Actual complaints for the upcoming plants

TheHappyReaperz·Oct 30, 2016·3 votes·922 views

Do you have any? So far all I've seen are misclaims of RNG, abstract comments, and no evidence in any way backing it up. If you do really hate the plant changes, say why.

19 Comments

MimyOct 30, 20162 votes

My only complaint...

I'm bronze and let's say everyone down here is going to F up at least ONE blast cone escape attempt.

#Montague

Number of blast cone fails begins counting as a ton of clips of failed blast cones plays.

With the very worst and funniest being the last one..

Electrify69Oct 30, 20162 votes

I really want to read a structured argument about why they are bad because so far people who say they suck just seem like they are crying about change

OrinneOct 30, 20162 votes

I find it funny that you say 'misclaims of RNG', yet a recent PBE change was made specifically to target the plants feeling like there was too much RNG involved with them.

With that said, my issue with them is that it's a case where Riot is trying to find a solution to a problem that was never there, by dumping the old system and putting a new one in its place, instead of just reiterating on what they currently had.

My honest opinion is that plants will just become another 'solved' system that have optimal play patterns with no variation, so Riot will have to dump it at some point (my guess is pre-season 8, because they'll be kicking and screaming before they admit that they could possibly fuck up). The recent change to plants now taking longer to come online, along with blast cones having fewer places to spawn, more or less cements this.

SlythionOct 30, 20161 votes

I haven't played with plants yet, but does the fact that it favors ranged champions count as a good argument?

MimyOct 30, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I haven't played with plants yet, but does the fact that it favors ranged champions count as a good argument?

If you haven't played with plants yet, how can you say they favor Ranged Champions?

You don't even know if they'll even make THAT much of an impact...

When they come out people will probably be like "What was I complaining for? most people don't even interact with them for most for most of the game anyways."

SlythionOct 30, 20161 votes

If you haven't played with plants yet, how can you say they favor Ranged Champions?

I will not have my lack of experience be an excuse to blow off my assumptions, for which I can make logical assumptions based on what I know.

From my understanding, you proc the plants through auto attacks. This means a ranged champion can proc the plant earlier than most melee champs, so it goes in favor of ranged champions in yet another aspect of the game. How does this effect the jungle? Contested areas of the jungle becomes safer for ranged champions to invade and harass the enemy, especially if they are a weak early game jungler. Even if they aren't used too often, a cheese situation will occur enough times for players to realize that it's simply unnecessary and unfun.

that's just my initial opinion on plants. I fail to understand what we gain from adding these things though

MimyOct 30, 20162 votes

{quoted}

I will not have my lack of experience be an excuse to blow off my assumptions, for which I can make logical assumptions based on what I know.

From my understanding, you proc the plants through auto attacks. This means a ranged champion can proc the plant earlier than most melee champs, so it goes in favor of ranged champions in yet another aspect of the game. How does this effect the jungle? Contested areas of the jungle becomes safer for ranged champions to invade and harass the enemy, especially if they are a weak early game jungler. Even if they aren't used too often, a cheese situation will occur enough times for players to realize that it's simply unnecessary and unfun.

that's just my initial opinion on plants. I fail to understand what we gain from adding these things though

Yea but for plants in order for Booms and Honeys to affect you, you need to be in Melee range Of the plant.

The blast cone area is melee range, Yes a ranged person could probably blast you closer to them, but you can account for that as you find ways to walk around it taking it into an account. They spawn in certain areas, try practicing your escapes with a friend on a ranged character.

Honefruits you need to walk over to pick up so if a ranged champion wanted honey fruits and hit it, YOU CAN ACTUALLY STEAL IT FROM THEM.

The scryers just grant vision. Melee or Ranged, so long as your team gets it.

SlythionOct 30, 20161 votes

once again...what do you actually gain from these things other than cheese effects that help solve situations you've messed up in?

Blast cones can either help you escape from invades or get you over walls to help with you poor positioning

Honey fruits give you clutch heals to help win fights or sustain through the jungle (although smite heals you now so idk if that's a valid point) so it just cheeses you a win from a scrap you'd usually lose

And in the case of the vision...uncounterable vision of a respectable portion of the map at the cost of...nothing. That just doesn't seem fun to me.

Everything I see here doesn't seem fun. It seems like it leaves things up to chance and unfair situations. It feels like it's designed to cover up people's mistakes and make the jungle easier. This doesn't seem like it increases any competition or adds any depth to the jungle. It feels like some last-minute addition they slapped on to change up the jungle. Sure, it's "new", but that doesn't mean it improves anything.

MimyOct 30, 20161 votes

{quoted}

once again...what do you actually gain from these things other than cheese effects that help solve situations you've messed up in?

Exactly. They're just simple "Cheese" effects you need to take into account now as you play on the rift.

SlythionOct 30, 20161 votes

cheese effects (especially aspects of the game that are there solely for cheese effects) create a less competitive, and to many, a less fun environment...this has been a staple of game-play design throughout competitive gaming history.

and even if you disagree, it's still a valid reason because it boils down to an argument over opinions.

ChaddyFantomeOct 30, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I haven't played with plants yet, but does the fact that it favors ranged champions count as a good argument?

They really don't tho. Melee's have the benefit of not fucking them up as easily, as you have to be in melee range to benefit best from aiming them and using them to your advantage. Ranged champs have to be in melee range to do so.

Blast cone for example only blasts u if u are in melee range of it. So a ranged champ has to be in its zone at melee to blast themselves away and a melee pursuer away. which means you are already in melee, or they used it without knocking you away. But even then, to knock u away, you have to be in melee of the zone, so u could easily have moves an inch forward and got blasted closer to them when they hit it, or even just use it yourself.

SlythionOct 30, 20161 votes

you forget that autoing them can be used as denial as well...think of how frustrating it is to be out-ranged to get your barrels exploding as GP and I imagine a similar situation occurring with plants

ChaddyFantomeOct 30, 20161 votes

{quoted}

you forget that autoing them can be used as denial as well...think of how frustrating it is to be out-ranged to get your barrels exploding as GP and I imagine a similar situation occurring with plants

The difference tho is plants aren't placed in your opponents face for them to hit them like Ganplanks barrels are, and their effects are only useful when u position correctly for em.

SlythionOct 30, 20161 votes

and ranged can deny that even as you are trying to position for them

not to mention all of their effects are for cheese situations which isn't healthy for a competitive game

ChaddyFantomeOct 30, 20161 votes

{quoted}

and ranged can deny that even as you are trying to position for them.

I don't know why u think we live in a world where this isn't one of many scenarios as opposed to how it will occur every time, but likely and tbh quite clearly, u haven't played with the new plants yet.

not to mention all of their effects are for cheese situations which isn't healthy for a competitive game

How is Scryign orb cheese? Honeyfruit will not save you from getting chased and all in-d, it even slows u as you pick em up. Blast cone has a lot of play around it for both parties and will only be detrimental if you fail to capitalize on it before such a scenario occurs, as you know it is there before it even shows up.

It is not like it will just appear out of nowhere.

The idea that RNG in any and all form is bad for the game is incredibly shortsighted, but I struggle to even call this plants RNG, as opposed to mini objectives on the map, since they always appear in the same spots and you always know when and where they will spawn.

ChaddyFantomeOct 30, 20161 votes

My only complaint is teamates fucking you over like with kindred, Tahm Kench and Bard ultis.

I played a game where my Vayne launched me into the Dragon Pit while the enemy was doing it. =-=

EcchiOtakuTMOct 30, 20161 votes

Healing plant needs to be removed. Either that or smite accessible only. It ruins laners.

I've tested it constantly, it's far too accessible to laners, and even if the restore amount was nerfed(currently it's like 40-60% of hp and mana), it would still be far too strong since regardless laners would shove->pick it up comeback with much higher hp and mana than earlier.

Junglers can't really contest it even f they ward ahead of time simply because it's far too easy to grab.

The plant is simply unhealthy far too reliable, far too much restored and nothing to give up to grab it.

However the blast plant is pretty fun and improves immobile champs reasonably, while mobility champs it's not too much of a boost limited number and lower respawn time also helped them fit more into the game.

Vision plant is vision, always useful. Just wish the vision plant would go in the direction of the cursor after 0.2 seconds when you hit it, cause it's clunky to use in the desired direction a lot of times.

But the healing plants needs drastics improvements or what I want, removal. There's no way they're going to be healthy as long as:

-Extremely accessible to laners, it's just in the river. -Extremely easy to grab by laners, literally just hit it once and pickup. -No trade-off and no a slow even if it was 99% for 1 second isn't enough of a drawback for laners. -Screws over globals -High HP and Mana Restore

I really dislike free hp and mana restore but I MIGHT tolerate it if only junglers could benefit from it. If they made it so smite holder could smite it but regain a charge(thus suffering the recast CD only) I think that would fix it immensely.

-Laners would need a jungler near which would make it safer sure but it wouldn't just be at their will to grab it.

-It wouldn't be easy since a jungler would need smite for it.

--A much larger trade-off since now a jungler would sacrifice smite for a few seconds which could matter immensely for some baron/dragon rushes.

-Globals would still somewhat get screwed over, but much less

-High HP and Mana restore could be fixed by halving the amount if you don't have smite. I'm fine with junglers having that sustain but not laners at all.