"We're losing because you aren't warding enough"

Lv16 Flaaffy·Feb 18, 2015·72 votes·6,899 views

I can only place a maximum of 4 wards on the map.

Team: Report our support for being unskilled please.

..really..?

Literally every game I play I am the only one (except my adc, who is also my gf/duo/ex-supp main) who places wards and I get blamed for our bad gameplay because we don't have enough vision and my team loves entering areas they can't see.

Is warding really that hard of a concept or am I missing something?

edit: I'm seeing a lot of people state something about my recent match history and how my warding is bad. I do bots and custom matches, and these are matches where I practice the placement of wards to get the most vision.

111 Comments

AbyssphereFeb 18, 201562 votes

90% of the people who say that will never use their trinket.

It Is I EmotoFeb 18, 20152 votes

Neither would they buy the new enchantments for them, and the new Farsight orb one is so great tbh

Done25Feb 18, 201522 votes

Team mate: "Scrub Support. Why don't you have a sightstone, noob!" Me: "Why haven't you used/upgraded your yellow trinket?"

Kitten of EvilFeb 18, 20154 votes

Sightstone is only needed for the wards it provides. If the support is warding enough with item 3361 and item 2044 , the rest of the team shouldn't care how those wards are appearing. Sadly, you're right. Any scent of off-meta sends some players into a rampage.

1st HanarSpectreFeb 18, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kitten of Evil,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lxIph5GJ,comment-id=000000010000,timestamp=2015-02-18T17:54:35.569+0000)

Sightstone is only needed for the wards it provides. If the support is warding enough with and , the rest of the team shouldn't care how those wards are appearing. Sadly, you're right. Any scent of off-meta sends some players into a rampage.

If you get the greater vision totem though, you lose out on a sweeper, which is quite the valuable tool.

Done25Feb 18, 20155 votes

In my opinion the Marksman should be the one buying the sweeper because: A. They usually have the longest basic attack range. B. They usually buy attack speed, which means faster ward clearing.

GoumindongFeb 18, 20156 votes

No. Marksman is too important to place near bushes without vision. He takes blue trinket. Support gets sweeper and sightstone. One of top or mid or jungle gets yellow upgrade and the rest get sweepers.

Done25Feb 18, 20159 votes

And Sona is less likely to die while she takes twice as long to kill the revealed ward(s) because..?

GoumindongFeb 18, 20153 votes

To start: Because Sona has a speed up on her E, a heal and shield on her W, an AoE stun on her R and a sightstone providing vision and bonus HP as well as, likely, other defensive or semi-defensive items which champions that must multiplicative scale to succeed do not have.

Additionally; supports are not team fight priority since they do not provide primary consistent DPS and so losing one is not usually as painful as losing your number 1 or number 2 farm position champion.

So, in short, its less likely sona will die, and if she does die it damages your ability to play less than if your AD had.

StealWolverineFeb 19, 20152 votes

{quoted}

To start: Because Sona has a speed up on her E, a heal and shield on her W, an AoE stun on her R and a sightstone providing vision and bonus HP as well as, likely, other defensive or semi-defensive items which champions that must multiplicative scale to succeed do not have.

Additionally; supports are not team fight priority since they do not provide primary consistent DPS and so losing one is not usually as painful as losing your number 1 or number 2 farm position champion.

So, in short, its less likely sona will die, and if she does die it damages your ability to play less than if your AD had.

You know who puts out even less dps that a Sona in a teamfight? An adc who died because his peel was gone is the correct answer.

GoumindongFeb 19, 20154 votes

No. A Dead ADC plus Sona is less effective in a team fight than a dead Sona plus a live ADC. Even if the AD now has less peel than they would because of a lack of Sona W powerchord and E speed up they will still be more effective than already being dead.

Hyrum GraffFeb 19, 20152 votes

That thoroughly depends on the team comp. A sona ult (plus, a q-powerchord-aa on the enemy adc for good measure) can turn a teamfight. So can a well-positioned adc.

GoumindongFeb 19, 20152 votes

Sure. And that ability to Ult, E power chord run away is why you want Sona clearing wards and not Jinx. Its not just that you would rather have your ADC than the peel for the ADC, its also that your support is objectively safer clearing wards than your AD.

XimleeFeb 19, 20153 votes

Hehe. This box is so little! c:

AbyssphereFeb 19, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Hehe. This box is so little! c:

So is this one.

KaebiFeb 19, 20154 votes

As a gold1 support main I can tell you that is absolutely stupid.

Tin TarantinoFeb 19, 20151 votes

Sona isn't usually the only one hitting the ward, or shouldn't be at least, usually the sweeper is used to clear objectives or deny vision in an area after you've forced the enemy team out and she will normally have sight stone to get vision in brush, in duels it's better for the ADC to have the yellow or blue trinket to prevent enemies from being able to juke into brush or the fog of war.

PartholonianFeb 19, 20152 votes

In pro games, or arranged 5s, this is true. Maybe in diamond, too.

In most elos of soloq, you can't rely on anyone else going with you to either place or clear vision, but you're still held responsible for it anyway. Heck, half the time you can't get the team to come to the objective you've already gained vision control over, because they're too busy chasing someone into FoW.

GoumindongFeb 19, 20151 votes

Think of it this way, ignoring the fact that Sona is indeed less likely to die when clearing wards

If the support takes yellow trinket then you have no sightstone. If you have no sightstone then your overall vision control options are down from 6 items to 5 items, since no one else can effectively afford to buy a sighstone except maybe your jungler. If you take a sightstone you should take a sweeper, since the yellow trinket is redundant at that point.

If your support takes sightstone and sweeper then your AD doesn't need sweeper; its redundant because your AD and support will likely be working in tandem. The blue trinket, sightstone, and sweeper, can all combine so that the support and AD quickly and efficiently clear wards while having overall more utility.

Moreover, someone on the team needs to take a blue trinket. That person should be one who roams the least and makes plays with the team for objectives, since people who are roaming more need to sweep or place advance wards. The champion who roams the least and tends to be behind other champions the most is the AD, so they should be taking the blue trinket.

The overall vision issue becomes even more apparent as you add blue and yellow trinkets to the mix since it lowers your overall sweep capacity. Which lends more credence to the idea that supports should buy sightstone. And of course if supports are buying sightsone then they should also buy sweeper

High5Feb 19, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=1st HanarSpectre,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lxIph5GJ,comment-id=0000000100000000,timestamp=2015-02-18T20:16:33.294+0000)

If you get the greater vision totem though, you lose out on a sweeper, which is quite the valuable tool.

YES!!

SpookzieFeb 19, 20151 votes

For 250g you get 2 free wards every 60 seconds i believe. Best bang for your buck. Now if you have 3 Yellow trinks, that's 6 vision wards plus the extra 3 from sightstone, for a total of 9 wards on the map. That's not even counting pink wards.

It's just sad when you're maxed out on wards and your team still blames you for vision.

redniwediSFeb 18, 201557 votes

You are missing something. What you're missing is that there are a lot of idiots who play League.

Just mute those people and keep doing what you're doing.

SEKAIFeb 18, 201523 votes

One of the Riot's universal positively received creations imho is the trinkets.

It makes warding and vision control a team effort and it gets around the excuses of "soz I can't spend 75 gold on a ward" even when they clearly have a few item slots free atm, but yer,

To some, warding is a sin and they avoid it like the plague for whatever reason. You can only hope you run into them apes less.

Tbh though, even with trinkets here, everyone still need to get some wards if you have a few slots/gold to share. Unless the win/loss is so clear it no longer matters but still it would be a good idea.

TyrenFeb 18, 201522 votes

And then the laners complain when they get ganked.

PartholonianFeb 19, 20152 votes

{quoted}

To some, warding is a sin and they avoid it like the plague for whatever reason. You can only hope you run into them apes less.

Judging from some of the games I've seen with Malz on the other team, my teammates avoid warding much more effectively than they avoid the plague.

And it's not so much that it's a sin to them, as that it is a responsibility for lesser beings -- i.e. supports -- and touching it would demean them or something. Because they're supposed to be getting MAD KILLZ and carrying the game, not doing boring things like controlling the map and taking objectives.

Kitten of EvilFeb 18, 201511 votes

Finding people in solo queue (other than support) who will ward is a problem. I'm glad on the one hand that the per-person ward limit is 4, so support isn't just the ward bitch, but it forces some amount of reliance on the team.

I really hate discovering on Match History that I, the APC or top-laner, placed more wards than everyone but support. Or that our ADC placed a total of 1 ward throughout the whole game.

If your item 3340 is off CD, USE IT. It's not hard.

AnruiFeb 18, 20152 votes

I've played jungle games where I've placed more wards than the support, and unlike the support I have to buy all of my wards.

Kitten of EvilFeb 18, 20153 votes

Oh, no question some supports are bad too.

PartholonianFeb 19, 20156 votes

At any elo where you can't rely on your teammates to ward, I think item 2049 is a viable pick for any jungler, not just LeeSin . You can sell it at full build if you really need to.

AikidoLawnNinjaFeb 18, 20158 votes

If you're getting flamed by your team for not warding enough, and you're the only one who actually IS actively placing wards, simply point out to your idiot teammates that they can see just how much the vision deficit was THEIR fault by checking out the stats page after the match.

"We lost because I didn't ward enough? Well, the stats say I placed 34 wards over the course of the game. How many did YOU place? 2? Oh..."

High5Feb 19, 20152 votes

{quoted}

If you're getting flamed by your team for not warding enough, and you're the only one who actually IS actively placing wards, simply point out to your idiot teammates that they can see just how much the vision deficit was THEIR fault by checking out the stats page after the match.

"We lost because I didn't ward enough? Well, the stats say I placed 34 wards over the course of the game. How many did YOU place? 2? Oh..."

Yup, it didn't take long to look at the OPs page. He's not warding enough. I throw almost twice as many wards as a sup.

SecretAgentHulkFeb 18, 20154 votes

Apparently it really is that hard of a concept. I'm a support/top main, and I duo queue with a midlaner who wouldn't ward if it would save his life. Whenever he draws the short straw (support), he never even upgrades his warding trinket, let alone buy Sightstone, and I am right there to give him support tips and every game I tell him to buy Sightstone.

LintheFeb 18, 20153 votes

And ask them to ping where they want wards. I had a Lucian who (apparently) only wanted the middle of bot lane warded. Not drag, not the river, Not tri-bush, not baron.

Moral: Some people there is just no pleasing.

Killer X 12Feb 18, 20153 votes

lol, thats so dumb. Even when we had unlimited wards, it was still dumb to make one person ward everything. If i have extra money i buy wards even as the ADC. I do not fight without vision...which people also bitch about. "Why didn't you follow me?" "Because four of them are MIA and we have no wards"

....obv

High5Feb 19, 20152 votes

QFE. Great comment.

My personal favorite is when drag is up, the enemy disappears and my team decides it's time to start split pushing. That makes me sad.

Not hard to figure out what's going on ... even if no one warded drag.

[{quoted}](name=Killer X 12,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lxIph5GJ,comment-id=000f,timestamp=2015-02-18T19:57:03.198+0000)

lol, thats so dumb. Even when we had unlimited wards, it was still dumb to make one person ward everything. If i have extra money i buy wards even as the ADC. I do not fight without vision...which people also bitch about. "Why didn't you follow me?" "Because four of them are MIA and we have no wards"

....obv

SpookzieFeb 19, 20151 votes

Report nub no teamwork unskilled nab adc.

UnSeenDeath88Feb 18, 20153 votes

I made a post about this the other day, and got 1 comment, it's stupid. if support got sightstone, and everybody else got upgraded trinket at 9, and bought pinks you could have 20 wards on the map at one time, if the enemy doesn't do that there is no reason you shouldn't be able to win that game. On the flip side to your story I've had supports ask me to build tanky as Udyr jung, which of course I will after I get my Trinity, but then when I see they don't have sightstone I ask them to buy it and it's like I didn't even ask, or they buy it and never use, and I'm here trying to get money to get tanky and also buying stealth wards to get some vision on the map. If you are anything but the ADC I expect them to be warding, and if I see an adc buy wards, I generally think it's because nobody else is keeping up with putting wards down.

PartholonianFeb 19, 20152 votes

Rushing a damage item as Udyr seems questionable to me, although I suppose it might depend on team comp. Getting tanky before building item 3078 (one of the most expensive items in the game) might be a better choice.

Agree with most of the post though. And ADCs should ward too -- partly from trinkets, and partly whenever they have free space. They get more gold than anyone except sometimes mid, they can afford to spend 225 on a stack of wards that will probably prevent or set up at least one kill (maybe not for them, but still useful to the team) or objective.

RaxicorFeb 18, 20153 votes

Panth: I feel like I'm the only one warding. (Placed 2) Me(Sona, placed greens and pinks consistently): ...

Squ1zzleFeb 18, 20153 votes

http://wardscore.loltools.net/

Sp00ky SenpaiFeb 19, 20151 votes

I got an "Excessive" with 13 per game as tank and 27 per game as support. (i main support/top lane tank so im not surprised my other champ teirs arent listed. Apparently i ward more than "91% of players" and i still get bitched at for not warding enough :/

High5Feb 19, 20152 votes

{quoted}

I got an "Excessive" with 13 per game as tank and 27 per game as support. (i main support/top lane tank so im not surprised my other champ teirs arent listed. Apparently i ward more than "91% of players" and i still get bitched at for not warding enough :/

That's different. Look at the OPs match history. He's throwing about half that.

SpookzieFeb 19, 20151 votes

He did say he was in bot games practicing the placement of wards for optimal vision control.

WastelandKittahFeb 19, 20153 votes

there is no excuse for any player not to ward in season 5 not warding = assisting enemy team= greifing=report

don't ward? enjoy your ban and stop wasting my time in game

TweakatronicFeb 19, 20152 votes

{quoted}

there is no excuse for any player not to ward in season 5 not warding = assisting enemy team= greifing=report

don't ward? enjoy your ban and stop wasting my time in game

Agree 100% espcially when at level 9 you can upgrade the basic warding totem into a 2 charge refreshing warding machine. If you aren't the support, I mean. The support should go sightstone right away and upgrade to sweeping.

TweakatronicFeb 19, 20153 votes

You won't learn where is best to ward from bot games at all. Bots do not wander around the way an intelligent player will to try to gank a lane or ambush you en route to somewhere else. I doubt it is entirely your fault. Vision is everyone's responsibility and playing smart in areas that don't have enough vision for you to be there is every players responsibility. You cannot ward the whole map BUT you will eventually learn to read your enemies movements and your teams movements and ward key travel points and/or brush points in such a way to vastly increase your chances of not getting ganked or counter ganking as well as simply making an area safer than normal for those around it. If people go balls deep into an area, alone, with no vision, and enemies missing from the map, and they die, it is THEIR fault, not yours for not being able to light the entire map up like a billboard sign.

In short you can always learn to ward better but your teammates have to ward a little too as well as play smart around they vision they DO have instead of playing stupid around the vision they DON'T have and them blaming someone else for their mistake.

AFK PushFeb 18, 20152 votes

Just be happy that your adc isn't the one flaming you, that is usually the first one to flame you/never ward.

CoolKnightSTFeb 18, 20152 votes

This is what you do to figure out your team:

Add some point you sell your sightstone
Then you record your mini-map for 9 minutes

After 3 minutes all lights will be out. If not, wow honnor your team they figured out the game.

marshal the pyroFeb 19, 20152 votes

there is a reason why riot made a ward limit and trinkets they want the entire team to ward together not just the support. they should be placing the most wards with either a sightstone or by buying wards. but that is no excuse for everyone else to not ward.

WhiskeyAgogoFeb 19, 20152 votes

I've never gotten mad at a support who wards... I'll get frustrated when the support never pings, probably has everyone muted, and doesn't buy a sightstone or pink.

We really try not to spam chat, but it gets to the point where the mid has now bought a sightstone, and is trying to keep shit warded, then bot lane gets ganked. Support says/does nothing, wanders aimlessly away from adc.

THOSE are the complaints I have about support/wards. If I see a few wards in river/bot area, then I know they are trying at least!!