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Dunkey may be toxic but he had some points.

Yordle God·9/13/2015, 12:35:41 AM·158 votes·10,538 views

EDIT: Sorry for the repost, it got removed due to reasons regarding the video I had linked. Another edit (lol): I'm not against Dunkey being banned. He was being just as toxic as the dude that pissed him off. Third and final edit: It's amazing that this entire post really doesn't have much to say about Dunkey, yet everyone seems to think I'm siding with him or pitying him or agreeing with him entirely. It's a smart thing for companies to assist their YouTube and Social Media supporters, but not all do. Riot is obviously not one of those people (for the most part), and that's not even my concern in the first place. I might as well wipe everything about Dunkey out of this post because it really doesn't dwell on him. These are MY issues. Dunkey didn't mention poor champion design in his video like I did here. If you're going to comment, please keep it related to what was actually in the post, not whether or not Dunkey should be compensated or not. Thank you.

I've watched Dunk since the beginning of time so trust me when I say this video almost made me cry.

Yes, he's a little toxic. And Riot decided not to treat a YouTube celebrity different than anyone else. Which IMO, that is a very HUMBLE thing to do. That would just be plain unfair. BUT

BUT

Dunkey is right about everything else. League is a shell of it's former glory to many of us that has played before S4. My main issue with this game is the Champion design. When Lucian came out, everyone seemed to be worried about the possibility of all new champions having crazy mobility.

First, let me explain why this is bad game design. It has been proven time and TIME again, across ALL genres of videogames that making the player a god lowers the skill floor 2x and raises the skill ceiling like 1x. When you make every player able to escape their mistakes over and over again, everyone gets punished. No one wins.

When Kalista came out, everyone lost their shit. Almost their entire fan base is asking one simple question - Why does Riot feel the need to make every champion in league of legends faster than the fucking Flash?

Think of one champion after Kalista that doesn't have unessecary mobility shoehorned into their kit somewhere. (except Sion. He's pretty mint.)

Any champion that doesn't have mobility somewhere in their kit will just simply be nerfed by proxy. Because they're not the rest. The new champions are like better versions of old champions. (Which makes them a killing. Moneymoneymoney)

So Riot looked at what they've done and they start thinking.

"Well for some reason we keep on giving CertainlyT bonus checks and he keeps making toxic champions. Now our game is a shit pot and our old champions can't even play League of Legends anymore."

So they break the glass and activate the "UPDATE EVERY CHAMP TO BE FASTER THAN SONIC" button and all hell breaks loose.

Boom, League of Legends enters a paradox and everything is ass-backwards.

Mordekaiser can now ult a Dragon and he doesn't even follow the rules of the game. Fiora is basically Fox McCloud. Gangplank auto attacks something every few seconds and becomes Sonic for a short duration. And he does true damage. And pierces armor. And gains more movement speed. ????

The game is a joke. It's literally a circle jerk of the new champions. When's the last time you saw a Fiddlesticks.

Fiddlesticks is fucking cool but he doesn't have his running shoes yet so no getting past Prof. CertainlyT and getting out of Pallet Town.

I don't even

147 Comments

Very Hard Engage9/13/2015, 12:46:22 AM41 votes

what riot ignores is the trade off, certain champions should have wave clear, others should have mobility. etc etc.

if they have great wave clear, maybe they move slow. maybe if a champion can jump 50 thousand times and kite bruisers indefinitely, maybe, just maybe, they should be weaker in the damage department.

but champions like wave clear, who were king for a long time (ziggs, syndra) were nerfed because they could spam forever and just not need or care to hit and they could just walk away and try again later with no real draw back (other than stealth or mobility/flash /incorrect positioning, or just take it and run at them with shurelya)

champions need weaknesses, just as much as a strength to capitalize (their unique-ness, what makes them that defining champion)

but right now, certain champions have their strength, and a very undefined weakness/very niche counter, or some champions just dont accomplish enough to warrant being picked at all.

Irelia Bot9/13/2015, 12:40:13 AM21 votes

Basically the TL;DR is that we need windows of weakness instead of windows of power

AbyssionKnight9/13/2015, 2:43:22 AM20 votes

Honestly, I don't think League is as bad as Dunkey claimed. You have to remember he has 8000 games in League. Even if all his games ended at 20 minutes, that's still ~2667 hours of enjoyment from a free to play game. Most people never play any game that long, so that's an impressive track record.

Of course over that much time you're going to start getting bored of the game. They try to change it up and keep things fresh, but there's really only so much you can do to the game, while keeping the core gameplay intact.

I do agree that Riot has lost some of their fun personality and tongue in cheek humour in the game, but I don't think the game has devolved to the point where people just find it 'boring' and nothing else.

That's a pretty steep exaggeration.

Dunkrius2g9/13/2015, 2:16:26 AM20 votes

Fiddlesticks is fucking cool but he doesn't have his running shoes yet so no getting past Prof. CertainlyT and getting out of Pallet Town.

LOL!!!

Zone of Endless9/13/2015, 1:08:00 AM11 votes

The main problem with league,imo, is not even close to champion design.

They prioritize banning trash talker over feeders and trolls that are ruining the game way worst than someone who talk trash.

pE4CbxDPQO9/13/2015, 12:54:40 AM9 votes

Yeah Fiora literally made me download Dota2 which I hadn't even considered before. I still haven't switched over but if the trend continues they will lose a player. They already lost a purchaser.

Silents4299/13/2015, 4:07:09 AM9 votes

League is a shell of it's former glory to many of us that has played before S4. My main issue with this game is the Champion design. When Lucian came out, everyone seemed to be worried about the possibility of all new champions having crazy mobility.

People were bitching in S2 about how good S1 and the Beta was, People in S3 were complaining about the good old days of S1/2/ or 3, People in Season 4 did the same, Season 5 people continue to do the same, and in Season 6 people will CONTINUE doing it.

This isn't unique to League and League is not a former shell of itself, if he wants to act like a whiny kid over it then let him, but stop giving him more attention over it, he didn't do anything right, and he didn't make any "good" points that weren't out of a bid of rage.

AtheosisX9/13/2015, 3:14:41 AM7 votes

I'm not a huge fan of new champion design outside of Tahm Kench, but the notion that older champions aren't still competitive is just blatantly wrong.

Masochist9/13/2015, 1:09:38 AM7 votes

Lol, I've played the game since a couple weeks after they opened the door in open beta.

The key to keeping it fun is not to play all the damn time. Take long breaks.

You play any game every day, for years, it's going to become annoying to you, you're going to become jaded.

It's Dunkey's own fault he got tired of the game.

He still seems like a little kid, totally incapable of taking personal responsibility for the things he does or says.

Smitty Manjensen9/13/2015, 2:35:31 AM7 votes

He's a little toxic? He flamed the shit out of that guy in that match plus you won't get punished for flaming 1 game, he flamed at least 4 or 5 games, also don't get me wrong the other guy should get banned too.

Penns9/13/2015, 1:21:47 AM6 votes

Tbh there are enough threads about dunkey, who even cares about this guy? Why does Riot need to "get their shit together" because they ban someone that has been consistently toxic? At least thats what Ive seen in the 3 videos I watched from him. In fact, they did get their shit together because they banned him lol. He shouldnt just get unbanned because "he advertised League for 4 years". Its more like "League promoted dunkey for 4 years" anyway.

TotalJerk9/13/2015, 3:17:50 AM6 votes

I just watched the video. He's essentially pissed because they didn't give him preferential treatment because he's popular.

WooBeeWoo9/13/2015, 2:28:58 PM5 votes

I don't feel like Dunkey is toxic. At least not in the instance he referenced. That asshole was being exactly what he said. He wasn't flaming someone for doing bad but genuinely trolling. That should not be ban worthy

Akali is SO HOT9/13/2015, 2:06:12 AM5 votes

[{quoted}](name=Worst Kayle NA,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VnT5is9p,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-09-13T00:35:41.090+0000)

Yes, he's a little toxic.

Not even close to being true. He is toxic as fuck and I'm honestly surprised he lasted as long as he did before he finally got banned.

3TWarrior9/13/2015, 2:52:41 AM4 votes

I think they should return to the old 2 - 1 - 2 lanes

things were so much more fun then...now everyone wants a jungler when they either make or break the game

Wasabo9/13/2015, 7:29:03 AM4 votes

Think of one champion after Kalista that doesn't have unessecary mobility shoehorned into their kit somewhere.

TahmKench Bard

GibbyCanes9/13/2015, 12:27:11 PM4 votes

It isn't mathematically possible to have a champion pool as large and diverse as what League offers without a fraction of them becoming generally more effective (when played to full effect) at contributing towards a win than the others. It has to happen. It's a result of a large combination of variables: Possible builds and the synergies items can have with various abilities and approaches toward the game + the champions you are likely to either face as opponents or be on a team with + objectives and the conditions needed for securing them to be in a teams favor.

LoL has a unique format that is based around changing the common practices that have held games such as Starcraft back from becoming the esport it had the potential to be. One of the most vital aspects of Riot's approach addresses one of the largest differences between the conventional sports that have spawned their own multi-billion dollar industries and the games that give rise to short-lived, moderately successful esports scenes: the sports that have been going strong for decades actually have a game that can be played for decades. Point being there is no LoL 2 on the way. The only way to keep the game fresh is to add champion which change which champs are in that upper fraction by necessity. When a champion seems to have fallen hopelessly out of viability, it gets reworked and plugged back in. Honestly it's a pretty intuitive process and I think the main reason so many bitch about it has a lot to do with players being upset that the champs they were successful enough to elo-climb with don't work the way they used to. But that is change. It is part of the game.

Something worth noting about the process above is that it is carried out with the same spirit that drives the changes made to games like basketball, football, etc. It is done with the explicit purpose of promoting skilled play. Skill is what makes the sport fun to watch and what keeps the pro scene as competitive as possible. You mention Fiddle in your post, and it's true he isn't seen as often at any level of play. Considering what is being done by top players today and the plays they make, I'm almost certain that no one would find an LCS match more entertaining because Fiddle is being played. Champions are designed with the abilities of a skilled player in mind. A new champions kit is always meant to be one that showcases the capabilities of the skilled player's mind. A Fidd flash-ult-zhonyas isn't particularly exciting or impressive by today's standards. In fact if a player managed to land that sort of cheese in an LCS match, the general consensus would be that it was a result of the opponent making a mistake and not the skill of the playmaker; that would suggest the champion overall isn't quite living up to the design goal mentioned earlier.

General Esdeath 9/13/2015, 8:39:01 AM3 votes

Riot has escalated into what I call the "Late phase" of their game. Anyone who played Wizard101, Elsword, or most online games that have a level/rank system know what this means. It's when the level cap is too high (not an issue in League), the ranking system becomes too diverse and large (League has a lot of rank problems but this isn't one) or there's too many characters (This is what we have). The sad part is they're pumping out more champs/skins instead of putting their effort and thought into balance. For example, they said they would get rid of flare, and they did so by making the same thing with a limit and a name. It's not original, it's not new, it's just a copy/paste answer. Don't get me wrong, I know League is 99% impossible to balance, but there's supposed to be diversity in strengths and weaknesses. A champ should be able to wave clear and be immobile (Xerath) and another champ is mobile and fast but takes a while to wave clear without blowing their abilities and lowering their kill potential (Zed). Instead we have champs like Gnar who can do both easily. We also have champions like Morde who can gain a crazy advantage (Leveling faster than lane opponent) and pull off their ult combo before the other guy is even 5. Another problem is they use win rates, when in reality they don't mean as much as you think. I could play Morde bot and go 5-0 in the first 10 minutes, but that Riven in top lane is now 5-0 and coming to kill me along with the 4-0 Twisted Fate in mid lane. I won lane but I lost the game, and according to Riot means Morde is not broken. Now imagine that happening with several champs.

TL;DR Riot needs to slow down and balance their game before adding new things. $$$ through skins =/= reliable source of income.

A Liberal9/13/2015, 5:09:55 AM2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Worst Kayle NA,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VnT5is9p,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-09-13T00:35:41.090+0000)

EDIT: Sorry for the repost, it got removed due to reasons regarding the video I had linked. Another edit (lol): I'm not against Dunkey being banned. He was being just as toxic as the dude that pissed him off.

I've watched Dunk since the beginning of time so trust me when I say this video almost made me cry.

Yes, he's a little toxic. And Riot decided not to treat a YouTube celebrity different than anyone else. Which IMO, that is a very HUMBLE thing to do. That would just be plain unfair. BUT

BUT

Dunkey is right about everything else. League is a shell of it's former glory to many of us that has played before S4. My main issue with this game is the Champion design. When Lucian came out, everyone seemed to be worried about the possibility of all new champions having crazy mobility.

First, let me explain why this is bad game design. It has been proven time and TIME again, across ALL genres of videogames that making the player a god lowers the skill floor 2x and raises the skill ceiling like 1x. When you make every player able to escape their mistakes over and over again, everyone gets punished. No one wins.

When Kalista came out, everyone lost their shit. Almost their entire fan base is asking one simple question - Why does Riot feel the need to make every champion in league of legends faster than the fucking Flash?

Think of one champion after Kalista that doesn't have unessecary mobility shoehorned into their kit somewhere. (except Sion. He's pretty mint.)

Any champion that doesn't have mobility somewhere in their kit will just simply be nerfed by proxy. Because they're not the rest. The new champions are like better versions of old champions. (Which makes them a killing. Moneymoneymoney)

So Riot looked at what they've done and they start thinking.

"Well for some reason we keep on giving CertainlyT bonus checks and he keeps making toxic champions. Now our game is a shit pot and our old champions can't even play League of Legends anymore."

So they break the glass and activate the "UPDATE EVERY CHAMP TO BE FASTER THAN SONIC" button and all hell breaks loose.

Boom, League of Legends enters a paradox and everything is ass-backwards.

Mordekaiser can now ult a Dragon and he doesn't even follow the rules of the game. Fiora is basically Fox McCloud. Gangplank auto attacks something every few seconds and becomes Sonic for a short duration. And he does true damage. And pierces armor. And gains more movement speed. ????

The game is a joke. It's literally a circle jerk of the new champions. When's the last time you saw a Fiddlesticks.

Fiddlesticks is fucking cool but he doesn't have his running shoes yet so no getting past Prof. CertainlyT and getting out of Pallet Town.

I don't even

If you don't like it, leave.

DWT123459/13/2015, 12:43:59 AM2 votes

Really, after your last post got removed, you made a new one?