Boards›Gameplay

Riot pls: Runes are too damn expensive

LaserDeathBlade··104 votes·5,623 views

TL;DR Runes should be free because in a game in which all other conditions are constant (player ELO, champion viability, masteries etc), optimized runes are a huge tactical advantage.

Runes are fundamentally different from champions and shouldn't be subject to the IP costs. Most players main a small pool of champions, and theoretically the champions are supposed to be balanced. However, there are a huge set of rune combinations that offer strategic advantages for a specific champion and/or playstyle. Players should be free to experiment with their rune setup, as it's pretty much the only thing you'll start a game with that will offer significantly different stats/power from the other 9 players.

Ex: -A farm heavy jungle player will probably want AS Quints, a gank oriented player might want MS quints -A nasus player might want to offset Nasus's weak early game with Armor Quints, a Riven player is going to want AD Quints -A LB will value penetration runes more than an Orianna player -etc. etc.

Now let's discuss how astronomical rune costs currently are. A lot of more experienced players have forgotten the pain of grinding out IP, and need to be reminded.

Let's use this account as an example. I have a relatively small champion pool: -Top: Tryndamere, Jax -Mid: LeBlanc, TF -Jungle: Udyr -ADC: Vayne, Jinx -Support: LeBlanc

**Now let's calculate the cost of optimizing runes for my 7 champions, which is a far-cry from a big champion pool. **

The average game is ~30 minutes long. A 30 minute win grants 90 LP, a 30 minute loss grants 60 LP. You will average out at ~75 IP every 30 minutes of IN-GAME play - not including the time you spend in queue which can be anywhere between 2 and 15 minutes.

In other words, first win of the day aside, it takes ~164 In-game minutes to farm 410 LP, AKA the cost of the least expensive T3 Rune.

Let's start with the most basic rune page:

9 AD Reds (3690IP) : 49.2 games = 1476 minutes 9 Health Yellows (7380IP) : 98.4 games = 2952 minutes 9 Flat MR Blues : 738 minutes 3 AD Quints: 1230 minutes

This would work for Jinx

Now let's move on to Tryndamere . These are additional runes I would preferably swap out: 9 AS Reds : 1476 minutes 9 Armor Yellows : 738 minutes 9 AS blues : 1476 minutes 3 LS Quints : 2460 minutes

Now Jax : 3rd Rune Page : 2520 minutes 3 AS Quints: 1230 minutes

Leblanc : 4th Rune Page: 2520 minutes 9 Hybrid Penetration: 2952 minutes 3 AP Quints : 1230 minutes

TwistedFate : 5th Rune page : 2520 minutes 3 MS Quints : 2460 minutes 9 M.Pen Reds : 1476 minutes 9 Scaling Health Yellows : 1476 minutes

Udyr : 6th Rune page : 2520 minutes 6 CDR Blues : 1968 minutes

Vayne : Nothing, luckily

So to set up my preferred runes, it'd take: ** 105,400 IP 1405 Games 42,160 minutes 702 Hours 29 Days** Just to build optimal rune pages for my pool of 7 Champions.

Are some of these runes absolutely necessary? Yes - In fact most of them are, that is, if you want to win. Some champions benefit so greatly from a unique rune page that you're really just shooting yourself in the foot without a proper page. (Ex: Trynd)

Are all of these runes absolutely necessary? No - not really, but they are really desirable to me as a player because it allows me to play with a distinct style.

Ok, so I'm no fool - I just paid RP for my 7-rune page bundle, I've purchased IP boosts, and I actually bought a lot of my champions with RP so it doesn't actually take me like 30 straight days in-game to farm my runes; But make no mistake, Runes are definitely passing into the territory of 'pay to win', and a great deal of players aren't really willing to dish out the big RPs just for runes.

98 Comments

Kira Onime35 votes

I'd rather see tier 2 runes removed entirely and tier 3 dropped to tier 2 price.

Dies to Wolves12 votes

I'd rather see tier 2 runes removed entirely and tier 3 dropped to tier 2 price.

yes, that'd be great

or at the very least, riot should normalize all rune costs to the lowest possible (that is, NO 820 runes and 2k quints, that's just retardedly nonsensically expensive)

Kira Onime5 votes

I'd rather see tier 2 runes removed entirely and tier 3 dropped to tier 2 price.

yes, that'd be great

or at the very least, riot should normalize all rune costs to the lowest possible (that is, NO 820 runes and 3k quints, that's just retardedly nonsensically expensive)

Max quints are 2k but still, bloody expensive. 3 quints is basically a new champion.

Legostrike15 votes

This post is very true, and don't tell me it isn't. Free? I don't think so. But reduce price? MY GOD PLEASE YES.

Gorzke10 votes

In my opinion they should make 6 Free Basic Rune Pages : "Support" "Marksman" "Assasin" "Tank" " Fighter" and "Mage"

With Fixed, unmodificable Runes (You DON'T own those runes nor the rune pages, you have to buy those runes if you want your own, customized rune page).

This wouldn't fix the problem of expensive runes and rune pages (Which isn't a problem to Riot, Mon€y$), but would make the game fair.

TheRainInSpain3 votes

Support, Fighter, Marksman, Assassin, Tank, Bruiser, and Mage.

"Fighter" currently classifies bruisers and 'fighters' (melee ADC's). Master Yi and Nautilus are two totally different champions despite both being classified as the same kind of champion.

Gorzke3 votes

Well, that is why Master Yi can pick Marksman and Nautilus can pick Tank rune pages . I see no problem there.

TheRainInSpain2 votes

Well, from the "Basic rune page" standpoint, there isn't much difference in the early early game between champions. The main difference is between AD and AP.

But to new players, the difference between the champions in general (early to late game) is a pretty big deal. Shall we get a Nautilus ADC meta going?

GetToTheLantern2 votes

I think your on to something give people rune pages for all the roles with cheap little runes that are something but not that much to completely put other runes out and if you want, buy new runes to tweak the page over time so people can build there page without having none. OR you can give them the rune pages with the roles like let's say tank with a couple of .45 (or whatever it is) Armor and MR and leave the rest open for them to fill so your not completely lost without any and needing IP bad.

Gorzke2 votes

My idea is not to give 6 rune pages to everyone. It's to have 6 fixed,l Locked and unmodifiable rune pages with runes you don't own for each "Class" of champions, with the freedom of choosing any of them with any champion so like @theraininspain (a lot, BTW) said, Nautilus and Master Yi don't have to go with the same rune page.

They could even add to the tutorial "You have picked Garen! It's time to choose your rune page. As Garden is a Tank champion, you should pick the Tank rune page" so new people understands the usefulness of rune pages.

yellowbricks9 votes

Runes are a terrible barrier to entry for this game, it takes forever, it's boring, and if you don't know what you're doing, you'll spend lots of IP on shit runes before you realize (burden of knowledge anyone?). Runes are like taxes, the most boring, unrewarding waste of IP ever, but you gotta do it otherwise you'll just instantly lose every game.

disregardable8 votes

Or, you could just be like everyone else and run standard AP/AD rune pages.

FunshineBear19802 votes

Or, you could just be like everyone else and run standard AP/AD rune pages.

This ^^

LEADlNG4 votes

Or, you could just be like everyone else and run standard AP/AD rune pages.

I do his idea above and swap out each champ with the right rune page.

I'd like to atleast have a reduced price for runes though OR increase the IP winning prizes each game. ^

Toa of Death8 votes

At least reduce the price of rune pages. 6300 IP for one Rune Page is just too much.

Colgate Gator7 votes

Pretty sure the whole point of them is so you grind, remember this is a free to play game.

The thing that pisses me off about the runes though is that runes lvl 1 and 2 are major noob traps, there's absolutely no sense in getting them. You could at least make lvl 1-2 runes upgradeable if you really want to keep them at the store, Riot.

Sir Bulldog1 votes

Pretty sure the whole point of them is so you grind, remember this is a free to play game.

The thing that pisses me off about the runes though is that runes lvl 1 and 2 are major noob traps, there's absolutely no sense in getting them. You could at least make lvl 1-2 runes upgradeable if you really want to keep them at the store, Riot.

I "believe" that when you combine lvl 1 and lvl 2 runes (with the rune combiner), you have a small chance of getting a lvl 2 and a lvl 3 rune respectively But don't quote me on this, I'm not sure it's true, but I thought I got a lvl 2 by combining two lvl 1's when I first started playing

EndlessSorcerer4 votes

You have a 100% chance of getting a rune of the next tier when you combine 5 runes from the previous tier. The setback is that you cannot control what rune you will get, as it is randomized.

windwolf7771 votes

Pretty sure the whole point of them is so you grind, remember this is a free to play game.

Counter Argument, as is Dota.

The thing that pisses me off about the runes though is that runes lvl 1 and 2 are major noob traps, there's absolutely no sense in getting them. You could at least make lvl 1-2 runes upgradeable if you really want to keep them at the store, Riot.

And I agree on the upgrading 100%. I actually think they should remove the limit on runes that you can have and give a full 9 set of all t1 runes just so you can experiment and see what you like. Maybe once you hit level 30 or give you something like, 1x of every type of t1 rune per unlock slot. So something like, you have 1 of all t1 reds to start, level 2, one of every t1 blue, lv 3 yellow, .... lv 10 quint, and so on.

FlubbyDG7 votes

"Don't worry guys, we promise to never sell power"

IP boosts, rune pages, starter runes for RP. Valve can, with complete honesty, say they don't sell power. Riot can't.

MrSlowDie4 votes

If they give my IP back when they make it free, I am fine with that

Rustling Bush1 votes

If they give my IP back when they make it free, I am fine with that

think of it like this, if a law was made and you broke it before it become a law, you won't be arrested. so in other words, if riot went through with this, you nor anyone else would not be refunded

MrSlowDie6 votes

If they give my IP back when they make it free, I am fine with that

think of it like this, if a law was made and you broke it before it become a law, you won't be arrested. so in other words, if riot went through with this, you nor anyone else would not be refunded

but I am a buyer, not a law breaker, If nothing refunded then you are killing me, new players as well, I am new to this game, I grind this shit out of my IP, unlocked the 3rd rune page, bought sets of runes for AD, AP, and Tank, I haven't complete my fav Champion in each role for this rune, and for all I have done nothing refunded ?? WTF !!

FunshineBear19803 votes

If you bought cereal from the grocery store for $5, and next week it went on sale for $3, the store isn't going to refund you $2.

Mikal Pikal2 votes

I know its not your point...but stores often do this. I bought a TV from Costco for $800. A month later my mom saw the exact same TV on sale for $600. I expected the same thing as you and would never have pressed the issue since I paid what I was willing to pay at the time and didn't feel "ripped off." Costo ended up giving me $200 in cash.

1 800 Deleted4 votes

I agree with many of the others in saying that we should lower the price, people would for sure appreciate that. It would also help with the diversity of people's champion pools.

KzooCrasher4 votes

Runes definitely aren't pay to win... Nothing but cosmetics in this game are bought only through money. So you lose all credibility to me when you start even rumoring pay to win. I have no problem at all with any of riots pricing. This game takes THOUSANDS of games to get very very good at so the idea that you always have things to buy is nice for me. I finally bought my final champion today and now i need to buy a ton of runes. I love the fact that I have every champion and still have a lot to buy and more to do. Riot needs income. The pricing model gets people to spend money on RP without forcing them to do it. This post is just another omg IP farm QQ. Look if you think this game feels grindy then its not your kind of game. I've played thousands of games never once felt like i was grinding IP not once, that is great game design.

Junkο4 votes

The problem with runes is that all the old players with 100k+ unused IP will get mad at how much they had to grind for them back in the day and if refunds are given out they will complain about how they don't benefit from them at all. Also refund on runes would allow people to buy at least 4 6300 IP champions which would lose Riot money.

Still i hope one day runes will be deleted from the game entirely and masteries will get buffs to compensate for some of them.

AtheosisX3 votes

I generally agree they should be free or much cheaper than at present, but this game has been out around 5 years now and this has not been changed so don't hold your breath. Besides, are they going to refund all the people who have spent absurd amounts of IP on runes? Otherwise that would kind of suck honestly.

Quepha3 votes

last season riot said they were going to rework runes to make them feel better for the player. all they did was nerf ls quints and armor seals because they were must buy on a ton of champions. all that did was change what the most powerful runes are and people still hate them.

this season it sounds like riot doesn't care about runes at all and is just going to leave them hurting the player experience for another year.

PhoenixOfHeaven3 votes

If anything is done, be it a price drop, valu drop, or complete removal, I want an IP refund. I could have bought some champs with the runes I bought.....

Quepha4 votes

If anything is done, be it a price drop, valu drop, or complete removal, I want an IP refund. I could have bought some champs with the runes I bought.....

i'd prefer getting a refund if runes were removed (i've probably spent enough IP on runes to afford 4-6 6300 champs), but even removing runes with no refund would be better than leaving them in the game.

Drukyul3 votes

But if they make runes free, how can we rebuild Canada?

Matsoman3 votes

Yes please. I enjoy having a life and not spending 3 seasons of my life trying to get max runes.

slippykitten2 votes

I fundamentally disagree with the idea of runes. Anyone who has played any mmo at all knows that choice is an illusion for the idiot. There is always one choice that is actually strongest because nothing is ever truly balanced perfectly.

So all runes do is create another barrier for players to go study, learn, and grind ip for to get on equal footing as the other players. There is only choice if you want to be less than optimal.

Grimspeake2 votes

even by buying IP boosts it still takes forever, for fucks sake i want more then 2 rune pages already and ive been playing the game for half a year.

PoisonedPeace3 votes

I've been playing for over 2 years and still only have 2 rune pages xD

Long Dong Wukong2 votes

Save your IP, buy pages when they go on 2 for 1 sales.

This is necessary, because you can't properly counter your lane opponent without access to enough runes.

Sammystorm1 votes

this is silly. You can properly counter your opponent with any basic combination of runes. having garbage runes just means you have a garbage early game. Although I agree runes should be free I do not think the arguments you make are legitimate

Long Dong Wukong1 votes

You can believe whatever you want to believe, but facts are facts regardless of whether you like them or not.

Sammystorm1 votes

k what are some lanes that you can't properly counter with basic rune pages?

PoisonedPeace1 votes

Well you presented an opinion, so calm down junior.

CentralHighSchoo2 votes

if you play for fun, IP comes naturally

yellowbricks2 votes

I can't believe people are defending this retarded rune system.

Love this whole "fuck you got mine" mentality of bronzies who just want to stomp newbies who actually have lives and can't grind out a billion up for some shitty hexagons. Or this ADD "everything has to have progression grinding because it gives me a sense of worth when I buy a new 0.001 ad rune". I swear, they could make phreak's head block your whole game screen every game until you pay 100000 ip and people would just eat that shit up.

Giovarco2 votes

The problem is runes page cost. 6300 PI? Riot pls ...

Direwolfiez2 votes

Made a thread about the possibility of having runes go on sale every week, and I got 2 downvotes within 5 minutes and two replies. People don't care if they have all the runes they want, because fuck anyone that isn't them.

metaworldpeace102 votes

I've played for two full seasons and I have 6 rune pages and a little over half the champion roster. It's ridiculous at how much runes cost. There are too many champions in the game that require specific runes.

chumbler2 votes

Responses to "Runes should be free or flat out not exist" threads are great indicators for whose opinions should be completely ignored. Anyone who says they shouldn't be free is a complete idiot whose thoughts should never be considered to have even a shred of value.

Gallowgrim1 votes

For what it's worth I just hit twenty a day or two back and started rune-collecting - and have been able, with FWotD to have filled my Marks and almost filled my Seals on my first Runepage, planning to fill te three basics and then save up for Quints after that; usually managing a small rune per day of playing on somewhere less than 2 hours a day.

Wouldn't complain about them being cheaper, but wouldn't call it a necessity. Gives a sense of progress and achievement, even for a "casual" player like myself, to see that page slowly fill up.

Granted I started banking IP about 75% through 18th level, but that was only around 1.4k IP or so, give or take.

I've seen much worse "grinds", and as its a function of playing the game - if you love what you do you never work a day in your life, y'know? Not liek its some repetitive farm or something.

Direwolfiez3 votes

I dislike having to choose between buying a champ I want to play and buying runes for champs I want to play. People flame if you don't have runes for a champ. Sound like fun?

More from Gameplay

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay764 comments
7,167
votes
3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay156 comments
3,510
votes
UPVOTE FOR URF
Gameplay606 comments
2,440
votes
Yes plz.
Gameplay456 comments
1,721
votes
3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay114 comments
1,716
votes
When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?
Gameplay634 comments
1,383
votes

More by LaserDeathBlade

As a Plat 1 Yasuo main with 400+ Yasuo games, Yasuo needs a damn rework.
Gameplay357 comments
823
votes
Given the general discontent with Zed, why do we tolerate these hyper-mobile caster ADCs?
Gameplay62 comments
45
votes
Let's appreciate how good match making really is in LoL
Gameplay47 comments
31
votes
Marksmen don't need a buff, supports need (another) rework
Gameplay37 comments
30
votes
The high skill cap champions are NOT OP, get over yourselves
Gameplay43 comments
9
votes
Can we please NOT buff Right-Clicking?
Gameplay37 comments
7
votes