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The context for Swain's nerf

For Carthage··5 votes·758 views

Since you're all asking about the context for Swain's nerf, I guess I might as well do it myself since who knows when Rioters will respond.

If you take a look at the Deathfire Touch keystone mastery, it does some damage. Admittedly mediocre damage, but damage nonetheless.

What Swain would generally do in lane before this existed: W your ass to maximize his DoT damage on you and generally bully you out of lane if you couldn't straight burst him or halt him during his combo.

What he does with this mastery: Same thing but now deletes half your health before you can reasonably react since his DoT damage on DoT damage will reapply Deathfire Touch on each tick. Couple this with Swain's E increasing all the damage to the target that Swain deals and it hits pretty damn hard.

Now throw in that his favorite role is top-lane where generally he's facing melee champions with minimal burst to their name and you've now created a late-game champ with a nightmarishly oppressive lane, which leads to a late-game champ that gets fed and snowballs to absolute hell.

If your ADC doesn't then straight up rush Mortal Reminder and solely focus Swain (who could probably just one-combo him/her after that point), then you're not shutting down Swain.

This nerf is meant to make it harder for Swain to maximize his optimal damage with his tether and make it so enemies can actually react when he snares from afar and makes his move up to start piling on the DoT's. It is only going to make it harder for him to maximize his laning damage, but will not necessarily nerf his damage in the long run if he uses what's considered to be his secondary combo (walk up, E and Q them to slow, W them while they're slowed to land it easier, continue to auto them while they're still affected by E).

That is the context - it is not because he is necessarily overpowered or even over-popular - it's because he had the LeBlanc issue where his laning phase became such a terror in the hands of anybody even moderately decent with him that it was nearing anti-fun.

Please note I am not saying that he is the only one to be like this currently (hi, Yasuo) and that I'm not saying I'm content that those others were not addressed as well as they damn well should be - I am only here to explain what changed this pre-season to warrant a sudden nerf to Swain. I am just the messenger here.

15 Comments

Sir Hammerlock3 votes

I'm upset that they are so quick to nerf Swain and Brand now that they're good laners after so long of being not-so-good or popular.

But apparently it's OK for Yasuo to continue to have the whole anti-fun aspect of his laning phase, though.

For Carthage1 votes

I absolutly agree that Yasuo should be directly addressed instead of trying to dance around him by "nerfing" his primary (and basically only) keystone.

However, Brand and Swain were both very strong champions last season - just not popular. Brand saw time as a support, though I never agreed with it - he did so good as a mid-lane mage with the Rylai's/Liandry's/Luden's combo that his place in the tank meta was unshakeable. He has always just suffered from the problem of being predictable as a mage (which some people would bypass by maxing out his E in order to guarantee lane-bullying and free damage). With these kinds of winrates (honestly, 56% is pretty high) on a largely skillshot mage with an ult known to be one of the most fallible ults in the game (seriously, the fizzle rate on this baby is astronomical), it's a testament to his damage output - which is to say it is high enough to, in most cases, make up for any of his innate fallibilities (and he has a lot that need making-up for). The reason you didn't see Brand last year hardly at all (if at all even) in the LCS is the same reason as Lux, though - while both were strong, both could fail, and when you're trying to win a championship, you're not looking to gamble, you're looking for the most guaranteed results.

So while I don't believe Brand should straight out not be strong at all (and I am quite happy to see him become the inferno of terror that he deserves to be), I can say most certainly that his current state is far too punishing. Swain has a similar issue to this but takes longer to warm up than Brand, so is still vulnerable unless he gets far enough ahead - which is not especially difficult as it stands currently.

So both kind of needed the nerfs, though Brand's nerf I don't think is correctly placed if I'm being honest - again, a very reliable way for Brand to succeed is maxing his E first, which still gives a solid amount of damage and is a guaranteed hit. I'm a bit worried that Riot will overnerf Brand at this point - but let's hope that the keystone nerf on the PBE is enough to bring him into satisfactory range.

KONO RUBICK DA3 votes

deathfire is already nerfed on PBE

swain's root had nothing to do with it

swain's snare shouldn't be nerfed

For Carthage1 votes

Deathfire Touch in concept simply synergizes with DoT mages, similar to Liandry's Torment. Contrary to Liandry's however, Deathfire Touch does not fall off in damage as a target gets lower in health.

The reason Deathfire Touch is getting nerfed next to Swain is because they are trying to - for once - hit the cause of the issue before really resorting to attacking the champ for synergizing with it. The issue with going too far in nerfing Deathfire Touch, however, is that it will make it completely unviable for anybody but the ones who synergize with it, and even then you might find that the ones who synergize with it wind up gravitating towards the alternative keystones simply because you've nerfed Deathfire so much it's just not worth it. So the only reasonable course of action is hit both in tandem - a small nerf to Deathfire's damage while giving a small nerf to Swain's reliability in dishing out that huge damage.

Would you rather they hit Swain's damage instead of his early utility? Because as is, his up-front damage is not what's strong - it's the total damage over the duration. So he's not bursting people, he's throwing heavy sustained damage out. If that damage then only matches that of other champs and doesn't have increased returns for their delayed satisfaction, his laning would become horrible as basically any champ would feel free to just all-in him and feel safe in the fact they can get their maximum return much quicker than Swain can while almost always outdoing him.

If this isn't a clear explanation, let me know so I can give examples to clarify.

KONO RUBICK DA3 votes

[{quoted}](name=For Carthage,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ljEyOvYW,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2015-11-24T14:03:02.347+0000)

Deathfire Touch in concept simply synergizes with DoT mages, similar to Liandry's Torment. Contrary to Liandry's however, Deathfire Touch does not fall off in damage as a target gets lower in health.

The reason Deathfire Touch is getting nerfed next to Swain is because they are trying to - for once - hit the cause of the issue before really resorting to attacking the champ for synergizing with it. The issue with going too far in nerfing Deathfire Touch, however, is that it will make it completely unviable for anybody but the ones who synergize with it, and even then you might find that the ones who synergize with it wind up gravitating towards the alternative keystones simply because you've nerfed Deathfire so much it's just not worth it. So the only reasonable course of action is hit both in tandem - a small nerf to Deathfire's damage while giving a small nerf to Swain's reliability in dishing out that huge damage.

Would you rather they hit Swain's damage instead of his early utility? Because as is, his up-front damage is not what's strong - it's the total damage over the duration. So he's not bursting people, he's throwing heavy sustained damage out. If that damage then only matches that of other champs and doesn't have increased returns for their delayed satisfaction, his laning would become horrible as basically any champ would feel free to just all-in him and feel safe in the fact they can get their maximum return much quicker than Swain can while almost always outdoing him.

If this isn't a clear explanation, let me know so I can give examples to clarify.

i would hit nothing, because swain is a champion with more counterplay than anybody beside sion and bard.

if only EC didn't have 2% pick rate

For Carthage2 votes

That's actually wrong. Grossly wrong.

Swain has very little counterplay, honestly - he has a lot of counter-building currently is the thing. The previous "counterplay" was to just blow him up before he outdamaged you - a strategy that is stateable on basically any champ in the entire game. Kill them before they kill you.

The reason this was even accepted was because notoriously, despite having very strong bullying against immobile champions, he was very, very easy to 2v1 - so unless he was reasonably well fed in laning, he would have a rough time in the latter part of the early game and into the middle game until he finally got his core items, both rather expensive. He actually has stronger bases than just about every champ besides him with the only stipulation being time - it takes time for the damage to take effect. It's delayed. It is not an immediate 100-0, it is a ticking clock where you can react, but your reaction could very well mean next to nothing.

As it stands, his base damage is now heavily exasperated, allowing him to secure a lead for himself and basically strong-head his way to his primary items. A late-game champ is not supposed to do that, and Yasuo and Vayne doing it are not any more okay than with Swain doing it.

But everyone's been so focused on Grievous Wounds being a counter to Swain that they forgot that it's on an item for ADC's that are susceptible to melting before Swain and that really cannot afford to build that as a first item - honestly, building Mortal Reminder as a first item against a Swain dooms you to doing almost no meaningful damage for the next 10-15 minutes as you repeatedly get punished for making that choice. Executioner's calling is hardly a good first-rush item either, and delays an ADC's damage by more than people would care to admit - building to counter Swain right now actually hurts you more than it helps you, and with this kind of early-game might that he's suddenly found himself endowed with, he's free to make sure you never find yourself in a good enough spot to do so without basically castrating yourself.

The honest reason Swain is getting hit harder than Brand is right now while Brand is winning much harder, though - and this is just a matter of veritable fact - is that Swain's incredibly reliable in getting his damage out. Two of his abilities are point-and-click, and his ult is basically an AoE aura. His W is the only skill-based ability, and it actually synergizes so well with his Q (his Q applying a very strong slow that makes it very easy to hit his W while it's in effect) that hitting it is actually pretty reliable as well.

The next nerfs you'll see on Brand will more than likely be to his E - that I can almost guarantee. Why? Because it's his most reliable damage.

KONO RUBICK DA3 votes

[{quoted}](name=For Carthage,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ljEyOvYW,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2015-11-24T14:36:30.104+0000)

That's actually wrong. Grossly wrong.

Swain has very little counterplay, honestly - he has a lot of counter-building currently is the thing. The previous "counterplay" was to just blow him up before he outdamaged you - a strategy that is stateable on basically any champ in the entire game. Kill them before they kill you.

The reason this was even accepted was because notoriously, despite having very strong bullying against immobile champions, he was very, very easy to 2v1 - so unless he was reasonably well fed in laning, he would have a rough time in the latter part of the early game and into the middle game until he finally got his core items, both rather expensive. He actually has stronger bases than just about every champ besides him with the only stipulation being time - it takes time for the damage to take effect. It's delayed. It is not an immediate 100-0, it is a ticking clock where you can react, but your reaction could very well mean next to nothing.

As it stands, his base damage is now heavily exasperated, allowing him to secure a lead for himself and basically strong-head his way to his primary items. A late-game champ is not supposed to do that, and Yasuo and Vayne doing it are not any more okay than with Swain doing it.

But everyone's been so focused on Grievous Wounds being a counter to Swain that they forgot that it's on an item for ADC's that are susceptible to melting before Swain and that really cannot afford to build that as a first item - honestly, building Mortal Reminder as a first item against a Swain dooms you to doing almost no meaningful damage for the next 10-15 minutes as you repeatedly get punished for making that choice. Executioner's calling is hardly a good first-rush item either, and delays an ADC's damage by more than people would care to admit - building to counter Swain right now actually hurts you more than it helps you, and with this kind of early-game might that he's suddenly found himself endowed with, he's free to make sure you never find yourself in a good enough spot to do so without basically castrating yourself.

The honest reason Swain is getting hit harder than Brand is right now while Brand is winning much harder, though - and this is just a matter of veritable fact - is that Swain's incredibly reliable in getting his damage out. Two of his abilities are point-and-click, and his ult is basically an AoE aura. His W is the only skill-based ability, and it actually synergizes so well with his Q (his Q applying a very strong slow that makes it very easy to hit his W while it's in effect) that hitting it is actually pretty reliable as well.

The next nerfs you'll see on Brand will more than likely be to his E - that I can almost guarantee. Why? Because it's his most reliable damage.

swain range sucks, he is outranged by every mages there is a reason for him to be tanky, did you check orianna or ziggs range?

swain's ulti costs additional mana each seconds, each seconds you bait him makes him more useless, according to riot, at lvl 11 with 800 mana swain can only last 8 sec under ulti AND THAT'S if he doesn't cast other spells.

swain doesn't have waveclear which means he won't be able to have presence as hard as zed, ziggs, or orianna

swain's whole damage can be removed with qss

swain healing can be countered

swain heals less if you have mr

YEA BOYS

For Carthage2 votes

{quoted}

swain range sucks, he is outranged by every mages there is a reason for him to be tanky, did you check orianna or ziggs range?

... Swain's W has 900 range, which actually outranges the vast majority of mages. Orianna and Ziggs are both already notoriously known as the longest ranged mages in the game and are accepted as that just being their thing. Swain's Q tether also goes to 900 units of range before breaking, so when he is in range (and he usually is when his W's snare lasts 2 seconds and he basically has that free time to walk up to you), he is very hard to get away from.

swain's ulti costs additional mana each seconds, each seconds you bait him makes him more useless, according to riot, at lvl 11 with 800 mana swain can only last 8 sec under ulti AND THAT'S if he doesn't cast other spells.

So you're telling me there's a reason for him building Rod of Ages? And for that being literally his number one core item?

swain doesn't have waveclear which means he won't be able to have presence as hard as zed, ziggs, or orianna

His ult actually clears moderately well, and his W has very high bases and scaling. Both are good waveclear tools. However, this does beg the question: are you trying to imply that Swain is supposed to split-push when he's established as having his power budget in being a strong team-fighter and late-game champ?

swain's whole damage can be removed with qss

So you're going to suggest that everybody build a 1200 cost item that only builds into a single AD item in the entire game simply to mitigate one go of his combo (which this does not even mitigate the damage that's already done) every 90 seconds...? Even your AP champs? Even your tanks? I mean, that's fine by me, I won't complain - just means I've literally scared your entire team into allowing my ADC to do as much damage as possible early while you tremble in fear of the apparently almighty Swain.

swain healing can be countered

As I've said, through items - items that are not normally optimal to build first, or if we're talking about Morel, well, you do have to get Swain below 50% health first...

swain heals less if you have mr

And deals less damage... as with all mages... which is why you build either item 3135 or item 3151.

YEA BOYS

No... no... you're still incredibly and veritably wrong. To an unbelievable extent that you don't seem to want to accept.

I'm going to do you another favor, though, and point out precisely the worst parts of your argument:

  • You only name three champs to compare Swain to - out of over 100. Your argument is also atrociously weak when it boils down to it considering all three of those champs outrange Fizz - and you're free to guess how he fares in those match-ups. Those match-ups can actually very much be in Swain's favor as they're all immobile and extremely easy to land his W on to maximize his damage.

  • You bring up itemized counters, but you'll find that even when those are arguments - against Zed, for example, who you apparently believe is more deserving of a nerf than Swain - they are incredibly weak as itemized counters in this game can be far more forgiving than in DoTA2 because champs are built to be at least reasonably reliable in all situations - the game's been being altered to keep trying to work in the ability to go what you want when you want and make it work if you play the game right. DoTA2, on the other hand, has been solidifying its item-based balance - everything's balanced around the items, and items are what provides all the counterplay to heroes. That leads to an item making somebody basically irrelevant as soon as it's bought, and makes the balance allow for certain heroes to simply stomp up until that item is bought. It's not actually healthy gameplay, and it's something that has no place in League - you're not going to find yourself completely saved from Fizz blowing your ass up just because you Zhonya's'd. He's still entirely able to wait it out and get you on the comeback if you're a champ that he straight-up counters. This game is far more favored towards champion countering than item countering, which shows your ignorance of this game as you continue to try to apply DoTA2 logic to here.

  • Kennen Terrible wave-clear. Katarina Mediocre wave-clear at best without items. Kassadin Even worse wave-clear. Leblanc There's much better wave-clear. Fiddlesticks Garbage wave-clear (unless, you know, you wanna blow his ult). And yet none of them are considered to be trash just because of that - I can't for the life of me figure out why, though. Maybe there's more to a game than wave-clear? But that can't possibly be...

Look, I can already tell - you've already convinced yourself that you're right even when you're not. You're going to fight me on this until the end. Would you kindly just give up and we can agree to disagree on this? I'd rather not find myself having to explain the same concept multiple times.

KONO RUBICK DA3 votes

[{quoted}](name=For Carthage,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ljEyOvYW,comment-id=000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-11-24T15:43:28.799+0000)

... Swain's W has 900 range, which actually outranges the vast majority of mages. Orianna and Ziggs are both already notoriously known as the longest ranged mages in the game and are accepted as that just being their thing. Swain's Q tether also goes to 900 units of range before breaking, so when he is in range (and he usually is when his W's snare lasts 2 seconds and he basically has that free time to walk up to you), he is very hard to get away from.

So you're telling me there's a reason for him building Rod of Ages? And for that being literally his number one core item?

His ult actually clears moderately well, and his W has very high bases and scaling. Both are good waveclear tools. However, this does beg the question: are you trying to imply that Swain is supposed to split-push when he's established as having his power budget in being a strong team-fighter and late-game champ?

So you're going to suggest that everybody build a 1200 cost item that only builds into a single AD item in the entire game simply to mitigate one go of his combo (which this does not even mitigate the damage that's already done) every 90 seconds...? Even your AP champs? Even your tanks? I mean, that's fine by me, I won't complain - just means I've literally scared your entire team into allowing my ADC to do as much damage as possible early while you tremble in fear of the apparently almighty Swain.

As I've said, through items - items that are not normally optimal to build first, or if we're talking about Morel, well, you do have to get Swain below 50% health first...

And deals less damage... as with all mages... which is why you build either item 3135 or item 3151.

No... no... you're still incredibly and veritably wrong. To an unbelievable extent that you don't seem to want to accept.

I'm going to do you another favor, though, and point out precisely the worst parts of your argument:

  • You only name three champs to compare Swain to - out of over 100. Your argument is also atrociously weak when it boils down to it considering all three of those champs outrange Fizz - and you're free to guess how he fares in those match-ups. Those match-ups can actually very much be in Swain's favor as they're all immobile and extremely easy to land his W on to maximize his damage.

  • You bring up itemized counters, but you'll find that even when those are arguments - against Zed, for example, who you apparently believe is more deserving of a nerf than Swain - they are incredibly weak as itemized counters in this game can be far more forgiving than in DoTA2 because champs are built to be at least reasonably reliable in all situations - the game's been being altered to keep trying to work in the ability to go what you want when you want and make it work if you play the game right. DoTA2, on the other hand, has been solidifying its item-based balance - everything's balanced around the items, and items are what provides all the counterplay to heroes. That leads to an item making somebody basically irrelevant as soon as it's bought, and makes the balance allow for certain heroes to simply stomp up until that item is bought. It's not actually healthy gameplay, and it's something that has no place in League - you're not going to find yourself completely saved from Fizz blowing your ass up just because you Zhonya's'd. He's still entirely able to wait it out and get you on the comeback if you're a champ that he straight-up counters. This game is far more favored towards champion countering than item countering, which shows your ignorance of this game as you continue to try to apply DoTA2 logic to here.

  • Kennen Terrible wave-clear. Katarina Mediocre wave-clear at best without items. Kassadin Even worse wave-clear. Leblanc There's much better wave-clear. Fiddlesticks Garbage wave-clear (unless, you know, you wanna blow his ult). And yet none of them are considered to be trash just because of that - I can't for the life of me figure out why, though. Maybe there's more to a game than wave-clear? But that can't possibly be...

Look, I can already tell - you've already convinced yourself that you're right even when you're not. You're going to fight me on this until the end. Would you kindly just give up and we can agree to disagree on this? I'd rather not find myself having to explain the same concept multiple times.

stop fucking doing wall of texte for nothing

his W has 900 range because it's delayed, it has 0.7 sec delay, which means with 400 ms you will have the time to travel 280 ms , the radius is 150 unit

roa gives 600 mana, costs 3000 gold, will at best gives him enough mana to stay 5 sec longer under ulti if he doesn't cast other spells

his W doesn't give him waveclear, you have no idea about what you're talking about, his W IS NEVER MAXED, it's maxed at last,

QSS? i suggest you to buy it on every AD champs, no reason to not buy it against swain, and swain won't have mr pene, it also gives a chunk of AD, cost efficient, fucks warwick or skarner no reason to not buy it over IE, except if you are crit depend champion like draven, if you are lucian you can totally rush mercurial you won't lose damage, you can even buy item 3123 on everybody which reduces his HP by 40%

swain buying void staff? AHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA, swain at best will buy item 3151 which cost 3000 gold, he rushes roa and rylai because it's op, the moment he has void staff the game is already finished, LMFAO you can have +50 mr and finish the game before he had void staff

get rekt small kid

For Carthage2 votes

http://www.lolking.net/champions/swain#statistics

As I said. You've convinced yourself you're right even when you're so incredibly, stupidly wrong that only the most delusional - I.E., you - would continue to argue.

I really have absolutely nothing to prove to you at this point. I've given you the facts. Your choice to continue to be completely ignorant.

TheHypeGoku2 votes

People aren't going to listen to you. Swain was destroying in the upper echelons of ranked. Plain and simple. The complaints you see are from low elo players.

I'm confused why non-Swain players are complaining about a nerf to a champ they don't play. Why do non-mains of a champion always have to try to say something. Every time they do, Riot goes and does something that should have never been done despite actual mains that didn't see a problem.

For Carthage1 votes

Well, if ever there was evidence, they don't even realize that I've basically said I'm only giving context and am not taking a stance one way or another on the nerf because I wasn't that bothered by it.

And yet here comes the crucifixions of... apparently having shipped the nerf myself.

Whatever. I've been cried at for being right so many times on these boards now I basically just do this to build up a damn gallery in honor of these boards.

The circle jerk will never stop. And god bless their tenacity in the pursuit of dumbassery.

Crowe Stalker2 votes

If you know so much about Swain, why do you not have a single game on him in the last two months? These threads would be better to understand if you at least threw in a Pity Game to try to understand the Champion (though to be fair, I haven't played him in quite some time myself, or anyone in at least a few weeks)

If Riot wants to nerf Swain (instead of properly addressing Deathfire Touch like they should be) they need to look at his Torment, which is literally a built-in Deathfire Grasp. Damage Amplification is supposed to be bad for the game, that's why several mids were retuned (notably Ahri's Charm) but somehow Swain flew under the Radar and they never addressed it?

On Ultimates, Damage Amplification makes sense. Zed Fizz and Vladimir all have reasonably balanced ultimates, but Swain can effectively increase all damage he does save true damage by almost 20% at max rank of a basic ability for four seconds every 10 seconds assuming he gets absolutely no CDR. His Ultimate is also not an excuse to say 'Oh, he has waveclear!' and neither is his Nevermove. Viktor can call his Death Ray waveclear because it can one-shot the wave or, if behind, at least leave it within an auto attack. Nevermove is not capable of even leaving them in an auto unless you are A) ahead and bought a item 1026 instead of a item 3010 and B) leveling Nevermove first (which means you are forgoing all trading power in favor of waveclear, a terrible mistake considering Harass is all you have.) Let's not forget you actually need to train with Swain specifically to actually CS properly with him because his auto attacks have garbage damage with garbage animations on the level of Karthus and Vladimir but, unlike those two, he doesn't have an ability that really makes up for that.

Any intelligent Swain would be using Deathfire Touch to harass you by throwing Torment and an Auto, he'll likely deal several hundred damage just off of that. Instead, all I hear is people complaining about his Nevermove and Decrepify-which are some of the most counterplay heavy abilities in the game, have you even tried to just walk out of a Decrepify?

But no, instead of actually addressing what would realistically be the problems, Riot instead decides that his Immobilization (not Stun mind you, you can still use autos and spells against him if you are in range and you will be because of his short range) needs to be tuned down, and now the ability we max last because we need Torment to even trade in lane and Decrepify constitutes most of our magic damage, is now getting nerfed. Instead of a question of 'Okay, do I max Decrepify first to try to increase my trade potential or Nevermove to reduce the cooldown and possibly catch someone?' Nevermove now has a paultry one second snare. I don't know how long you think a second is, but to any decent player?

That's barely worth casting the spell.

For Carthage1 votes

I played him a fair amount last season.

This season it's really just a crystal clear strength - he's strong because of the keystone. Anybody who can put two and two together - a DoT reapplying a spell effect over and over again - could make the call from the sidelines without much effort. It's applying knowledge of the game to the champ. It's why when the AP itemization changes came out I had pointed out the incoming strength of mages and which ones they would be - not because I played them, but because I looked at the items and how they'd work and, applying them to each champ's playstyle and strengths, could pick and choose where the items would best work. It's very easy to eye things up at a glance, especially when they're practically shining spotlights in your eyes.

Now for the nerf to Nevermove... already explained it. It was a massive staple to his full combo as it allowed him to basically freely walk up and throw out his combo on you and maximize the damage - and again, I pointed out that his combo has one of the highest bases in the game due to it being a delayed-reward thing. If he only broke even, there would be absolutely no reason to play him in place of a different champ - why would you play a mage that took longer to do the same thing as another champ? No, instead he does more than another champ but takes longer to do it.

Now, Nevermove isn't as useless as people make it seem - 1 second snare, not great. But it still has great damage, great scaling, and just putting two points in it is enough to make it worthwhile enough to matter. It's some extra investment to make you decide whether you want your straight damage or some extra CC.

So again - it's to make it more difficult for him to put out that full combo. But it doesn't make it impossible for him in the slightest.

Also, his W has 900 range, and his Q and E both actually have about 625 range, which while only 25 range more, still puts him over the vast majority of champ's AA range and puts him above the other short range mages by far - he's not exactly defenseless, and I wouldn't really classify him as a solely short-range mage. A long-range catching mage with in-your-face follow up would really describe his full playstyle.

ProfDrDeath1 votes

Well said.

Now, add to that how Swain benefits from the buff to his core item item 3027 (+20 AP).

Also, Swain can make good use of both secondary mastery trees - Cunning has the mana sustain and last hit damage he likes, whereas Resolve has the shortened Summoner CD and improved sustain in Runic Armor.

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