Concerning Veigar's Post-DFG Update

Yordle God··5 votes·925 views

Hello, my name is Scrappy, and Veigar is one of my most beloved champions to play in League.

So obviously, I'm worried about the Gameplay Update that Riot is starting to hint at aimed towards the Tiny Master of Evil.

When asked about the status of these changes are the 5.3 PBE is currently wrapping up and they are no where to found, Meddler replied: "Kat changes didn't quite do what we'd hoped so they've been pulled for now. Might get revisited at some point, no definitive plans though. Veigar and Morde changes are tentatively scheduled for 5.4 - they've proved to be tougher jobs than originally hoped." When asked about Veigar specifically, Meddler elaborated: "Odds are very high Veigar won't just be straight buffed. His kit's got some serious counterplay issues (undodgeable instant stun when used right, two point and click nukes) that we need to address. Bundled with counterplay improvements though should be some better tools for Veigar himself (e.g. less binary tools, so he's got better options in tough lanes, lower mana costs, lower CDs, bit more range on some stuff etc - note these aren't set in stone changes though, just possibilities). With you on the megalomania feel, and we've got no desire to change that." He continued: "As above Veigar's got some counterplay problems. We want to make him healthier to play against, so it's ok if he's strong, rather than buffing him only to feel we immediately have to nerf him because of how he can be to play against." Meddler continued, noting a few ideas for these "counterplay problems": "Q as skillshot's one of the things we're trying, not sure if it's currently on the kit in testing or not. Giving E a brief delay to play up the 'where do I stand inside the cage?' aspect, and then potentially increasing its range or lowering its CD's also being investigated."

Source: http://www.surrenderat20.net/2015/02/red-post-collection-meddler-on.html

TL;DR Riot seems to be facing a challenge with balancing Veigar Post-DFG. They've begun investigation on a Gameplay Update for Veigar. The ideas that Meddler has mentioned in this red post are not drastic by any stretch of the imagination.

  • Alterations to mana costs, cooldowns, and ranges
  • Baleful Strike [Q] being reworked, possibly being changed to a skillshot
  • Changes to his Event Horizon [E], adding more counterplay in the mix. Less of an 'instant stun'
  • Meddler did also mention they are making sure they keep that "megalomania feel" to his play style. (obsession with the exercise of power, especially in the domination of others)

I am extremely happy Meddler mentioned that they wanted to keep Veigar's megalomania feel. In my opinion, the best way to keep his super fun and addicting gameplay intact is not touching his core mechanics. That includes

  1. Allowing Veigar to farm Ability Power with a low cd ability
  2. Making sure his CC Ability still has a sinister, "you've landed in my trap" kind of feel
  3. His Ultimate still should have the ultra high magic damage nuke of death and despair kind of feel.
  4. That laugh

His core is very broad and has endless possibilities. I'm excited for what you guys have in store. Make us Veigar Players proud!

8 Comments

DrCyanide5 votes

I think part of the problem is that any changes to his E have rippling effects through out his kit. A less reliable stun means a less reliable W. It also means a lot more dead Veigars who need to use the stun to escape.

I've played a fair amount of Viktor, and I think it would be a massive loss on Veigar's part if his stun gets worked into something like Viktor's. Yes, Viktor's stun has counterplay, but it is virtually worthless against a high mobility champion. Veigar's current stun, even if it misses, will at least stop a high mobility champion from engaging.

I find myself somewhat hoping that Riot never actually figures out how to change Veigar, since I feel any change to him will result in him being in a worse place than he currently is.

4th3t0s3 votes

Terrible early game, zero mobility=insane burst, good teamfight CC utility? IMO, this does equal out to a very close point when you consider how much counterplay through itemization he suffers from, like any other champ in the game. Skillshot abilities being associated with counterplay really doesn't hold water when you have one of the most immobile (Hi Morde) champs in the game in question.

TL;DR how much of a flaw is his lack of mobility against his damage potential? I still think he's quite balanced even with the DFG removal, all things considered.

Goosetard2 votes

I wish targetable nukes like Ryze and Veigar Q weren't taking so much heat when there's things like TwistedFate gold card running around stunning people for two seconds.

Erockandroll1 votes

The Trick with his Event Horison is how it is used. It has a lot of Zone Potential (more so than Viktor's Gravity well.) I would agree that the spell needs some level of set up time to fix the instant stun issue. But another change to his E itself (stun duration, Spell duration, Area) maybe inappropriate.

As for the Ripple of effect of that change. I feel like his other spells should have more reliability Namely his W outside of the stun wall.

Edit: I'm iffy about the Skill shot idea. I honestly feel like turning everything into a skillshot may not be the best way to balance champions. Not to mention that Skill shots do have a surprising amount of Utility.

Cindikle1 votes

I think his E should become a 50/60/70/80/90% slow/silence for 1.5 seconds, increasing to 2s if the target was inside of the wall when cast. This will also stop all mobility effect that run into it(unless they state otherwise). Similar to Azir's ult.

This gives it plenty of counterplay early game to allow him to gain some power there to farm easier. Thus more AP.

4th3t0s1 votes

{quoted}

I think his E should become a 50/60/70/80/90% slow/silence for 1.5 seconds, increasing to 2s if the target was inside of the wall when cast. This will also stop all mobility effect that run into it(unless they state otherwise). Similar to Azir's ult.

This gives it plenty of counterplay early game to allow him to gain some power there to farm easier. Thus more AP.

See, it's things like this that have me worried about his "buffs." Riot has in the past stated his e is literally the best non-ult AoE CC, albeit situational, ability in the game. Any buffs, however small, would make it too good

Cindikle1 votes

Not sure I'd call this a buff. It's a nerf to his early game. But late game it can be very powerful. IMO the biggest problem with balancing it right now is that a good Veiger can land it on you and gain an instant 2.5s stun. It has almost no counterplay.

A 90%slow/silence almost may as well be a stun. But this allows the strength of the CC to scale. Not just the duration. And the added bonus of being anti-mobility. Which we could use more of.

It's a nerf to the CC's strait up power. But a buff to it's utility. And done so in a way that his early game could gain buffs in other ways.

4th3t0s1 votes

Here's the thing though, any counterplay regarding his e being near-guaranteed is still countered by smart itemization (banshees, qss, tenacity, etc.); the same way rushing zhonyas is counterplay against ad assassins (until lw comes into play, but I digress). He doesn't have any mechanic in his kit that offers absolutely zero counterplay, items or otherwise; this isn't like Poppy's ult.

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