neptunia xoxoJan 16, 20195 votes

Not too sure why people bring him up tbh... Hes not even that amazing right now hes just a champion you pick to counter a champion or a team comp or you just get smashed by anyone who picks an AD champion into him or an AD comp.. in this clip that was posted it's just an extremely fed Kassadin with a shit ton of items vs an underfed team lol people act like this didn't happen in season 4/5/6/7/8 smh

slayerfordays02Jan 16, 20191 votes

Facts

ØrnnToGetTrolleÐJan 16, 20195 votes

-5 MS incoming

4th3t0sJan 16, 20195 votes

Gonna be unpopular here, but he had a 3 level lead on half the enemy team, no idea if they had any MR built, I'm assuming he was fed as hell being almost full build at level 16, nevermind the maxed out item 1082 ...if you're going to make a point, some of these need to be taken into account. Though I will concede him not running oom after the 5th-6th Riftwalk is horseshit; he shouldn't be hitting THAT hard for itemizing that hard into mana.

Nausicäa Jan 16, 20193 votes

This is a really stupid argument. He was ahead, so what? He had 3 items thats not 'almost full build' No champion should be able to do what Kassadin did in that clip ahead or not.

Yoinked Your UltJan 16, 20193 votes

Yes, give his ult stacks like teemo shrooms, so when I steal the ult with Sylas I get full stacks.

wildfox9TJan 16, 20191 votes

it works with her Ahri

sigh

Yoinked Your UltJan 16, 20191 votes

I prefer Kassadin tbh.

ArdondJan 16, 20193 votes

oh look a one sided clip with an insanely fed champion, with a huge amount of items compared to the enemy. Of course a damage dealer like Kass is going to destroy a team if he's fed and the enemy don't fight back. Not to mention how this post is all opinion, just name dropping runes and random champ stats without context.

Tedo58Jan 17, 20193 votes

Ye hes kinda dumb rn. I went 0/6 - 0/10 a couple of times with kassadin early game but once i hit 3 items i just refuse to die and i just get a bajilion kills after that.

Dope SoloJan 16, 20192 votes

You'd rather fight Zed or Talon? Also just about any ranged AD champ fucks with Kassadin pretty hard.

GhostofBaconJan 16, 20192 votes

I find it funny that this is the clip you use as your evidebce. He's got 200 cs and 9 kills. Obviously nobody stopped him from farming early shown by his 3 deaths and the enemy teams 13 kills. He's 3 levels up against a team of pure squishies. Before anyone says aatrox isn't squishy, look at his build. Dude has got his core items finished, stacked and his ult juiced up from running from baron pit. He also has presence of mind, blue buff, baron and seraph passive. Sure presence of mind is stupid on him but it really only starts mattering late game where he is supposed to be good.

Nausicäa Jan 16, 20192 votes

'No one stopped him from farming early so he should be able to 1v5 penta kill while dashing 10 times with 1 second cooldown'

Great argument.

GhostofBaconJan 16, 20192 votes

You misunderstand. Let me fix that.

"Nobody stopped a hyper carry from farming up 3 full items, getting a massive level advantage and a few kills and reaching his late game power spike that the champions is famous for. He shouldn't be able to deal massive damage to squishes with no MR after fully stacking his ulti.

Great argument.

You do notice the game is a stomp right? One where both Kassadin and his team a so far ahead that it's not even funny. You put any other mobile fed hyper carry there and they do the same thing. Hell put a fed Yi or Kaisa in the same situation where people refuse to cc them like they did the Kass and they'd wipe just as efficiently.