I cannot get over the fact that Zac got reverted before Skarner

Predatorator·May 16, 2019·21 votes·11,325 views

Sorry to sound like "that guy", i'm actually ok with Zac getting a revert if the rework didn't hit the Mark, but for now much o thought of It, It seems almost unfair that he got reverted before skarner:

Let's start from the fact that both reworks were really not needed. Skarner got messed up way before Zac (and in a worse way), and ever since then, the most popular request from skarner mains Is a revert to Crystal Venom skarner. Instead skarner got neglected, while Zac got endless balance changes since then.

So i'm not saying that Zac should not be reverted, but at this point, why not revert skarner also? What's preventing that?

92 Comments

Tahminatrix May 16, 201914 votes

Did anyone ask for a skarner rework in the firstplace anyway? Ive seen a lot of people claiming it was out of the blue.

PredatoratorMay 17, 20195 votes

[{quoted}](name=Super Cow Swag,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=li9itrap,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-05-16T23:55:45.801+0000)

Did anyone ask for a skarner rework in the firstplace anyway? Ive seen a lot of people claiming it was out of the blue.

Almost everyone since the jugg update. However the playerbase Is really small, and it's hard to be listened

Edit: i Just realize you were actually talking about after crystal venom skarner, my bad. No, nobody asked for any major work after crystal venom. Maybe something visual, but that's it

RagnaveilMay 17, 20191 votes

If I had to take a guess, he might get looked at some point soon. They did mention they'll take a shot at him somepoint soon down the line.

PredatoratorMay 17, 20191 votes

{quoted}

If I had to take a guess, he might get looked at some point soon. They did mention they'll take a shot at him somepoint soon down the line.

When did they mention that? As far as skarner Is concerned, the spire buff might be the "the shot they took at him"

General MattyMay 17, 20192 votes

I remember they did say they are looking at Skarner, but i'm not exactly sure where or when, i just know that it was pretty recent.

SpecterVonBarenMay 17, 20193 votes

It was a while ago and we've had radio silence on it since.

General Esdeath May 17, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Super Cow Swag,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=li9itrap,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-05-16T23:55:45.801+0000)

Did anyone ask for a skarner rework in the firstplace anyway? Ive seen a lot of people claiming it was out of the blue.

I've seen some people ask for him to be improved, but that rework was way off the mark for what Skarner should be.

SpecterVonBarenMay 17, 20194 votes

The Juggernaut rework was indeed out of the blue. Partly because he had already received a recent rework and partly because he was not a Juggernaut but a high CC fighter or Catcher.

PredatoratorMay 17, 20191 votes

{quoted}

The Juggernaut rework was indeed out of the blue. Partly because he had already received a recent rework and partly because he was not a Juggernaut but a high CC fighter or Catcher.

i don't know what "out the blue" means =p. however i agree iwth this, even tho riot has a hard time deciding what skarner actually is. but his kit allows him to be more things, without excelling at once.

SpecterVonBarenMay 17, 20191 votes

"Out of the blue" means that something happened suddenly and without warning or signs that it would happen. It's in reference to either how a storm can suddenly hit fast or how an airplane fighter pilot could get blindsided by an enemy plane despite there not technically being anything they were hiding behind.

PredatoratorMay 18, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Out "of the blue" means that something happened suddenly and without warning or signs that it would happen. It's in reference to either how a storm can suddenly hit fast or how an airplane fighter pilot could get blindsided by an enemy plane despite there not technically being anything they were hiding behind.

Curious, but thank you! Happy i learned this =)

Yeah you could say both skarner's and zac's reworks were out of the blue indeed =)

SpecterVonBarenMay 18, 20192 votes

Any other sayings you need help with? I assume English is not your first language or is it just our "Yankee" talk that's unusual?

PredatoratorMay 18, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Any other sayings you need help with? I assume English is not your first language or is it just our "Yankee" talk that's unusual?

I'm good man, thank you for your kindness You're right, i'm italian =p Unusual is interesting. But it's me that just started scratching the surface of "yankee sayings" :p Feel free to text some more, i'd love to know more of these =)

SpecterVonBarenMay 18, 20191 votes

Hhm, how about one about my home state then? "I'm from Missouri so show me." We're called the Show Me state because of the general disposition of the people from here, we're unassuming and not quick to just go along with what someone says without them backing it up.

Any Italian sayings you have you can share?

PredatoratorMay 19, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Hhm, how about one about my home state then? "I'm from Missouri so show me." We're called the Show Me state because of the general disposition of the people from here, we're unassuming and not quick to just go along with what someone says without them backing it up.

Any Italian sayings you have you can share?

Lol, that's really widespread as and habit, sadly, especially with how information is available right now. But i find cute that you made It into a "state thing" =p

Italian language Is full of sayings, most are in dialect. I don't remember much right now, it's 3am, but something that could be said about this thread Is "la speranza è l'ultima a morire" wich means roughly "Hope Is the last to die". Off topic there's "chi dorme non piglia pesci" which translates into "who sleeps won't get any fish" and it means that if you keep buying time, you'll lose opportunities

SpecterVonBarenMay 20, 20191 votes

Ok, how bout this one? Whenever saying something like, "Are you really putting ALL of that into your backpack?" a person can reply, "The whole kit and kaboodle." which means "everything" as in you are using everything, taking everything or giving everything.

PredatoratorMay 21, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Ok, how bout this one? Whenever saying something like, "Are you really putting ALL of that into your backpack?" a person can reply, "The whole kit and kaboodle." which means "everything" as in you are using everything, taking everything or giving everything.

Never heard of It. We use "ambaradan" to name a mix of everything. I think there are some other terms, but i can't remember right now x)

michaelo0May 17, 201912 votes

I just want a Skarner that doesn't feel useless if every fight happens outside the JG.

PredatoratorMay 17, 20193 votes

{quoted}

I just want a Skarner that doesn't feel useless if every fight happens outside the JG.

I know right

Pandemic PunchMay 17, 20196 votes

I have been asking for an ult revert on zac constantly on the forums since it got reworked. I have seen a lot of other people asking for the same thing and no one ever asking for a skarner revert lol

PredatoratorMay 17, 20193 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pandemic Punch,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=li9itrap,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-05-17T06:21:10.020+0000)

I have been asking for an ult revert on zac constantly on the forums since it got reworked. I have seen a lot of other people asking for the same thing and no one ever asking for a skarner revert lol

Thing Is skarner playerbase Is one of the smallest, if not the smallest. If you take a search, you'll find out that most post about skarner are asking for a revert, if not a vgu. But these post are so few, and the attention they get Is not much. Take a look at reddit too.

ShahamutMay 17, 20193 votes

Dont forget my gameplay+ mega post 9 months ago where a rioter mentioned him being on a "short list " of candidates for a "xin zhao" level update, and the leading ideas involved removing his spires...

I post time and again asking for updates on that reply, but have heard nothing for 9 months...

PredatoratorMay 17, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Dont forget my gameplay+ mega post 9 months ago where a rioter mentioned him being on a "short list " of candidates for a "xin zhao" level update, and the leading ideas involved removing his spires...

I post time and again asking for updates on that reply, but have heard nothing for 9 months...

i remember that, and more than a year later, we only get the spires enlarged.

i remember even a dev post months after the jugg update, stating they'll be doing major gameplay updates on skarner, but years later nothing happened...

i remember everything, and i always had my hopes up whenever riot said they'll soon be doing major work on skarner, but everytime nothing happens, and we get none from riot to give us context. it's pretty unfair, and shows a dark side of riot towards small playerbases

ShahamutMay 17, 20193 votes

Agreed. It really sucks being ignored...

My biggest heart leap was when they announced a goal for champions being "role diversity"... That SCREAMED revert or update for Skarner, since his passive is the very antithesis of that idea... Still nothing...

PredatoratorMay 17, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Agreed. It really sucks being ignored...

My biggest heart leap was when they announced a goal for champions being "role diversity"... That SCREAMED revert or update for Skarner, since his passive is the very antithesis of that idea... Still nothing...

i don't really know what to say, there's not much we know about future plans for skarner, if there are any

Edit: they're doing small reworks to wukong (high tier candidate for vgu), malph (high tier candidate for vgu), hopefully skarner is close

ShahamutMay 17, 20191 votes

Hoping against hope...

PredatoratorMay 17, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Hoping against hope...

I did not get the meaning of that

ShahamutMay 18, 20192 votes

Basically a way of saying " I REALLY hope you are right..."

PredatoratorMay 18, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Basically a way of saying " I REALLY hope you are right..."

Thank you, we can only hope i guess

revliledpembrokeMay 17, 20192 votes

Of course not. Zac's change was a lot more recent than Skarner's, wasn't it?

Pandemic PunchMay 17, 20192 votes

{quoted}

Of course not. Zac's change was a lot more recent than Skarner's, wasn't it?

Yes, but it did not need the change >(

PredatoratorMay 17, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pandemic Punch,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=li9itrap,comment-id=000400010000,timestamp=2019-05-17T09:44:36.601+0000)

Yes, but it did not need the change >(

Yeah, general consensus was that too, could've don work on much urgent champions

nGioMay 17, 20193 votes

Is Zac getting a full revert or is it just his ult? A revert of just his ult does absolutely nothing, because he lost too much damage and sustain for the Q and R. If the ult gets reverted, but his damage remains in the gutter then he'll be in the same spot that he is now. Zac's highest win rate pre rework was top lane, that's a large reason why Zac mains want the full revert. He went from being an AP sustain bruiser to a support jungle who can't sustain and can't bruise.

boricCentaur1May 17, 20192 votes

No skarner should be left alone until a full rework. Also Skarner rework was like 4 years ago like THIS IS SKARNER NOW DEAL WITH IT there is no point in wanting a revert to something that was worst like that would not make any sense to do.

PredatoratorMay 17, 20197 votes

{quoted}

No skarner should be left alone until a full rework. Also Skarner rework was like 4 years ago like THIS IS SKARNER NOW DEAL WITH IT there is no point in wanting a revert to something that was worst like that would not make any sense to do.

Worst? Crystal Venom skarner was the closest we ever got to a healthy and fun skarner, and It was the best iteration of skarner:

no gimmicky passive;
you could lane just fine;
better build diversity;
Q was an actual skill;
closest thing to the "predator that sticks to you and never lets go" without the so toxic permaslow.

SaezioMay 17, 20191 votes

He didn't have a stun then though did he? His old E was way less of an actual skill than current Q

PredatoratorMay 17, 20194 votes

{quoted}

He didn't have a stun then though did he? His old E was way less of an actual skill than current Q

He did have a stun pre-jugg. in his last iteration before jugg, he could proc his stun on whover he hit with 3 abilities. enemies hit could not be stunned again for x seconds.

His E was fine: it did not slow itself down the more units it crossed, slow was ok, and procced one stack of crystal venom (3 needed to stun) now it's an overloaded skill, at the cost of emptying his Q

current Q is actually just dps, again it was far better pre-jugg: it gave bonus ms and as, increasing up to 3 times for hitting 3 consecutive Qs. it also procced 1 stack of crystal venom. It had base values, so building tank granted still some damage. attacking nonchampions reduced its cd by 1 sec, instead of 0.25 sec

SaezioMay 17, 20191 votes

Wait, you are not talking about the first iteration of skarner? I didn't remember there was another change to him before juggernaut. I remember his first E was just a heal if you autoed the person hit and that was it.

PredatoratorMay 17, 20194 votes

{quoted}

Wait, you are not talking about the first iteration of skarner? I didn't remember there was another change to him before juggernaut. I remember his first E was just a heal if you autoed the person hit and that was it.

so to make it clear, skarner went through 3 reworks, excluding his original kit.

the first one completely ruined him, taking away his permaslow, and giving the slow to E. He got ratios, but he couldn't do anything because it was simply impossible for him to stick to anyone and deal damage.

so he got reworked again. Into his best version, to me and most skarner players (5 or so (jk)) passive got changed into a 3 hit stun; W ms buff got changed from instant to ramping up Q did all the stuff i wrote earlier. E procced one stack of passive R did bonus damage for consumed stack of crystal venom.

then out of nowhere he got reworked with the jugg update, into the messed up thing we all know.

You were talking about his original kit. His Q did permalsow, E marked targets. autoing marked enemies healed skarner W got an instant speed buff, and granted AS

SaezioMay 17, 20192 votes

Oh you are right I remember the R doing damage with stacks thingy and he became popular for a couple months too.

My bad sorry, I was thinking of permaslow skarner. Did the iteration you are talking about have the passive with the -spell CD that could reduce R CD too? That was higher when battling champs?

LovelleMay 17, 20192 votes

The squeaky wheel gets the oil when it comes to Rito balancing, and Skarner is almost as underplayed as Trundle.

PredatoratorMay 17, 20191 votes

{quoted}

The squeaky wheel gets the oil when it comes to Rito balancing, and Skarner is almost as underplayed as Trundle.

What does that mean?

SpecterVonBarenMay 17, 20193 votes

The people that are loudest or more numerous get the attention.

LovelleMay 18, 20192 votes

It means the less played a champion and/or map is, the higher chances they have of being straight up ignored/neglected. Zac has also seen a lot of pro play in the past, which further increase the chances of Riot paying more attention to him. In their eyes, he's more profitable.

It sucks, but that's just the way it is. It's just something I've learned to accept over the years playing this game, and one of the primary reasons I don't play as often as I used to.

SyrileMay 21, 20191 votes

Can we just not revert or rework champions all the time? some people actually like the champions and do not want to constantly have to relearn everything about every champion because the "balance" team is bored and too incompetent to actually do anything right.

PredatoratorMay 21, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Can we just not revert or rework champions all the time? some people actually like the champions and do not want to constantly have to relearn everything about every champion because the "balance" team is bored and too incompetent to actually do anything right.

You see i'd actually agree with you, but skarner really needs to be reverted. Funnily enough skarner got reworked 3 times, so It won't be a problem to relearn him. Especially if that means he'll be brought back his best iteration.

SyrileMay 21, 20191 votes

{quoted}

You see i'd actually agree with you, but skarner really needs to be reverted. Funnily enough skarner got reworked 3 times, so It won't be a problem to relearn him. Especially if that means he'll be brought back his best iteration.

I like Skarner tho... But, I am not much of a JG though. But, I like him in the game as he is. :/

PredatoratorMay 22, 20191 votes

{quoted}

I like Skarner tho... But, I am not much of a JG though. But, I like him in the game as he is. :/

i like skarner too. i've been almost playing only him since late s4.

i've been going through all his reworks, and i could say, crystal venoma skarner is his best iteration, because it delivers the original character fantasy of being "the predator that once he gets to you, he sticks to you and never lets go" while also being healthy, and fun. You could lane wihtout sacrificing your passive, the ramp up mechanic on his Q was fun and rewarding.

I'm not against the spire believe me, they're a cool and unique concept. but it's not fair to skarner and his playerbase to get a rushed and poorly executed version of that passive "just because". Spire passive should've been postponed to his VGU, when the needed effort, time, and resources can be obtained, and it could become a cool passive.

but as it is right now, i want it to be reverted, especially when i see champs like rengar and zac get reverted while being less messed up.

SyrileMay 22, 20192 votes

{quoted}

i like skarner too. i've been almost playing only him since late s4.

i've been going through all his reworks, and i could say, crystal venoma skarner is his best iteration, because it delivers the original character fantasy of being "the predator that once he gets to you, he sticks to you and never lets go" while also being healthy, and fun. You could lane wihtout sacrificing your passive, the ramp up mechanic on his Q was fun and rewarding.

I'm not against the spire believe me, they're a cool and unique concept. but it's not fair to skarner and his playerbase to get a rushed and poorly executed version of that passive "just because". Spire passive should've been postponed to his VGU, when the needed effort, time, and resources can be obtained, and it could become a cool passive.

but as it is right now, i want it to be reverted, especially when i see champs like rengar and zac get reverted while being less messed up.

Honestly, I am hit and miss with the spire. They are a cool idea but definitely make him weaker in lane. But, I personally like the ulti. And his kit overall.

PredatoratorMay 22, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Honestly, I am hit and miss with the spire. They are a cool idea but definitely make him weaker in lane.

yeah that's my point. They are cool and really bring something unique on concept. but with the actualy execution they are more than a weight that holds skarner in jungle, in order to harness their power

But, I personally like the ulti. And his kit overall.

ulti is his trademark, i don't think they'll ever change it. maybe some tweaks, but i don't think it's ult needs anything big, unless to accomodate the rest of kit. i like his kit too. but look at his Q. it's so empty it becomes pointless the moment you don't buy a sheen.