I love that after 5 years of ranked in this game...

For Carthage·Oct 25, 2015·114 votes·18,908 views

You still have to wait 20 minutes to surrender a game where two people have AFK'd from the start.

There's still no relief for those people who have to wait through these games.

You still lose the same amount of LP for losing because of that.

And that the community is such jaded assholes that instead of thinking "We should end this game as quickly as we can so the enemy team doesn't have to deal with it forever" they think "This is a perfect way to pad my KDA like a massive fuckwad. Let me just draw out the game and keep trying to laser kill the enemies in their fountain while not pushing anymore."

How the absolute mother fuck have you not done a single goddamn thing about this, Riot? Even fucking DoTA2 has a system in place just to make this kind of shit as painless as possible. How are you so goddamn behind that DoTA2 is more progressive than you?

Edit: Reading this, yes I can see it's a very abrasive, tactless, and vulgar post.

In my defense, though, the remaining two players and I had to spend 10 goddamn minutes trying to convince the enemy team to push in mid and end the game as fast as possible while trying to dodge your stupid ass leaving penalty on top of them actively using our necessity to leave the spawn as a hunting game for themselves to try and dive us under turret every single time. So no I'm not sorry, and fuck you fix your damn problem.

87 Comments

RiotLyteOct 26, 201573 votes

We're working a feature that allows players to restart a game if a player fails to connect. No penalties for players except for the leaver/AFKer.

No ETA on when it's done, we're working on it along with the new Champ Select project.

For CarthageOct 26, 20159 votes

That's something at least. While I'm harsh with my words, it's just very aggravating when there's absolutely nothing to be done but sit and quite literally be hunted in game by the enemy team.

As much as I enjoy Five Nights at Freddies, I'd prefer not to live it out in League in a ranked game. So this is welcome news at the very least.

CasterGilgameshOct 26, 20153 votes

Hunting? That sounds like a job for Rengar and Nidalee !

ModDaenrysTargaryenOct 26, 20153 votes

Or you know Kindred :)

LegacyofTableOct 26, 20153 votes

What about when people troll from champ select? I know with the new champ select it should reduce it, but not 100%. The ones who stay in game on purpose and just afk as disco nunu and such.

is that foxOct 26, 20151 votes

{quoted}

No penalties for players except for the leaver/AFKer.

Does this include LP gains/losses?

Shroom JunkieOct 26, 20151 votes

Probably. Why else would he say "No penalties except for leaver/AFKer"? Not like you get penalized for being put in a 4v5/3v5[/less], so I assume that's what he means, yes.

CarrierKestralOct 26, 20154 votes

{quoted}

We're working a feature that allows players to restart a game if a player fails to connect. No penalties for players except for the leaver/AFKer.

No ETA on when it's done, we're working on it along with the new Champ Select project.

Then how about instead of producing CG's and skins for worlds you actually unfuck game balance, client stability, and THIS PROBLEM so for once you are the community centered company you claim to be.

SilverclawOct 26, 201512 votes

... You do realize Lyte doesn't go anywhere near creating effects or skins? Right? He's been pummelling away on things to make the experience better for us. New champ select is out soon and this is on the works, along with the Tribunal (soon tm? hopefully?)

WullfOct 26, 201515 votes

The lord Lyte of We-are-on-it had his hand pretty sweaty fingers on keybord hit by hit valiantly fought the code of spagetti

The demand for fix was heard far and wide And morale of fans was dropping low So "we're working on it" was again cried even though it was said half a year ago.

No one doubts the vigor of lord Lyte And no one doubts the truth of his words but the end of the labor is not yet in sight and fans are forming in angry herds

Oh, give, dear Lord a strenght to needful or give a sword to the leader

SteelflameOct 26, 20153 votes

Hey Lyte, just an idea, could we get a 5 minute surrender time reduction for every ally who isn't in the game? Effectively, if one person leaves, you can FF at 15, if 2, at 10, if 3, at 5, and if 4 and you were left solo, you could almost instantly (with a small wait time to let them connect if it was a group playing from one location perhaps).

EvilMerodachOct 26, 20152 votes

{quoted}

We're working a feature that allows players to restart a game if a player fails to connect. No penalties for players except for the leaver/AFKer.

No ETA on when it's done, we're working on it along with the new Champ Select project.

Wait, wat? You get automatic penalty for bug splat? At least give a time frame to attempt to reconnect. Or detection for someone trying to reconnect to a game. Doesn't seem fair that you can just have your computer wig out for a minute and automatically get a penalty even if you're in the middle of reconnecting.

Lord BoltrixOct 26, 20154 votes

How about that anyone that AFK's in Ranked can't play ranked that day? Short and sweet.

"My net dc'ed me."

That is fine, if it was a once in a blue moon thing, then it should only happen once in a blue moon. No Double LP loss, no massive queue time, no losing your firstborn. If it happens all the time, then it's not league being 'assholes,' its your net or your computer being a bitch, so you can blame them instead and try to fix that.

As for those guys who think it's cute to do this consistently?

(chuckles darkly)

Duke AnaxOct 26, 20152 votes

The thing is it's not only the net or the PC, the Lol Client itself is rather unstable during the load screen.

About every second game I see it that someone get's stuck during load (and you get no indication whether it is you that got stuck or whether you are just waiting on someone else)

And while everyone else spawns that guy is still waiting in load screen being none the wiser, eventually it crashes and reloads. If you are lucky you are only 30 seconds late but it can be several minutes.

Lord BoltrixOct 26, 20152 votes

Well again, my system simply says "you can't play ranked for that day' if worst comes to worst and the system decides this.

Would you rather the system other people propose where you lose the other teammate's LP to compensate, or where your queue times increase exponentially.

This system is meant to discourage AFK'ers who do so regularly without seriously hurting people who have an accident once.

In an ideal world, the game could distinguish between malicious intent and unintentional happenstance when someone AFK's, but we can't, so we have to make do with a fair and balanced system that isn't too excessive.

EvilMerodachOct 26, 20154 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lord Boltrix,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=BNyn3GxJ,comment-id=000a000a000000000000,timestamp=2015-10-26T11:49:11.998+0000)

Well again, my system simply says "you can't play ranked for that day' if worst comes to worst and the system decides this.

Would you rather the system other people propose where you lose the other teammate's LP to compensate, or where your queue times increase exponentially.

This system is meant to discourage AFK'ers who do so regularly without seriously hurting people who have an accident once.

In an ideal world, the game could distinguish between malicious intent and unintentional happenstance when someone AFK's, but we can't, so we have to make do with a fair and balanced system that isn't too excessive.

Define 'that day' ? Are we talking like reverse 1st win timer? Where you have 22 hours before you can play ranked again. That would have the problem of someone bug splatting on a Friday evening right after they got off work/Saturday morning, and end up blowing half their weekend not being able to play ranked. Or like resets at midnight? That would have the problem of trolls being able to time it and do it twice just for the lol's. Kinda shitty for people who have lives but still want to get their ranks in either way.

I just feel there should be better 'How did you disconnect?' detectors before we add in a system that's going to punish people for 'leaving' as soon as everyone says 'fk it, reset' and doesn't give the innocent guy a chance to reconnect.

-note on this, I haven't had a leave in a long time, and rarely even a dc/reconnect. And will always keep trying to reconnect till the game is over. (Unless the power goes out..and even then I'll just sit there freaking out about it till it comes back on or 20-30 minutes goes past and it's still not back on.) And probably less than 20 leaves in my entire LoL history of over 4500 games played. And ALL of those were either net dropping, power going out, router freaking out, or something on LoL's end (bugs that force you to disconnect yourself, and reconnect, then something else bugs out and you have to end up reloading again. Remember 'ghost minions' from a couple seasons back? Those might have been responsible for like half my leaves..-.-) I've never left a game for personal reasons. Grandma dying? fk it, she can wait till the nexus is dead 1st. I just don't leave games, EVER.

So, mostly, this doesn't have much to do with me.

But I still think it's very unfair to have an instant reset and punish a guy for a random bug splat.

Lord BoltrixOct 26, 20152 votes

I agree with you there, and if there was a a system that more properly punished the sort of negative behavior that plagues the game, I would toss my idea happily out the window. Again, my idea was just a suggestion, one AFK would be bad form, I have to agree. Three might be enough as a sort of three-strikes thing, but then again it might be too much or not enough.

The problem, ultimately, is that players don't feel that negative behavior sans toxic communication gets punished readily enough to make a difference to improving the community. There are many rioters who have promised systems that will try to combat these issues, but without a good ETA people simply become frustrated.

You can't readily determine if someone dc'ed from selfish actions or by actions outside of their control, and there isn't really much you can do about that to try to punish malicious dc without potentially hurting the average joe who had a bit of bad luck with his net connection.

Same thing with trolls, some people have bad days and make mistakes, some people are moronic but aren't intentionally trying to give the enemy kills, and some people just enjoy dashing the hopes of 4 other people and skewing the system, because the only way they are able to have fun is at the expense of others.

AMYS GRAVEOct 26, 20153 votes

How about that anyone that AFK's in Ranked can't play ranked that day? Short and sweet.

This is actually brilliant. The punishment is only as persistent as the cause. No permanent losses for a temporary problem.

Duke AnaxOct 26, 20154 votes

Hi Lyte, do you guys keep in mind that the LoL Client loader itself is somewhat unstable?

It's not a leaver/AFK if the game itself fails to connect.

I hope with "restart" you mean a simple restart of the exact same match, where the missing player get's a chance to show that they are stil there and to start properly.

Also add something to the Loader that detects a crash faster and automatically reloads.

Reynard the ƒoxOct 26, 20155 votes

{quoted}

No ETA on when it's done, we're working on it along with the new Champ Select project.

Oh, so never.

Photos of GhostsOct 26, 20153 votes

Damn. This means less time for me to connect if your client crashes on me.

Synx7Oct 26, 20155 votes

{quoted}

We're working a feature that allows players to restart a game if a player fails to connect. No penalties for players except for the leaver/AFKer.

No ETA on when it's done, we're working on it along with the new Champ Select project.

We've heard that at the beginning of April if memory serves me right. We're in the end of October. No ETA, just like Tribunal or ranked team builder. Broken promises Maybe if this game required a subscription in order to play the game, we would get things faster without years of delay

RiotLyteOct 27, 201521 votes

{quoted}

We've heard that at the beginning of April if memory serves me right. We're in the end of October. No ETA, just like Tribunal or ranked team builder. Broken promises Maybe if this game required a subscription in order to play the game, we would get things faster without years of delay

This feature had a more chaotic timeline than most. We started working on Early Surrender, then actually pivoted to launch the LeaverBuster 2.0 system (due to new data we were seeing with leavers/AFKs in general). The system dramatically reduced leavers/AFKs, so we took a break from this problem space and began working on the new Champ Select (because of data suggesting a lot of problems were with position conflicts starting in champion select, and champ select trolls holding the lobby hostage).

Now that we're at the end of the new Champ Select cycle, we have some spare time so we decided to take on a smaller project and finish Early Surrender before we go full steam into the new Tribunal voting system again.

This is how development works. Every month, you have to be flexible. You might get new data about the problem that shows you that you should be working on something else, your team might have emergent issues (i.e = 2 members suddenly had personal emergencies and had to leave the company), or onboarding issues (i.e = we're now training 2 new team members to catch up and start work on the project). Issues like these are why Rioters are generally afraid of talking. Think of the possible outcomes:

You talk about the features too early, and the project ends up being cancelled -- players yell at you.
You talk about the features too early, and the project is delayed -- players yell at you.
You talk about the features too early, and ship the project on time -- players are happy.
You talk about the features too late, and ship the project on time -- players yell at you because they don't know what's coming.
You talk about the features too late, and ship the project late -- players yell at you because they think development is slow.

If you think about it, being vocal on any social media as a developer is really scary. Players don't care about the reasons, they just want cool content and they always want it faster.

KappisteOct 27, 20156 votes

{quoted}

This feature had a more chaotic timeline than most. We started working on Early Surrender, then actually pivoted to launch the LeaverBuster 2.0 system (due to new data we were seeing with leavers/AFKs in general). The system dramatically reduced leavers/AFKs, so we took a break from this problem space and began working on the new Champ Select (because of data suggesting a lot of problems were with position conflicts starting in champion select, and champ select trolls holding the lobby hostage).

Now that we're at the end of the new Champ Select cycle, we have some spare time so we decided to take on a smaller project and finish Early Surrender before we go full steam into the new Tribunal voting system again.

This is how development works. Every month, you have to be flexible. You might get new data about the problem that shows you that you should be working on something else, your team might have emergent issues (i.e = 2 members suddenly had personal emergencies and had to leave the company), or onboarding issues (i.e = we're now training 2 new team members to catch up and start work on the project). Issues like these are why Rioters are generally afraid of talking. Think of the possible outcomes:

You talk about the features too early, and the project ends up being cancelled -- players yell at you.

You talk about the features too early, and the project is delayed -- players yell at you.

You talk about the features too early, and ship the project on time -- players are happy.

You talk about the features too late, and ship the project on time -- players yell at you because they don't know what's coming.

You talk about the features too late, and ship the project late -- players yell at you because they think development is slow.

If you think about it, being vocal on any social media as a developer is really scary. Players don't care about the reasons, they just want cool content and they always want it faster.

Excuses for failure. Millions of dollars and Rito can't do what other devs do because? There is no damn excuse for this shit.

SmokedAlmondsOct 27, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Excuses for failure. Millions of dollars and Rito can't do what other devs do because? There is no damn excuse for this shit.

Its not a matter of can't, its a matter of prioritizing other things.

It is a great feature. I don't think you will find many that will argue against that. But just because you think it should be a priority doesn't mean that everyone does.

Arcane AzmadiOct 27, 20154 votes

{quoted}

Its not a matter of can't, its a matter of prioritizing other things.

It is a great feature. I don't think you will find many that will argue against that. But just because you think it should be a priority doesn't mean that everyone does.

A game-ruining issue that other games have been able to deal with for years IS a priority! Like I pointed out elsewhere in this thread, Dota 2 LAUNCHED with systems in place to prevent afks or DC's from completely fucking people over unfairly and turning entire games into giant fucking wastes of their time, ability and rank score! The fact that LoL has managed to go for six years without addressing such a critical issue is embarrassing and a major blight on Riot's record as a competent game developer.

ArchenerOct 27, 201512 votes

If were talking about a semi popular game that came out a year ago then everything you said is correct.

But this is League of Legends. The number one online game in the world. A company that almost made 1 billion in transactions in a YEAR. Thats been out for 6 years

People aren't mad you are being to slow with releasing the LP loss prevention with afk's or the early surrender. Their mad because this SHOULD have been added YEARS AGO

And no lyte, its not scary for any developer, you dont see any memes coming from Zenonthestoics ask.fm or Ghostcrawlers ask.fm.

DecritOct 27, 20156 votes

{quoted}

And no lyte, its not scary for any developer, you dont see any memes coming from Zenonthestoics ask.fm or Ghostcrawlers ask.fm.

Actually you just demonstrated it is: really few devs dare to speak. Ghostcrawler is the most thick-skinned ( or shell-skinned? he' s a crab!) of them all since he was not the first, but one of those who trailblazed this developer-user communication thing. Zenon is rather nonchalant on what he says but also really low level - he also speak the minimum!

AMYS GRAVEOct 31, 20153 votes

But when Riot made 1 BILLION dollars last year, there is no excuse. If your team has to shift focus off of one thing to work on another, maybe you need another team to work on the second problem. With that kind of income there is no reason why more devs can't be hired to provide the necessary manpower to do both. You're stuck in an either or mindset which does not have to be the case.

KappisteOct 26, 20153 votes

{quoted}

We're working a feature that allows players to restart a game if a player fails to connect. No penalties for players except for the leaver/AFKer.

No ETA on when it's done, we're working on it along with the new Champ Select project.

Why wasn't this part of the game since day 1? Doto 2 has had it for years. Why is Riot so slow and bad at making anything but cashgrabbing garbage like skins?

Death by KaynOct 26, 20152 votes

Hey there Lyte. Quick question concerning this new system, albeit being a work in progress. So I almost exclusively duo with my brother, and every once in a while (about 1 in 25 games) he is unable to enter the loading screen until everyone has already summoned. If this happens with the new system, whenever it comes out, will he be punished for this, or will it give him time to open his load screen following everybody else being summoned? As a side note, he normally is back in the game at about 1:20. Thanks!

AMYS GRAVEOct 26, 20152 votes

If it came out yesterday it would be 5 years too late.

That said Leaverbuster sucks. Get dc twice by something that is out of your control and your games are ruined for you, AND you get punished. Really a kick to the nuts when you're down.

BlainezyOct 26, 20151 votes

{quoted}

We're working a feature that allows players to restart a game if a player fails to connect. No penalties for players except for the leaver/AFKer.

No ETA on when it's done, we're working on it along with the new Champ Select project.

Thank goodness.. Hopefully this is out ASAP because this problem happens way too often, and it's very often while I'm in promos. Haha.

HellmetOct 27, 20153 votes

{quoted}

We're working a feature that allows players to restart a game if a player fails to connect. No penalties for players except for the leaver/AFKer.

No ETA on when it's done, we're working on it along with the new Champ Select project.

What about when a player rages at the 3 minute mark and quits? I shouldn't have to wait 20 minutes at a first chance of surrendering. When that happens it's Riot trolling me, not the player that quit. The Data tells me that your biggest problem is that you force your gamers to go through 20 minutes of boring hell because you don't have any way for them to get out of the game. I'll take the LP loss, who really cares about LP at that point anyway.. I just don't want to be banned for not wanting to go through 20 minutes of hell. And if you are lucky, your team will actually surrender at the 20 mark and not be trolling assholes who force you to keep playing because they are dicking around.

General Esdeath Oct 25, 201520 votes

"Players would abuse it!"

Oh no, someone can risk their account getting banned to prevent a friend from losing LP. I can see that being abused. Yep, I'm gonna grind 100 accounts to 30 or spends thousands of dollars buying accounts just for that. You got me, Riot.

ChaoticPineconeOct 26, 20151 votes

You and your friend only need 2 accounts. Use your smurf to duo with your friend. Oh, you got a 2 week ban on your smurf? Guess your friend cant rank for 2 weeks then, while you hop on your main and your friend plays his smurf.

Unless you think Riot should be permabanning people for DCing.

EDIT - and if you think this community really wouldnt sink to that level, you obviously forgot about the DDOS/Drophacking that went on a year ago.

General Esdeath Oct 26, 20152 votes

{quoted}

You and your friend only need 2 accounts. Use your smurf to duo with your friend. Oh, you got a 2 week ban on your smurf? Guess your friend cant rank for 2 weeks then, while you hop on your main and your friend plays his smurf.

Unless you think Riot should be permabanning people for DCing.

EDIT - and if you think this community really wouldnt sink to that level, you obviously forgot about the DDOS/Drophacking that went on a year ago.

You don't have to ban right away. You give a 2 week rank ban it it happens twice in a week, happens again you give them a 4 week ban, after that it's perm. You're only getting one free loss prevention a week if that's the case. And if you really need that much help, you're not going to stay in whatever rank you boost to for very long. It doesn't help you, you don't climb it just nullifies the record.

NiamhNyxOct 25, 201519 votes

Because its Riot. They seem to be slow when it comes to fixing big problems, but extremely fast when its a tiny problem like a word being misspelled.

Heckin SupportOct 25, 20157 votes

Soon™ - Riot

KatCraftOct 25, 201510 votes

Even in Riot believe their own delusions that softening LP losses for AFKers is some how abusable, there is no excuse for at least lifting the 20 minute surrender barrier when this happens.

Lift your game Riot this isn't good enough.

YambrinZOct 25, 20158 votes

I agree with the vulgar post. Riot has taken way too long to deal with some of these issues of ranked. As far as surrender goes, I dont think it needs changed. But for afk's, I would suggest this.

1- If they are afk from start, game ends at 10 minutes. Team with afk gets out of loss, team that "won" gets ip for their time. 2- If the dc'ed person is gone for 10 minutes, same thing. Now i would suggest a TOTAL of 10 minutes, but i can see the case for a consectutive 10 minutes as well. So for ranked, if game is under 20 minutes for the the afk, "losing" team shouldnt be given ip, because they are getting out of lost lp. And the "winning" team shouldnt really gain lp, but its not their fault for afk so they should get ip as normal for their time. And any game OVER the 20 minutes, the "losing" team shouldnt have their time worth nothing, so they should be given ip, because the afk isnt their fault.

Actually xPekeOct 25, 20156 votes

For each AFK the surrender vote should be reduced to 5 minutes. Up to a max of 10 min reduction

Synx7Oct 26, 20155 votes

That's why I stopped playing ranked. They still can't do shit and all their focus are on skins/worlds/LC$ and destroying existent champions. And all they can say is : "It can be abused" So instead of finding a solution , its just : " it can be abused , we're too lazy to find a solution so go fuck yourselves and buy our skins".
I play a ranked game per month just to avoid ranked decay and HEAR ME on this one : 2 months so only 2 games. In both of them I had a rager in champ select , both disconnected during the game for a few minutes. No, i dont want to cope up with that shit and you shouldn't either. Its just not worth the stress and effort. for what? For a shitty reworked badge with anal beads on it and a crappy Skin? PS. I expect another RP price increase for the rest of the world coming up with 2016

MalaborathOct 25, 20154 votes

Upvote, UPvote, UPVOTE!!!!

Horse GrenadesOct 25, 20154 votes

BUMP address this plz

Biff ManlyOct 25, 20153 votes

I like the DotA system, and I feel like the problems it brings are smoothed over by Riot's leaver-buster (read: poor connection SWAT team).

ShakySurgeonOct 26, 20153 votes

I completely agree. Just because people consider the post:"Abrasive and Vulgar" doesn't diminish the points made here in the slightest. People get WAY too hung up on things like instead of the actual issue at hand. I REALLY hope this gets dealt with soon, too many series lost because of this.

MorganKainesOct 26, 20152 votes

But, only yesterday the client crashed during loading screen TWICE. Had to quit and restart to get into the game again. It's bad enough I get warnings for leaving the game, when I am not actually leaving, but trying to get in, if we're going to get even more punished. Last time I got pissed, because I was stuck in "attempting to reconnect" for more than five minutes, so had to try and turn the whole thing off. Got back in the game, but then afterwards popped up the leaverbuster warning! It pissed me off, because it was going fine the first 5 min, my internet connection is perfect (I checked it, was working fine, it was the damn client) and there the whole thing crashes and I get a warning for it, like I messed up on purpose :(

PIMPSMOOTHOct 26, 20152 votes

Appreciate Lyte's input and the fact that Riot is apparently doing something, but imo a restart of the game for a Dc/Afk isn't the answer.

The last thing I'd want to do is wait for 15-30 minutes for this new implemented tool to kick in, then have to restart with this same player on my team only to have to go through it again. If a teammate has an unstable internet to the tune that they keep dc'ing and reconnecting repeatedly, then just let us out of the match with no LP loss so we can move on with our lives and find 4 others who can actually connect to a match.

g07h4xf00Oct 26, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=For Carthage,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=BNyn3GxJ,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-10-25T04:00:56.236+0000)

Edit: Reading this, yes I can see it's a very abrasive, tactless, and vulgar post.

In my defense, though, the remaining two players and I had to spend 10 goddamn minutes trying to convince the enemy team to push in mid and end the game as fast as possible while trying to dodge your stupid ass leaving penalty on top of them actively using our necessity to leave the spawn as a hunting game for themselves to try and dive us under turret every single time. So no I'm not sorry, and fuck you fix your damn problem.

Never apologize for calling out Rito's bullshit. Stick to your guns.