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Very important Discussion with other supports and junglers for insight

EvilRabbitt··3 votes·733 views

I noticed a lack of a certain key skill in supports. Roaming.

            Most supports (the ones who don't let me support, which is why I am maining the role) think that Support=SUPPORT BUILD+ ADC BABYSITTER. This is untrue and perverse. Yes, support builds exist for a reason. Yes, you do babysit your adc. But you also ~NEED TO ROAM~. Junglers can't be everywhere, and lanes are bound to fall behind at some point (or need that extra umph to take objectives). Once the adc you started bot lane with (or top if you invert for giggles) has reached a point where they can farm in safety, you -as support- MUST roam. You have to go help other people. That's why a lot of support kits have hard cc. That's why Bard was created. To assist in the snowball of other teammates. 

         Thoughts? I started roaming and, in the games where I do, there was a trend- I won. The games I did not roam in, I lost by huge margins. Granted, this is bronze. But still- no one expects a 2 man mid lane gank at 9 minutes. Supports- what do you think? Junglers, would you appreciate a second ganker? Or this something very stupid/off-meta that I need to stop doing right this second....? Thanks for your time. Tried to make constructive thread. Please no flaming, trolling, or use of the words "Yolo" "Swag" "ROFLCOPTER" or the combination of "YOLOSWAGROFLCOPTERMAOSTEIN"- it's dangerous. =P

Edit: So someone got offended. Not sure how. As stated- this is purely constructive to get response/thoughts/criticism. Politely. So to clarify-

EDIT: TL;DR- My premise~~~ Supports should take opportune moments to roam to mid lane (and possibly top if successful enough) and apply pressure. Applying pressure to other lanes via roaming eases the pressure on junglers and has the possibility of getting a 3rd roamer (you, jungler, mid) that will end with the laning phase shutting down rapidly. I believe this to be why Bard was created. The meta is adjusting solely around Dragon applying more benefits, which means you have to pressure everything a bit harder to be more secure. Please, respond constructively, politely, and with thoughts. Enjoy your days.

EDIT AGAIN: Please don't just bounce through and downvote because you can. Constructive threads are the most helpful in my opinion, so if you downvote it will make them vanish. That will deny any opportunities to advance the meta (or destroy it). If you downvote, at least leave a reply as to why. If you have a moment, upvote. Thanks again.

13 Comments

B3ER2 votes

I think it's very important that you communicate this with your teammates and that THEY know how to play this roam. When you leave lane, you create a vulnerability that your opponents can exploit, which would essentially negate your efforts. You need to understand your success conditions and how achievable they are. Your team also needs to ward up well to make this play happen.

Even if it isn't possible to get a kill, a 2 man gank can push the opposing mid/top out of lane and suddenly you have 3 people there to take the tower. Make sure your team can negate the response of the opposing team in time. These responses may be along the lines of towerdiving your adc or taking drag.

EvilRabbitt1 votes

Of course, communication is key. I think, cruel as it may be, trading my adc (early) for a mid (early) and tower is a powerful trade. Same for drag. It's a single buff, easy to obtain solo at any point if your team knows you're doing so. But that's what I was getting at. It's better to mobilize your team early as possible. You don't want to sit in lane forever.

Nameless Voice1 votes

I'd say that your job as a support is to support your team, not just your ADC.

Especially if you find yourself alone in bot lane (your ADC and the enemies all recalled or died) and you don't want to recall, you should always roam mid and try to gank, or just wander around placing wards until you're needed in the lane again.

TakaDama1 votes

As a jungler main and support secondary, I have to say that I agree to an extent. The biggest difference between the jungler and any laner, including the support, is that the jungler has the upper hand in terms of hidden information due to the fog of war covering the jungle. As such, when a support goes missing for too long, the enemy team will either capitalize on their absence or play more conservatively until the support returns into vision.

However, that is not to say that roaming is a bad idea for supports: in fact, I'd say a support acts as an anti-jungler, being able to provide and maintain vision at key areas more so than any other position or role. While, from what I've seen, most supports understand this from a bot-only perspective (warding river in case of ganks, etc.), it's only when the team-fights are already under way that the support actually wards objectives like dragon, buffs, and Baron.

In short, this makes a lot of sense, but not as a second jungler. I'll have to incorporate this into my support gameplay.

EvilRabbitt1 votes

=) thanks for the constructive response. I do agree the vision bit comes into question, but if you're capable of moving quickly when minions or vision vanish bot lane (like when you, the jungler, comes and sweeps the bush for wards and/or ganks) odds are that you will manage at least a presence into mid lane. And, per the response to "Kitten of Evil", if I get the mid laner to roam as well we can capitalize on vision lack and denial as well as hefty objective control.

Can't wait to hear your results =).

TakaDama1 votes

Thanks. I only have one game under my belt as a roaming support, so my findings are still anecdotal and inconclusive, but I'm liking the improvement in strategic value so far.

If you're going to roam, though, I definitely recommend focusing on establishing vision and counter-vision first before attempting to gank or counter-gank. Reason being that, as a support, your damage output and survivability is usually negligible compared to the jungler's by the time you're able to roam, meaning you're reliant on the condition of the lane you're ganking in order to make said gank successful.

This somewhat plays into the "anti-jungler" role I mentioned before (or may just be confirmation bias on my part), except instead of countering the lack of vision on the jungler with wards, the roaming support can foil a gank by supporting the lane that is being ganked via CC, sustain, or other utility.

EvilRabbitt1 votes

Which one did you use? So far, I have success as Leona (post cinderhulk), Annie, and I think Karma.

TakaDama1 votes

http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/1785140156/32945846?tab=overview

Sona in the linked match. Though, that may be because Sona's only CC is her ult, and her only damage other than that is her Q and power chord basic attack.

Kitten of Evil1 votes

I think the problem is that many ADCs need a babysitter. They either can't or won't play passively while you're gone. I've had ADCs die when I just roam up to ward dragon, even when I ping "I'm going to go ward dragon".

EvilRabbitt1 votes

That's half the problem. What I noticed when I started roaming (of course roaming at optimal times not like "oh hey, double kill incoming guess I better let my adc drown") is that if I could free mid lane, they roamed as well and we quickly ended laning phase on our side. We go from 1 jungler bouncing through the map, to 1 jungler and 1 support, to 1 jungler 1 support 1 midlaner, then we ended lane phase. Meanwhile the other side is getting ganked left and right. If my adc died, but I could get mid tower and get mid a kill- I counted it as a success. To me, mid is more important than adc early- adc is more important mid game- tank is most important late. Those are my priorities- are they right?

Kitten of Evil2 votes

I mean, I think it depends on the champion. If your mid is, say, Anivia, then late game is what she's going for. Cait and Varus usually are great early but fall off later, while Vayne scales amazingly into late game. So you have to evaluate your teamcomp and theirs. Different comps hit their power spike at different time.

In general though, I'd say mid early is important, but after mid, tanks are important mid-game (because that's when they're tanky enough to be disruptive but carries haven't gotten Void Staff/LW yet), and carries are important late-game.

Raptamei1 votes

{quoted}

I noticed a lack of a certain key skill in supports. Roaming.

            Most supports (the ones who don't let me support, which is why I am maining the role) think that Support=SUPPORT BUILD+ ADC BABYSITTER. This is untrue and perverse. Yes, support builds exist for a reason. Yes, you do babysit your adc. But you also ~NEED TO ROAM~.

Whenever we leave lane for any reason, including placing a ward, the adc gets immediately rekt and rages/reports us. And now you're whining that we need to roam or we're unskilled?

Fuck you.

EvilRabbitt1 votes

I never said unskilled. I never said insult or implied rudeness, and I also explicitly asked for politeness. Thank you for your time and trying to understand what I said, enjoy your day and we love you.

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