Why do I keep losing Late Game???

iLasVegas·Oct 3, 2016·1 votes·2,242 views

So I just played 2 ranked games: We won all of our lanes, got a pretty good advantage in turrets, dragons, baron, then in both games, we flopped our team fights and lost. It was crazy because we didn't expect to lose.

In the first game, my team was , and the enemy team was In the second game, my team was , and the enemy team was

I feel like as a nami support, I did all I could do in team fights. was our composition just really bad? How can I improve.

7 Comments

AwesomeChadOct 3, 20163 votes

Well laning phase doesn't equal mid-late game. You can win your lanes but still do a poor job of objective control/decision-making/rotations/teamfighting/playing comp properly. Basically, theres ALOT of reasons that can be why you're losing late game. For one, you need to understand that your focus/goal changes and differs between laning phase and mid-late game. After laning phase, you need to focus on objective control and playing your comp to its win condition. You need to be able to open up the enemies' base so you can get to their nexus. To accomplish that , you need to look at the tools at your disposal. What is going to allow you to get to the enemy's nexus?

Now, in the first game, your comp heavily depends on getting picks and snowballing objectives off of that. You have very high single target dmg with kha'zix and katarina. Teemo should be able to hold his own against a melee matchup and bully them in the early game. However, the major issue you face is that nami is the ONLY CC on your team and you guys DONT have a tank or any reliable hard engage. This means that again, your best bet is to go for picks. Set up vision control around the enemy jungle and catch the enemy when they're out of position and isolated. After getting the picks, pressure objectives with the jinx and let her dps down turrets. Now, taking into consideration the enemy team comp, the best thing to do is camp the mid lane and try to snowball the kat early so she can roam and affect the other lanes since she has the highest snowball (or get khazix fed). For you as the nami support, its all about timing your roams so you dont screw over your lane but are able to apply pressure in mid and help your team get ahead.

In the second game, your comp now has initiation with the annie ult stun (which you chain your CC with to guarantee your Q/ult hits). You guys also have 2 frontline champions so you can definitely force a fight. In the 5v5, you should naturally win if your team is focusing the backline. Your comp is better teamfight wise and annie should simply look to flash ult stun while the rest of you follow up and melt their squshies. Now heres some things you need to avoid against their comp:

Do not splitpush. They have way better 1v1 champions for that and thats not the strength of your comp anyhow.
Do not let them poke/kite you out. They have poor hard engage. Their win condition involves kiting/poking your team low enough so that they can win the fight if they engage. You MUST hard engage with the annie/nami ult.
Respect the kayle ult. In certain situations, you do not want to overcommit for a fight if the kayle ult is up and she is there to use it on herself or an ally. Always think about how to deal with the ult if she uses it and don't blow everything on the target that she ults until the ult wears off.

WarlockLawOct 3, 20162 votes

So for your first game, they had a better late game team comp. Poppy can cc and screw up your assassins. Trist and Lux are already extremely safe with their long range and kiting. Morg can just Ult + snare anyone that dives too deep then use her Zhonyas. Meanwhile trynd can just 1v1 anyone with his ult. You needed to end this game as fast as possible to win it, but your team didn't kill enough turrets. The biggest issue I see, is that Kha'Zix got a double kill on Poppy and Trynd at around 10:30. Your top laner was not dead, so I imagine Teemo was present and this happened near top lane. Teemo and Kha'Zix should have been able to take a turret off of this, or at least Rift Herald. Instead nothing is accomplished and it takes over 3 more minutes to get the first objective (dragon) and another 4 minutes for the first turret, which Morgana manages to trade a turret at the same time. At this point Trynd starts doing what Trynd does best, and destroys all hopes of winning a head on fight for the rest of the game.

For the second game, the first major issue I see is that 27 minutes into the game your team gets 3 kills and does nothing with that. Prior to that you have done something with every multi kill. In fact, you get no objectives in this stretch that spans around 24 minutes until 37 minutes, where you finally take Baron. Not sure what was happening during this time, but it looks like you had around 2 opportunities to push into turrets. Additionally you could have tried for drag as it should have spawned mid-way through this gap. Also in this time gap the enemy team manages to push in 3 turrets and pick up 2 kills with no loss of their own, this is a major up swing in momentum for them, especially if the turret the minions destroyed was in that lane too. Honestly, I'm not even sure what goes wrong from here on, because the kill spread seems to indicate that you lost to a split push despite winning team fights, yet it also shows that they won by running straight down mid lane. It seems as though Kayle was able to trade your inhib for Baron once, then take it again for free.

As for issues found in both games. You took Heal as support, which is bad because the second summoner spell Heal is reduced in strength by 50% when used to frequently, this makes double Heal bot extremely bad when compared to any other summoner spell + Heal combination. You should be taking Exhaust so that you can screw over their damage dealers and completely take them out of a fight. The next major issue for both games is your lack of warding/no sightstone. Sightstone is mandatory on supports. The free wards helps you get picks, prevent dragon/baron sneaks, prevents flanks, and gives your team better map control. At least placing the wards is also necessary for this, but you placed fewer wards than most of your teammates in either game. You also didn't buy any pink wards, which can help remove enemy wards. Speaking of which, supports should also be switching to Sweeping/Oracles Lens when they get their sightstone to help remove enemy wards at key points (baron/dragon).

One last thing. Buy some Runes. They can make a huge difference early game, and sometimes even late game (surviving by 1 hp/ dealing that extra 1 damage). This isn't a huge issue in either game as Runes are more about early game advantages, but it's still a worthwhile investment.

Asayake 5150glowOct 3, 20161 votes

{quoted}

So for your first game, they had a better late game team comp. Poppy can cc and screw up your assassins. Trist and Lux are already extremely safe with their long range and kiting. Morg can just Ult + snare anyone that dives too deep then use her Zhonyas. Meanwhile trynd can just 1v1 anyone with his ult. You needed to end this game as fast as possible to win it, but your team didn't kill enough turrets. The biggest issue I see, is that Kha'Zix got a double kill on Poppy and Trynd at around 10:30. Your top laner was not dead, so I imagine Teemo was present and this happened near top lane. Teemo and Kha'Zix should have been able to take a turret off of this, or at least Rift Herald. Instead nothing is accomplished and it takes over 3 more minutes to get the first objective (dragon) and another 4 minutes for the first turret, which Morgana manages to trade a turret at the same time. At this point Trynd starts doing what Trynd does best, and destroys all hopes of winning a head on fight for the rest of the game.

For the second game, the first major issue I see is that 27 minutes into the game your team gets 3 kills and does nothing with that. Prior to that you have done something with every multi kill. In fact, you get no objectives in this stretch that spans around 24 minutes until 37 minutes, where you finally take Baron. Not sure what was happening during this time, but it looks like you had around 2 opportunities to push into turrets. Additionally you could have tried for drag as it should have spawned mid-way through this gap. Also in this time gap the enemy team manages to push in 3 turrets and pick up 2 kills with no loss of their own, this is a major up swing in momentum for them, especially if the turret the minions destroyed was in that lane too. Honestly, I'm not even sure what goes wrong from here on, because the kill spread seems to indicate that you lost to a split push despite winning team fights, yet it also shows that they won by running straight down mid lane. It seems as though Kayle was able to trade your inhib for Baron once, then take it again for free.

As for issues found in both games. You took Heal as support, which is bad because the second summoner spell Heal is reduced in strength by 50% when used to frequently, this makes double Heal bot extremely bad when compared to any other summoner spell + Heal combination. You should be taking Exhaust so that you can screw over their damage dealers and completely take them out of a fight. The next major issue for both games is your lack of warding/no sightstone. Sightstone is mandatory on supports. The free wards helps you get picks, prevent dragon/baron sneaks, prevents flanks, and gives your team better map control. At least placing the wards is also necessary for this, but you placed fewer wards than most of your teammates in either game. You also didn't buy any pink wards, which can help remove enemy wards. Speaking of which, supports should also be switching to Sweeping/Oracles Lens when they get their sightstone to help remove enemy wards at key points (baron/dragon).

One last thing. Buy some Runes. They can make a huge difference early game, and sometimes even late game (surviving by 1 hp/ dealing that extra 1 damage). This isn't a huge issue in either game as Runes are more about early game advantages, but it's still a worthwhile investment.

Yo, you seem smart.

Why do Adc's take heal? Generally, when I adc I take exhaust for early kills (say with a thresh lane, double exhaust really screws over squishy immobile adc's/supps), barrier against burst, and cleanse against hard cc. But why heal? The movespeed feels negligable, especially since exhaust plays a dual role in gimping the enemy adc or assassin. And the life is just not very much.

WarlockLawOct 3, 20161 votes

The movement speed helps to evade skillshots. The extra health can allow for baiting your opponent (though exhaust can do this too). The fact that it hits both bot laners allows you to use it to save your support, assuming you aren't selfish. I imagine the damage prevented from an exhaust is comparable to the amount heal heals you for, if not outright higher, in the early game. Beyond that I'm not too sure, when I started playing adcs took ignite and supports had exhaust. Then they buffed heal and everyone had heal. Then they retuned some of its numbers and gave it the reduced healing when used too often and supports went back to exhaust.

SplashworksOct 3, 20161 votes

I won't get into the first game because it seems like you weren't very ahead in the first place but

The 2nd game you didn't get towers fast enough at all. You guys must have been hunting kills because you had a large gold lead but let the game go into 57 minutes where everyone is full build and team composition wins. They had a syndra, kayle and jinx who at that point in the game, do the most damage.

AkeneroOct 3, 20161 votes

For the first game, your team was incredibly squishy, and you guys didn't really have many ways to get to their carries, sure, you had kha to assassinate, but poppy can block that. Sure, you had katarina, but they also had heavy poke, and morgana could shield your ult, letting tristana fire away the entire time. That game was win hard, or get outscaled. Your second game had a much better team comp, two tanks, strong cc, and strong engage with sivir ult. But again, the enemy team outscaled you heavily, kayle SHREDS resistances, meaning it's harder to build against her, lee sin could peel for their carries, or bring yours to his team while lux and syndra poke everyone down, and Jinx is firing away with rockets. Looking at your match history, the first game you didn't buy sightstone, and trynd got super fed, while your kha was behind, so he couldn't assassinate anyone. During the second game, kayle got WAY out of hand, and you forgot sightstone again. I don't think it was your fault in either game, but nami may not have been the best choice. Something like a leona for the first game would be tanky enough to slow down trynd, and provide meaningful engage. The second game came down to scaling, you let the enemy team force down objectives pretty hard, and didn't react to, or had difficulty stopping the enemy team from farming. The team comps was good the second game, but you have to recognize the importance of keeping your towers up and running.

Takerial AkashiOct 3, 20161 votes

The first game, the gold difference was hardly anything. And champions like Kha and Kat are more designed to snowball games to a quick win. The fact that you guys didn't do that and allowed the enemy Trynd get fed to the point that he can just 1v5 was just bad play.

The second game you guys had a super massive lead, and didn't bother to finish properly with it. You basically just took a big dump on your lead.

And the enemy team was designed to do much better team fighting damage in the late game. Which is what happened.